Karaoke Forums

I recently bought a Pocket Songs disc with 10 Bruce Springsteen songs on it. The disc had NO graphics, just music. It took me quite a bit of time to create the cdg files for these ten songs but it was well worth the effort. Obviously these ten songs with graphics have now been BURNED to a CDR so I can sing these songs when I go out to karaoke. If the KJ can't or won't play my Springsteen disc, why should I support his show?? The KJ is doing NOTHING for me. I have dozens of karaoke tracks that I have made from instrumental versions of songs that I found on I-tunes. If the KJ won't play them, I'll find one who will. It's quite simple. Make the customer happy or the customer leaves and finds a KJ that will satisfy his needs. If I spend hours making songs that I want to sing, why should I have to go to a show and sing something else when there are shows right down the road that will fulfill my singing needs?

While I don't play outside discs, if the requester is a regular I will try and get the song for them. If it was a custom created disc, I might be tempted to borrow the disc and import it. Not sure if it is legal or not though.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

I don't think i've had a night that someone hasn't brought me at LEAST one disc to play. It is a normal night for me. Sometimes have had over 10 customer discs on occasion in one rotation. I bought a little cd holder that will stand up loose discs so they aren't just laying around & a little holder for those in jewel cases.
Kind of nice as well if other people show interest in that song, then i'll be out picking up that disc or song very soon after.

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Well, just for those who might have missed this--- I play discs, I believe that KJ's should accommodate guests with discs, and I understand all of the reasons for people wanting to use their own discs for particular songs, including the expense and/or effort that was involved in making said discs available.

Now, here's where I really get lost and I alluded to this point in my last post. While most everyone else at any particular karaoke show is happily using the show's tracks, do those of you who require your own discs be played ever make an effort to sing what is in the host's catalog on any regular basis? And, again, I have had people just hand me a disc and never look at my catalog (which denotes versions of my songs for those who have preferences)

And while everyone else at the show is comfortable selecting from the catalog's choices, what prevents others from experiencing the same level of satisfaction?

I guess what I don't understand, in short, since it has never hindered me from enjoying myself at a karaoke show where my discs couldn't be used, is why IT IS A PROBLEM if the show WILL NOT play your discs? Again, I understand the preference for having your personal discs used, I don't fully comprehend the REQUIREMENT that it be so!

PS: I think there is something important to learn, as a KJ, to fully understand what motivates singers and why. And interestingly, there is one poster to this thread who once numbered himself among those who required a show play his discs, and no longer does.

And, again, I have experienced singers with discs who don't even look at my catalog. Why is that?

If I'm in the mood for a steak, I don't want to be offered a hot dog or a piece of fish. If I just made a new song, I want to sing THAT SONG. I have often picked out songs from the KJ's book. I am always learning new songs. I don't expect the kJ to own every song in the world so I bring the songs that I want to sing. I am not demanding that the KJ spring for the discs that I prefer. I'm willing to pay for the music I want and I'm willing to spend hours making songs that I want to sing. Why should I go out and spend 40 to 50 dollars at a karaoke venue where the KJ won't accommodate me? I remember when the first karaoke disc came out with the song "JERSEY GIRL" by Bruce Springsteen. I ordered it and couldn't wait to sing it. Thankfully at the time, there weren't many PC based shows so I was able to sing it at every karaoke venue that I would go to. When a new song comes out today, the situation is quite different because there are so many 100% digital shows. If I don't have anything new that I feel like singing, I might visit a PC 100% digital show but that is usually not the case. There are 3 songs on the new Pop Hits Monthly Country disc that I'm learning right now. I want to sing those 3 songs the next time I go to karaoke so I will be careful not to go to a 100% digital show.

I don't play discs because my rack isn't big enough to hold a disc player. I'd have to take out a componant to fit my dvd player in and there isn't a componant I can live without. I can't use a bigger rack as the rack I have now is heavy enough for me- I have a bad shoulder and any more weight would pull it out. I am not going to deal with two racks because the height of the rack is high enough for me to access my laptop when standing and I don't have room on the table for two racks. I also refuse to wear out my cd rom drive on something that has never happened to me.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Again, Bruce, you have explained your preference for having your discs played at a show. I still don't understand why shows that can't play yours and the discs of some others are unacceptable to some of you?

And I can't relate to Bruce's "Jersey Girl" analogy. Bruce, was it a requirement that you sing it at every show you went to? And for how long were you anticipating singing it at every show?

Simply I must ask: What if every show becomes computerized and every KJ gets tired of lugging the extra equipment? I stopped carrying any EXTRA equpment and use only my computer to accomplish the job. Diafel has valid reasons why she won't load up her computer with more running software. I respect those reasons, but them in my decision to use my computer for playing discs.

