Karaoke Forums

Bruce

Why do you so personalize everything? No one is actually telling you that they don't need or want you as a customer. You may rationally conclude that they don't want ANYbody as a customer who brings their own discs.... BUT... I don't agree with that conclusion either. I, not having a victim complex, would simply say if I were in your shoes that their business model doesn't include me.

I used to own a tanning salon. Well... for many reasons I could not provide every type of tanning equipment available at the time. I would not call it rational for someone to deduce that because I didn't have the type of equipment they wanted that I didn't want their business..... In fact, I wanted everyone's business! Some people decided, while my equipment wasn't what they preferred to use the equipment anyway. Sometimes I made them offers they couldn't refuse to try my equipment. Others, in spite of my offers, wouldn't consider my equipment and went elsewhere. Most who took me up on my offer continued using my equipment.

Remember, this very important point ----- the bottom line was that my equipment would provide the customer with a good dark, even tan, in a reasonable number of sessions, at a reasonable price. Why did some not accept that reality and insist on the particular piece of equipment that was much more expensive to use? I never really understood that and I still don't understand why people intentionally avoid shows that don't play their discs.

I have been to various shows where they didn't play discs and I have stayed for the evening. I usually just don't go back. If it is the only show in town on a given night and all of my friends are going to be there, then I would go. EVERYONE has different musical tastes. I like some Garth Brooks songs but there are some that I don't like. You are suggesting that I should learn some songs in the KJ's book so when I go back the next time, I won't need to sing the songs on my CDG's that I actually enjoy singing. That makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE TO ME. There are thousands of OLD country songs that I have no interest in learning how to sing. I want to learn how to sing songs that make a connection with me the first time I hear them. That is how music motivates me and inspires me. If you don't get it, There's nothing I can do to help you in that regard. I don't want to sing every song. I want to sing every song that I enjoy singing and that is within my singing range. I practice until I think the songs are presentable and then I sing them in public. Most people, I won't say ALL any more(Thank You Sevarid), enjoy my singing and my song choices. I just made a couple of home made Sinatra songs and the older folks at the places I sing at seemed to really like them. It wouldn't have been as much fun to sing MY WAY & FLY ME TO THE MOON instead. Been there, done that.

Why do I personalize everything?????? Maybe because you are obviously directing most of your posts lately directly towards me. I answer your queries with how I feel about the subject being discussed. Even when you don't mention my name, it's obvious to everyone who you are referring to. It really seems to bother you that you can't understand me and my opinions, so much so that you declared that you were leaving this board only to return in very short order, which I expected. The most dramatic people always do that. I'm flattered by your fixation with me.

I'm a fussy guy. I like what I like. I have never been to a French Restaurant. I have never been to a restaurant that serves Indian food either. I like Italian food and Sea Food. No one, not even a beautiful woman would be able to get me to even try frogs leg or escargot. It's just not going to happen.

I am what I am and that's all that I am, I'm BruceFan the singing Man

You seem determined to try to change me, Eric. You might as well give up now. I don't need to be fixed. I'm an old dog that doesn't want to be taught any new tricks.

I think I'll pop in a few cents:


1 &2) This one's not gonna happen for at least a few decades. I'm not the only die-hard. Even the discs that I own will stay fresh, between a JFJ pro resurfacer and a Microboards stand alone burner that can re-master.

Again, MOST of the shows in my area are disc based, and all but two PC shows that I can think of accept customer discs.


3&4) If singers MUST sing from a catalogue, then thay MUST. But what we we do includes customer service. If I CAN do something that will make a patron happy, including using his/her disc, then I will. Of course it's easier for the host not to, but why have even one usatisfied customer, who may go out and tell 10 possible NEW customers that I woulndn't accomodate him?


All that being said, an answer to your prior post. Some singers are so comfortable with their discs that they just don't care what's in the the catalogue, but that's not limited to "disc-bringers". I have some singers who DON'T bring discs but sing the same 3 or 4 songs every time. I DON'T think it's good that this happens, but I do agree that it does.


The bottom line is that whether PC or Disc based, if we can offer something that adds customers to the venue ( and keep us getting paid), then there really is no need to question WHY- just do it..

It's not a matter of right or wrong or "best", it's just a matter of customer service....

