Karaoke Forums

Timberlea,

That wasn't exactly my statement, but I agree with it. So, I'll try to make
"sense" out of that for you.

When I was single and out most every night of the week dancing to C&W music, I was attracted to places that had live bands. I really did not like to go where there were DJ's only.

Now please consider, a place with a DJ offers the opportunity to hear all of the latest songs and get in all of the latest line dances (yuck). I would likely be able to have any reasonable number of requests filled while listening to a myriad of professional singers singing music that was exactly on key and in tempo with how the song actually goes!

Why, then, would anyone logically avoid such an opportunity in order to listen to a local band play the same music week in and week out, with the same lead singer? Well there are lots of reasons that might make no "sense" after how I described the environment with the DJ. However, like preferring vanilla over chocolate ice cream.....

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO MAKE ANY SENSE to anyone but me!!!! And hearing the same karaoke singers over and over during the course of a show is not what I prefer; others might enjoy it to no end, but not me. In fact, I wouldn't enjoy it if I were one of the "handful" of singers!

So Bruce when you can present to me a web site or proof of a successful business then please do not insult my integrity by insinuating my word is no good. I just might have to crawl off my bar stool. For 4 years I have fought for the newbies against the corps laws and greed. I have given tech advise which I used to charge $100/hr. I do not play roles and wear my feelings with an honest and open outlook.

I am a man of my words and and a Gentleman. I would defend your mothers integrity with my life. If there are frictions here due to my posting while drunk I assure you if you meet me in person your impression would change in a heartbeat. There is a morning after when adults forget about the BS from the night before, forgive and start living real life again GROW UP...

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The KEY to a succesful Karaoke show and Great HOST is this

KNOW YOUR BAR
KNOW YOUR CROWD

This is the only way to maintain a succesfull show

Each VENUE is unique and brings in its own UNIQUE crowd.

If you take your show to 5 different venues and don't change a thing -- You may not have the same sucess at every venue.

Once I watched a tv court case, where a friend of a friend set a gig up for a backyard party. Through the friend, the KJ gave a fantastic price to the person throwing the party. Now from what was presented, after a few karaoke songs, the karaoke machine crashed, and the kj started playing music, and taking requests, and everyone danced for hours, and everyone seemed very happy with the way things went. She entertained for 8 hours for 200 bucks. and no complained that day. The next day the host called the KJ and wanted some or all ot the money back, since there had been virtually no karaoke. Cutting to the chase, the customer introduced the contract showing only the word karaoke, and the judge ruled, that since it wasn't karaoke/music, or karaoke and music, or the word music wasn't mentioned, the KJ had to give the woman the entire $200 back.....

we're getting OFF Topic here.

The TOPIC as stated by the OP, was about Only THREE singers.

You guys are just losing your dam minds! !

one sing-a dingy, two sing-a-dingy, and three sing-a-dingys......ah, back on topic..

But if you play dj music as well - even say every OTHER night mixed with the karaoke, then bill it as karaoke/dj. Why is that such a crime? People looking for strictly karaoke will appreciate it.

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It seems that some of the KJs here are just trying to double dip to maximize the amount of people that they can get to show up at their gigs. These KJs are well aware of the fact that if they advertise their shows as Karaoke Dance parties, a lot of the die hard singers just won't show up. By advertising it as just karaoke, those die hard singers show up only to be disappointed by the filler music and just don't return for a second visit because they feel they have been lied to. The best is when they KJ/DJ plays a dance set and NO ONE gets out on the dance floor. He's just trying to get the singers to stay as long as he can by dragging out the rotations with filler or he's just trying to play filler so he can hang out with his buddies outside having a cigarette break.......It's like when a karaoke manufacturer puts 2 good songs on a disc and the other 13 songs are crap. You have to put up with the crap to get what you really want........but now they have custom CDs so you don't have to buy the crap anymore.

Again, Bruce, go where you like and stay away from the places you don't. What is so difficult about that? Don't blame others because they don't like the same flavor of ice cream as you.

There are much bigger problems in this world, particularly the business world, than what you may want to label "bait and switch" karaoke. There, if you like the term, use it!

Why don't you tackle some of the really important problems being faced by many of us everyday, rather than moaning about karaoke shows where the host doesn't share the same objectives as you?

And BTW, you seem to keep posting either in the belief that you'll change someones mind or because you love to denigrate opposing viewpoints.

I really don't care how many negatives you can conjure up about KJ's like me and the type of show we run. .. I am proud of what I offer and provide.

Stop your moaning and be happy that there are, I assume, shows that you do like!

Now go use your time to find some really important challenges to grapple with!