And what, I must ask, will a singer do if no show around him/her ever again affords the opportunity to sing karaoke using our own discs?

And wonder what the "original" karaoke singers at shows using discs did when there wasn't easy access to purchasing karaoke discs and the singers HAD to rely upon the show's catalog!

Or, what did karaoke singers do before they had a home computer, the software and the knowledge to burn their own discs?

Just wondering?

First of all eric, welcome back. That sure was a short vacation.

Not being from New Jersey, I don't expect you to understand, eric. I expected to be able to sing "JERSEY GIRL" at every show that I frequent at least ONCE. I am always learning new songs and after a short while they get put on the shelf to make way for newer songs.

As far as all shows going digital, I would expect the KJ's that run those shows to be able handle a flash drive with the customer's songs. I would also expect the KJ's to be able to play those songs without "stealing" them. If I were one of the KJ's in a given area that was saturated with digital only KJ's, I would advertise my show as a disc friendly show and bring either a karaoke machine or add software to my PC so I could play a customer's disc. I would try to cater to ALL of my potential customers.

Karaoke singers are only limited by the amount of options available. When there were only laser discs, singers were limited by the KJ's discs unless they wanted to go out an buy a laser disc of their own. If your local KJ was slow in upgrading to CDG discs and a CDG player, you were still limited to his laser disc collection until the guy down th eroad bought a CDG player and then he probably had your business if you were the type to buy your own CDG's. Once again, the KJ that caters to ALL of the potential singing crowd will probably have more singers at his show, all other things being equal. Now we move onto the Digital Only(vanilla) vs. Digital + CDG(vanilla + chocolate) shows. People who like vanilla will have twice the options as the people who like chocolate. The person only providing vanilla has cut out a certain part of his customer base by being one dimensional. Given a choice of the lesser of two evils; I would choose a CDG based show that played filler music before I would go to a 100% digital show that didn't play filler music.

As far as your last hypothetical scenario; before singers had the ability to work magic with their computers, they were stuck singing whatever the KJ decided was a good purchase.

One more analogy. Hopefully this one won't go over anyone's head.

When computer manufacturers began making PC's with USB2 connections, USB1 devices still had to work via that connection, albeit at the slower USB1 speed. In other words these USB2 connections had to be backwards compatible. That's what these 100% digital shows should be. PC shows are USB2 but they should be able to handle USB1(CDG).

JUST MY OPINIONS. Don't anybody file a law suit over them.

Am I the only person familiar with the phrase; THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT?

I guess you are, Bruce?

But more germane to the current discussion... I still have no insight into what's wrong with shows that don't play customer's discs? Again, I know why there are those who would like to have their discs played by the KJ! But... I don't get the need for a customer to have their discs played at every show every time they go to sing karaoke?

As I suggested, there was a time when customers had no discs to take with them and, I believe, there will come a time when most shows will be computerized and most shows will not play customer's discs.

So, I wonder what those who expect their discs to be played at every karaoke shows will do then? Will they stop going to Karaoke, altogether?



BTW: I moved to Ft Lauderdale in 1991 from Wayne, NJ and I have heard "Where the Boys Are" sung only twice, by the same karaoke singer, since I arrived!

When I travel especially out of country, I like to bring my Canadian discs. Chances are the host most likely won't have the songs and it is a way to educate the listeners to our music and more importantly, enjoy it.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Bruce Springsteen songs are normally very well received at karaoke venues in NJ....as are songs by Southside Johnny and The Asbury Jukes and songs by Bon Jovi. I want to sing these songs because I think the audience will enjoy them more than if I just sang another Elvis Presley song that they hear every week by someone. I don't know about anyone else but I enjoy hearing a variety of songs when I go to karaoke. That is the reason that I like to go to different karaoke venues instead of the same ones week after week. I think that the audience will really appreciate hearing a song that they have probably NEVER heard before at their favorite karaoke bar. If the KJ can't play the song, both I and the audience miss out on something.

KJS THAT OFFER LESS OPTIONS will END UP HAVING LESS SINGERS!

-it's just TOO BAD that they will NEVER KNOW that that one person who came in and realiized that the kj didn't play discs, ran an ugly rotation, had a very limited inferior brand selection, and didn't adjust sound levels, WON'T ever return with 100 of their friends, neighbors, cousins, uncles, aunts, etc.. and generate more money for the bar, and ultimately, more money for the kj- short and long term.