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I don't know that what you want and what the typical catalog offers is mutually exclusive? And if you went to a show and looked through the catalog, which is what I do, you might, as I do, find songs you can "connect with". So, what you and I look for first and foremost in a song is no different

And you have implied that they are and that I am insensitive to the following:


I never said anything about what you should select to sing from a catalog or how you should make you decision. And I don't believe that you can't find songs in KJ's catalogs that you can enjoy singing.... OR---that you can only enjoy singing the songs you select totally on your own exclusive of any KJ's catalog!

You know Bruce.... here is what I am hearing. To paraphrase, Dr Scott Peck from his book "The Road Less Traveled"...

The doctor was counseling a female patient who felt unhappy and was going on and on about being stuck on a military base in the Phillipines all day, while her husband was at work.

The doctor presented and discussed all of the activities (social, educational, voluntary, religious) that were available to her on the base. And.... she had reasons for each and everyone being unacceptable to her

The doctor suggested, as a last resort, that she take the car and get out beyond the base. The patient explained that she didn't have a driver's license. The doctor suggested that she should learn to drive and get a license and venture beyond the base. The patient then provided all of the reasons that was a bad idea including how badly the Filipinos drove and how dangerous it would be to drive on those roads....

Ah, Joe,

You, too, miss the point. I don't have a problem obliging such customers... I built my "rig" to do so when I started out in business.

The point you are missing, what I am asking is:
Why are there customers who do not give themselves permission to enjoy shows where they can't rely on their discs...So, it's not that I can play their discs and won't... it's that they'll leave a show that can't and won't. Some won't even check the catalog to see if their preferred tracks are there or, perhaps, something else they can sing.

True, we have people singing the same 3 songs over and over... I understand that...
But... those customers wouldn't tell you that you don't want them as customers if they came to your show for the first time and didn't find those three tracks. And... I bet they'll find something else to sing!

And, joe, don't get hung up in your opinions based solely on what's going on in your locale. I can only think of two shows around here that are still using discs!

Once again I will have to personalize my response since Eric has asked me a direct question.

I have enough things that interest me to keep me happy. I am able to find enough karaoke shows that will play my discs. I have been to 4 different karaoke shows in the last week. Only one of them was 100% digital. I won't go back there on a regular basis but might pop in once in a very blue moon. I took my daughter and grandson to an ITALIAN restaurant the other night. I didn't feel like I missed out on anything because we didn't go to a French Restaurant. If my daughter has a hankering for French food, her husband can take her.

I am not unhappy. I go to places that I like and avoid the places that would make me unhappy. You are not a shrink, and certainly not my shrink, so please stop trying to fix something that isn't broken.

You keep on doing things your way and I'll keep doing things my way, OKAY? You're spitting into the wind here.

Nah, I didn't miss it, and I'm not knocking you. When I go out I couldn't care less if the host can use a disc or not- I actually go to watch others..

What I said was if one CAN accomodate, do it. If one can't, then he can't . No biggie.

As for why customers can't give themselves permission to try new things- We're not the Dr. Phil Show. Who knows? Insecurity? I don't believe it MATTERS, as long as they have a good time. Oh sure, I'll try to jolly the "repeat" singers into trying something new, and sometimes I'm successful- But if I'm not, then I'm going to do it their way.

A host at another show uses his PC to sample his singers, that plays it back between singers. I got one of his patrons who gave me a hard time about not doing the same. Well, that put me in the same boat as you. I generally don't carry the equipment to do it. We do what we CAN with what we carry, but don't sweat the small stuff.

The flip side is that I'm sure some of YOUR singers come back from another show and tell you that they didn't like the other guy because they are used to YOUR way, or YOUR versions. It all evens out.

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

So, to BFFL and others who find it a unacceptable when a show can't/won't play your discs....I offer this food for thought

I believe, and it's just an opinion, based upon what I have seen locally.... fewer and fewer shows will be playing customer's discs around here in the near future. And while those very few might still account for a dozen or so shows (or less), that doesn't mean that you will enjoy any of those shows.

As for me, as a KJ... I will always play customer's discs...NO PROBLEM

As for you singers who are intransient about frequenting places that won't play your discs, what will you do when there are few if any of those places left? And what if the only place left that will do so is overpriced, filthy, has inadequate equipment, an arbitrary singing rotation adjusted for bribes, waiters with b/o, and no attention paid to the mix for any singer other than the KJ? What would you do then?

Not likely to happen? Maybe not... but if it comes to that, it won't phase me in the least because I can enjoy any place that offers karaoke; they don't have to play my discs!