There are many signs posted in the bar - One reads $.25 Wings Wednesday Night -Doesn't mean they don't also have cheesburgers --People who want wings can go there and get wings. There is a sign that reads KARAOKE SATURDAY NIGHT , it doesn't say ONLY KARAOKE , it just means that Karaoke will be offered for those singers who choose to sign up . If on Saturday 50 singers show up and the place is rocking with KARAOKE energy ... Then by all means KARAOKE NON STOP ..But on the nights when ONLY 3 singers show up out of 50 customers ..Then for Gosh sakes you have to use common sense and mix it up. UNLESS THE CROWD REALLY DIGS THESE 3 SINGERS...It's what I mean by KNOW YOUR CROWD and VENUE.
Those KJ's who refuse to change to meet the demands of the crowd will soon be looking for new work. If you don't have to change thats GREAT ...But those KJ's who say they will NEVER PLAY FILLER OR DANCE TUNES when more and more CUSTOMERS start to request and demand it will be looking for a new venue before long.

All your opinion, and if it works for you, that's fine. But I don't consider it the way to build a show. If you already have the clientele, and are entertaining them, you can throw about anything off the wall and have it work. But if you are trying to *start* a show without that crowd to begin with, I think you will fall flat on your face trying to do that.

Personally, I just don't go to shows that want me to listen to DJ music. I am not interested. In our area, apparently a lot of people agree because those shows don't survive. There are lots of long-running straight karaoke shows.

It does brown me off to show up for karaoke and be ready to sing and then have to wait for a half-hour of DJ music. So much so that we just usually pull our slips and leave.

I am not claiming the way I like it is the only way to do it at all. But if you are trying to go beyond 3 singers, I suggest that you let them sing. Eventually, the word gets out and more singers show up. The kind of singers that want to sing, and who can provide a regular core for a show. People who don't care whether they sing or not are rarely going to provide that base.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

A friend of mine who runs a karaoke show at the 111 ultra lounge was let go due to not enough singers..I mean i would show up and there might be 4 singers out of the 60 people in the bar but i also think the bar itself didnt try to promote it very well

Let's define the scenarios that might account for why there are only a few singers in attendance at a karaoke show:

SCENARIO I: It's a brand new show and not too many people have heard about it yet.

SCENARIO II: It's an established show that is just having an off night

SCENARIO III: It's an older show that is beginning to lose it's singers/following

NOW......

In which one of these scenarios should I, as a KJ, focus on or be concerned with the singers who did show up telling others how often they got to sing at my show?

And.. in which one of these scenarios should I be concerned about the singers who showed up telling others about how I played filler and dance music?

Clearly, all such discussions are of no concern to me if I am running an established show. Singers familiar with my show know what to regularly expect and must like the show or wouldn't be coming back!

If my show is losing customers, then I need to focus on why that is the case. I can't be concerned solely about what singers are telling others who are most likely already familiar with my show. I have to determine why people are not attending as they once had! And don't suggest that the decline is due to filler and/or dance music if those elements have been in play for any significant length of time at my show!

I hope the preceding has helped to lessen the confusion as to why some of us are unconcerned about what singers might tell other singers about our shows.
And IMO some of you greatly exaggerate the importance of what singers are telling people about the shows that use filler and/or dance music between singers!

Usaully the low amount is the exception for me, but there are factors that might cause it.
*weather
*just an off night
etc.

I usually get 17 to 20 singers a night total, not at one time although it has happened a few times.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

off nights are what I am talking about. Obviously a long term gig isn't going to keep you if you continually have low singer turnout, on top of low spending.

and yes, when I have a weird night, I switch things up.

The three singers that are singing will be able to sing FAR more than if there were more singers... so they can WAIT just ONE lousy mix song.

I don't consider this poor customer service. In fact, I'm trying my best to appeal to the whole bar. And trust me, those three singers won't care as they are getting up far more quickly than on a busier night. I won't make them wait TOO long, but yeah, I'm going to appeal to the WHOLE bar on a night like this.

There's no perfect equation, but I can tell you any singer that would throw a brucefan fit about what I as doing... don't let the door hit you in the azz on the way out!

It sure is funny how everyone else's opinions are valid but my opinions of a good show are nothing more than "a fit". Lonnie is in complete agreement with me on this subject but NO ONE says that he is throwing a fit. If you play filler music at your show and it works for you, GO FOR IT. If there is a show down the street that doesn't play filler music, that is the show that I will recommend to the other singers that I know. If those THREE MONOTONOUS singers happen to be ME and a couple of my friends and you feel compelled to play that one filler song.....you will then be able to play MISTER DJ for the rest of the night because my friends and I will be at the karaoke bar down the street that doesn't play filler music AT ALL and you will soon be out of a job. It's not a fit. It's a decision based on the way we are being forced to WAIT for no reason at all. Will all of the non-singers leave if you don't play that song? I doubt it. If your filler song happens to be a song that one of those three monotonous singers had planned on singing, you've laid an egg in another way. Maybe it's one of the few songs that a particular person knows how to sing and now the guy doesn't want to sing it because you just played the original. KJ might also do this one too when he decides to put himself in the rotation for the sole purpose of dragggggggggggggging out the rotation to make it look to the owner that there are more people there than there really are. Let's face it. If the OWNER hears that one lousy singer too often and too soon after just hearing him, he begins to blame the KJ for not having a big enough of a following to keep that lousy singer from singing too often. In this situation the KJ is using the filler music to delay the bad singer from getting up too often and pissing off the bar owner. The result of that ruse is that the two good singers also get pushed back by the filler music. The result of that decision is the two good singers going to the show down the street without the filler music and all you have left is ONE BAD singer at your show for the couple of weeks you have left at that gig.