I can understand if someone runs a show and NEVER has singers that bring their own discs, (to not have a player) but if you offer LESS than the guy down the street, his business WILL GROW...while you're wondering why people don't come to yours...and blame it on the management, weather, wife,..etc...anyone but yourself.

sorry...just wanted to state the obvious...which obviously isn't obvious to everyone.

Btw, Bruce is winning 4-1 on my scorecard. Sorry Eric, but ya can't chastise someone for having their own preferences or CHANGE what they like. It is what it is.

Okay

Bruce's last post adds some dimension to the thinking of, at least one poster - they want to sing something different and something that the audience will enjoy.

I can understand such thinking and accept that audience approval could be a factor that motivates folks to bring their own discs.

But, again, why can't that goal be accomplished by singing a song from the KJ's catalog? As we have discussed on this forum before, the general thinking is that of all the songs published for karaoke, a book of 3000 properly selected tunes would most likely suffice for any show. The additional tunes most of us have in our catalogs came along with the disc we purchased in order to get the tracks that we intentionally chose to purchase.

So, most shows offer anywhere from 3000 to 12000 additional tracks that no one sings with any regularity. Why not pick a song from those typically unsung tracks in order to please the audience?

I know there are many gems "out there" because I often go out of my way to find them. My partner is now singing "Right Down The Line" by Gerry Rafferty because of my suggesting it. I've never heard anybody before sing that at karaoke!

I like singing "Sha La La La La", by the Venga Boys. I've never heard anyone else do that number! So, if singing material not typically heard by the audience is a criteria in selecting a song... I think most of us have catalogs with such gems!

In fact, there have only been a handful of discs that I have ever bought because of tracks I personally wanted to sing. One was a Chartbuster country disc with two songs I wanted and the other was the Sam Cooke disc SC released in late 2006 which contained some tracks never previously released for karaoke.

So, it quite hard for me to relate to such a strong attachment to certain, specific tracks. I am always looking for something new for both me (and the audience) in my own catalog. And... I don't see an end any time soon to that pursuit!

Ya know, I was sitting in my car one night during the summer here in Wisconsin and I fiddling with the radio. I picked up some Canadian station doing some French language music. I didn't understand the song, but I sure enjoyed it. But I digress, all things being equal (sound, selection, good host) I like my karaoke bars to have lotsa wimmin in them. I really don't like singing at a sausage fest.

Eric, not every one is just like you. You have bought a handful of songs that you specifically wanted to sing. I have bought thousands of songs that I specifically want to sing. I have created dozens of karaoke tracks from instrumental versions of songs that I found on I-Tunes. I've created a bunch of karaoke tracks that were made using midi files because that's all I could find. Do you think I went through all of that just so I could sing them at home? I obviously have a HUGE appetite for new material to sing and not every KJ will be able to give me what I'm looking for so I bring it myself. A new Sunfly disc recently came out with Captain Fantastic by Elton John. I couldn't wait to get it and I sang it at karaoke the first night I got it. If I hadn't received that disc in the mail that day I probably would have stayed home that night. New discs with new songs cause people to go out and spend money at karaoke bars because they want to SHARE their LOVE of MUSIC. I don't want to just pick a song at random because it's different. I want to sing songs THAT I ALREADY KNOW THAT I LIKE. You are free to pick your songs anyway that you like Eric, but I shouldn't have to do it the same way that you do.

If that is the case, then the TERRORISTS WIN!

ah, but JR

I do accommodate playing customer discs and am not debating with anyone whether KJ's should play customer's discs. So... I don't know what you are keeping score over?

I have simply said that I do respect the decisions of KJ's who don't play customer discs. Why?
For one, I am certainly not going to lecture others about something I must assume that they have already thought out to their own satisfaction.
Two, it is condescending and presumptions to insist that KJ"s who don't play customer discs are losing business; they may or may not be. One can't know what is happening in a local market that they do not participate in. And.... we've learned by now no two markets are exactly the same!

In fact, JR, some members have already stated, as does my partner, they never receive any requests to play customer discs. So, acknowledging their experience should, unto itself leave those who insist such KJ's are losing business reason to re-evaluate such assertions. Personally, I've given up trying to get my partner to play customer discs and I can assure you he is none the worse for it. He works 5 nights a week!

And, JR, while I assume I can bring as many discs with me as I like to your show, and I have several hundred blank discs and three programs to burn tracks with I won't and don't need to bring any. And why is that?

So.. that takes me back to my focus.... why are there those who cannot enjoy a karaoke show where they can't get there discs played? Plain and simple question!