Joe,

You lost me.. which "same boat" as to equipment are we in?

If some things I have said were confusing I'll rephrase it.
I used to carry a deck, along with an extra external CDRom drive. So I could play discs in my laptop drive, the CDRom drive or on the deck. I stopped carrying the deck and the external drive. I still play CD's and DVD's directly on the laptop drive.

In fact, getting more specific, I have some DVD's tracks that I don't have on any CDG. And to play those tracks I have to take out the DVD and pop it into my laptop. Now... that's a pain loading up, but I do it!

Eric, why do you make a point of being able to play a customer's disc? Please, let me hazard a guess......You want to please a customer who may bring in one of his own discs so he will hopefully become a regular customer??? Well, I'M THAT GUY.

This is something about your show that I think all KJs should do if they would like to add more singers to their following. I'm telling you that you do something well and others should emulate you in that regard. Why are you trying to defend something that you don't even do yourself? Is it just to engage me in a fruitless debate?

When I go to a digital show that can also play discs, I feel like the KJ wants me and people like me at their shows. If the KJ makes no effort to accommodate singers like me, I have to assume that he doesn't need or want me coming back to his show. That particular KJ has the "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY ATTITUDE" That is what makes me feel that he would rather I go somewhere else. If he wanted me to return, he'd be able to accommodate me and others like me. A small DVD player that also plays CDGs are relatively inexpensive and they take up very little space. Maybe people like me should have to bring our own CDG players with cables to hook into the KJ's board so we can sing the songs that we love to sing?

Bruce,

Excellent question. Perhaps I am just playing devils advocate? Nah

1) I do believe what you prefer in a show will soon be unavailable here in south Fl. And things you find in one place can soon end up everywhere. When I joined the forum back in 2006, very few KJ"s were computerized -- both on the forum and locally. I predicted that would quickly change, but some disagreed. Today, 3 years later, the disc show is the rarity.

2) Most singers have no requirement for a KJ to play their discs. I have discs, but don't require them being played as a prerequisite for enjoying a karaoke show. Why are there those who cannot enjoy themselves without singing to their own discs?

3) And while I am trying to understand this reality, I have been unsuccessful in doing so! I have yet to understand why a very small minority can't enjoy a show that doesn't accommodate playing their discs?

4) And while I keep repeating my question!my simple and direct question. I feel that the answer(s) I have been provided amount to saying.... I only enjoy singing along with my discs because I can't enjoy singing to anything else. And I ask - Why? Why do you only enjoy singing to your discs and why can't you enjoy singing songs of your choosing from a catalog?

I think that is a pretty straightforward and direct explanation of where I am at.

If I go out and buy a Corvette, I want to drive it as much as possible. I don't want to drive my neighbors Cadillac or Lexus. I buy karaoke songs with the same feeling in mind. I can sing songs all night long without singing even ONE of my songs but it's not what I PREFER to do. I like the idea that no one knows what song I will sing when I walk into a karaoke bar.

If my Corvette was in the shop getting repaired, I'd be happy to drive a different car but I'd be anxious to get back behind the wheel of my sports car.

I buy MY favorite songs so I could share them at karaoke by singing them. The QUALITY of the tracks are very important to me. I prefer to not look like a fool trying to sing a song that is nothing like what I'm used to singing. I don't want to feel like I've been "punked" when I go out to sing. I have gone to the trouble of re-doing the cdg files on some songs because the words didn't come up on the screen fast enough for me to be able to read them in time to sing the song properly. Should I not be able to sing that song because some KJ has decided that his version of the song is "GOOD ENOUGH FOR HIM SO IT SHOULD BE GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME TOO"?
I've made a handful of song parodies as well. I guess the KJ gets to determine whether or not I can get to sing those songs too? MAYBE HE CAN........ONCE!

While I happily play customers' discs why do I respect the decision of KJ's who don't?

Why?

1) I don't know that many songs, particularly new hip hop songs. I fear finding myself in a situation where a customer has a track that contains vulgarities while I am at a family restaurant and about to loose my job as a result of lyrics I didn't know were on that track.

2) I don't like to deal with burnt tracks that won't play on my equipment, and that has happened too many times. Fortunately, in each case, I had the track!

3) Like Diafel, I am concerned about over-taxing my systems resources. Just recently my hosting software was locking up on me. I finally determined the cause for that. It was quite a pain when it happened for the first time in the middle of a show.