Eric, you seem to have an axe to grind with all of the singers. You think that they are all cheap skates to begin with so "screw 'em if I wanna play filler music....they don't spend enough anyway". You're are entitled to run your show anyway you see fit. I would think that your obvious disdain for your local singing crowd is the reason why you can't bring in the spenders that you so desperately need to build a successful show.
Matt, I think that I spend as much money as any one of those people sitting at the bar just listening. I also add something to your KARAOKE show by being a pretty good singer. Your decision to appease one of those people sitting at the bar who adds nothing to your show that causes you to lose a customer that adds something to your show seems to be counter productive. That filler song you play is no different that you as the KJ singing two songs in a row as far as I'm concerned. If the lady sitting at the bar wants to hear I WILL SURVIVE so badly, let her fill out a slip and sing it. If she wants to dance to it, let her go to the bar down the street that is having DANCE NIGHT.

I rarely play the original of a song I have karaoke... in fact, I'll often make the comment "sure wish THIS was available on karaoke". I no longer play the song "Voices" by Russ Ballard, because now it's on karaoke.

I'm laughing my butt off, Bob. You're saying if there's the three of you (you and two of your friends) that you'd leave if I played ONE filler music song, yet if there were eight or twelve singers, you wouldn't.

I'm trying to appeal to the bar, and yet you prove again that you don't care at all about the success of the show, you only care about yourself.

and you say I have a problem because I'm playing ONE lousy song on a slow night? Especially when the venue LIKES it that way?

Sheesh!

You continue to pull up examples that aren't part of the original situation. Now you're making it like it's the KJs fault for only having three singers... again, I pointed out we're talking about an off-night. Something the venue owner is WELL aware of.

You really should just put your money where your mouth is and run your own show. That's how I finally became a KJ... was tired of the shows I was going to sucking big time. I began to buy my own discs, and then finally said "What the F" and did it.

Since you're so knowledgable about it, go for it.

I believe a good solution to appease eveyone would be to play a KARAOKE-FILLER TRACK and invite EVERYONE in the bar to sing along WITHOUT a microphone.

That way everyone is singing and both types of customers are happy.

I usually start my show with "Build Me Up Buttercup" karaoke track and make my introduction, staff on duty, and drink specials.

I have found over the years that most people at the venue sing along with it and other popular songs from Sinatra and The Beatles, ot at least mouthe-the-words.

It encourages everyone to sing along and we don't lose the karaoke diehards because of too much filler .

Bruce

Again, your approach to any debate is to show disdain for those with differing opinions. Why do I say so:

- You keep insisting on reiterating your disdain for shows with filler music; that everything should center around the singers and you'll go elsewhere if it doesn't (so as I suggested - go... please)

- And again, Bruce, you need to try to put someone down who disagrees with you. Well, FYI, I have never once complained about the amount of money spent at my shows. However, my disdain for non-spending singers was shared with this forum during a period when I was simply singer, like yourself, who found too many singers (like yourself) more focused on their opportunity to sing than anything else. And in the process, too many of them forgot that someone has to pay for the entertainment. Why shouldn't it be the singers who are benefiting most from it? So, while I was dropping $30 or more every night, some self-centered singers who couldn't remember to spend any money were busily counting how many times they could get to sing! And the number of such singers at the very small shows I attended often number 3-4 singers out of a dozen!
Are you one of those type of singers, Bruce? And, Bruce, as a "singer" you have no more right to have a good time than does the woman at the bar who doesn't sing that you were so disdainful of in your last post. And who knows, she might spend twice as money as you at that bar?

Oh, and I don't believe that Lonnie actually agreed with you. Though I don't understand your need to be agreed with? It's a very simple matter --- different approaches/different opinions.

Clearly, Bruce, for you differences from what you believe are not permissible!
You can't accept that the policy of the local KJ is his/her decision. Right or wrong, how does it help you to debate it, endlessly? Make your point and move on. Go elsewhere if it bothers you.

My second biggest gripe has always been frivolous rotations. Some KJ's obviously have a different viewpoint than mine. Some will take bribes (some might need the money). I vote with my $$$$$, not my mouth! It's that simple. I have only told one KJ over the years that I avoid his show because of how he handles the rotation, and I told him only because he asked!

If there are no dancers we call up the next singer. Our rotations usually run about 1-20 singers. Thats with a crowd that ranges from 75 to over 100. I have been there a year and a half and get $175/night for four hours. The till ranges from $2k to $3k. This format usually brings in more than band or DJ Fri nights.. Karaoke all but died in this area and there isnt that many singers around.

During the Greeley stampede with all the concerts it can get dead. Also we have to compete with many other events.

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