I hunger for new music - And new artists. The majority (HUGE majority) of shows I pop in on will NOT carry stuff that I like, they just don't. Or they wait until it's been out in public for 6 mos or a year before they get it. I don't expect people to get 'specialty' music for me, which is why it is important that a venue play my discs. I don't bring burns, I bring originals that have been ripped to my computer one time, and then used sparingly at other people's shows.

Generally speaking, the ratio of male to female songs available is 4:1 or maybe even greater than that. Guys, you need to think about that and recognize the dilemma that creates for us. And most guy hosts are NOT thinking female singers when they order music (SOME DO, don't get me wrong...) When I was buying a lot of discs I would enter them into my book and marvel that the industry is so weighted in the male direction...so that really leaves female singers no choice but to get NEW music when it comes out ... or at least DIFFERENT music. There is only so much Benatar, Heart, Joan Jett, Fleetwood Mac, Sheryl Crow, and Bonnie Raitt out there. I know, there's a lot more female singers than that, but the ratio is way out of whack.

I go to sing for enjoyment and to be on the other side of the mic. My preference is a personable host who pays attention to mixing, doesn't spend too much time chit-chatting on the mic between singers; who doesn't do a lot of "inside joking" with regulars; who may come out and chat for a minute between singers, and who has good equipment. A good book to me is an indicator of the quality of a show, no doubt...a book that is an inch thick precludes my even opening it up. Good mics are important to me, as is the ability to judiciously add effects. I don't like to sing dry - and nobody should. If I go to a room where the regulars are too 'cliquey' and ignore new singers for whatever reason, that is not pleasant. In fact, as a host I watch for that at my shows and will often ask a regular or a group of regulars to initiate applause without my chiding so that a new attendee feels welcome. I seldom have to ask, they seem to do that automatically.

I don't want to have to drive 40 miles to sing, and I want to sing more than twice in a night. A nice stage with lighting is nice, too, but rare. Monitors for the non-singers to watch is a necessity in my mind because it keeps people engaged, though again this is not usually an issue at my shows. A VERY high percentage of people attending our shows are singers. Newbies will walk in and see how long the rotation is, look around and scratch their heads, and say, "Everybody must be singing, then?" Yup, that's the way it is. But I tell them not to worry, they will be up in 3-4 singers, depending on the way the night has gone. They always appreciate that, and so do I when I go to a new show. It's the little things....

There you go again, Bruce.

I am not telling you what I do not in hopes that you will emulate me, but in order for you appreciate why I don't understand what the thinking is of those who must have their own discs. If you don't know where I'm coming from, you can't understand why I ask the question (over and over).

So, simply, put. I recognize that you put a lot of effort into making your own tracks for unavailable material and/or purchasing newly released material.

So, I ask again, what's wrong with the available material? What do you put yourself through all of the work of creating your own discs --- you're surely not getting paid for it!

Now, if you request new material and a KJ won't invest in it - that's wrong. A KJ can't fill every request but he/she can fill the reasonable requests of good regulars. Of course, if the songs requested are obscure, the KJ might balk at such a purchase.

And I have been to shows that haven't added a song in years. While that is wrong, IMHO, that doesn't bother me. I do, however, notice it and respect and understand why someone else would avoid that show!

And once again, I am not saying there is anything wrong with the expectations you have set for yourself when you sing karaoke.... I just know that in life you don't always get exactly what you had hoped for.... so.... I don't understand why you can't allow yourself to enjoy a well-run karaoke show where your discs are not welcomed, considering that there are other people there who are enjoying themselves? At least, check out the catalog before you turn up your nose and leave!

Karen

Very interesting observation about the ratio of male to female singers. That was particularly true and was pointed out to me in the 80's about country music. Today, there are much more female country hits as a percentage of total country hits than back at that time. But... still much more males than females!

I've never walked into McDonalds and asked for a HOT DOG. I know when I walk in the door that asking for a HOT DOG would be a waste of time. A 100% digital KJ who has been at a bar for a while has his regular singers trained to know better than to ask. Someone like me who likes to sing from my own discs would not go to a show that is 100% digital and ask because I would know ahead of time what the answer would be. If I happen to go to a show for the first time not knowing what format the KJ used, I would ask if the KJ could play my discs even if the KJ was using a computer. If I was gonna stay there for the entire evening because I was with friends, I would find songs in the book to sing. If my friends decided to go there again, I'd have to base my decision on returning on how much fun I had the last time I was there. If it was just okay, I'd probably decide not to go back. There are times when I just want to sing what I want to sing. If the KJ doesn't have it, I'll go somewhere else.

I go to the place that will satisfy my singing needs. If you don't want to play my CDG's, you are telling me that you don't want or need me as a customer so I will find a KJ that would enjoy playing my discs and listening to me sing my song choices