4) I (ego) would like to think that the collection I have put together will provide enjoyment for everyone, rather than find out somebody doesn't think much of any of my selection and must pick from a completely different universe. Therefore, what I have so carefully selected and paid thousands for is worthless to both of us when that person sings! Perhaps that is how other KJ's feel?

5) It would drive me nuts to have someone hear and like a custom track one week at my show and to start looking for it to sing the next time they come in. They can't find it and start asking me about it. I don't know what they're talking about and now have a confused and unhappy singer on my hands.

6) And... there is the situation as Cueball and others have described with people bringing a complete binder (or two) full of discs and, in different ways, interrupting the flow of the show.

7) While I play discs on my laptop, if I had to go back to carrying the deck in order to do so, I might consider not playing customer's discs. Even before I had gotten all of my new equipment (including sub and audio monitor), I had decided to rely solely on the laptop for playing music!

1) Reasonable. However, none of my Favorite songs have bad language in them. If I curse into your system, I'll pay you $100. Play my disc.

2) I've never had any of my burnt tracks that I made with Karaoke Builder Studio not play on any karaoke machine. I did have some issues with some players when I was using Dart Pro to make my home made tracks and that's why I don't use it anymore.

3) Buy more RAM or a better computer or buy a karaoke machine and an A/B switch. Situation, very easily rectified.

4) Get over yourself.

5) Another EGO TRIP. Get over yourself and tell the person looking to sing a song that you don't have that someone brought their own disc and you just don't have that song. I don't make copies of the home made songs that I make and give them away but I'm more than willing to let someone sing from my discs while I'm there. If they heard me sing it the previous week, they are more than welcome to sing it this week because I don't like to repeat the same songs at the same bars week after week.

6) I bring maybe 5 discs with me when I go to karaoke. I'm not distracting anyone. Like I've said before, I usually know what I want to sing before I leave the house, especially if I have just learned some new songs.

Why does a frog bump it's a&& when it hops... and who cares?? The point has been made that SOME singers like to bring in some songs on disc. I will sing off the KJs catalog IF they have the songs I want with the versions I want. If not, I'll ask that they play my disc. If they won't I'm gone. That simple.

I no longer ask a porcupine why it sends those quills out. I just accept that it does.

Not everything has to make bloody sense to everyone. Just accept that some people are more particular. It's got NOTHING to do with your sense of taste, it's got nothing to do with your understanding of the situation. Some people like mayo on the side of their fries, others like ketchup.

It's PERSONAL preference.

I WILL SAY that I understand someone like Danny who has made a choice due to certain restrictions. I think it's great that he continues to run shows and has worked around a disadvantage.

I just won't go to his gig. That's MY choice. Because his choice overrides my own.

Not every song can be downloaded. As Bruce pointed out, some are lyric restricted, so you have to create them if you want lyrics. Some are not available for download. If I have it right then, and I want to sing it right THEN, I will, or I'll go somewhere else.

1.) If you have rules against profanity (Lonnie's gig does), you ACT on it. The moment the singer utters it, shut the song down, explain over the mic that profanity is NOT allowed, and that you are going to the next singer. I would expect before the show starts or you have rules posted that apply to that. I've been to Lonnie's show a couple of times, and yes, I wanted to sing a specific song, but I couldn't. No biggie. He was flexible enough in other areas to where I had OTHER songs I could sing.

2.)I use a stand alone player, and only had ONE problem with a track that wouldn't be recognized. It was a Sound Choice BLACK CDR, and my RSQ505 didn't like it. The JVC triple had no problem with it. SC discontinued these discs as multiple dvd players couldn't see them, and customers complained.

3.) Yeah, again with the hoster limitations. There's a show locally I won't go to because he's got that option only, and it locked up on him. The disc plays just fine in anything else. He admitted he hadn't updated the software with all the patches...

4.) Yep, as I suspected, it's all about your ego (same thing with your tanning business... starting to see a pattern here) . Kurt said the same thing about Ego, and people blew him off. Take that EGO out of the equation and you'll have less questions.

I had a customer that absolutely wouldn't sing my better Billy Joel stuff, despite the fact I had bought the BEST versions out there. Every customer that liked B.J. songs thought so... all except him. He had practiced to the dreaded Backstage disc, because that's what he OWNED. He admitted the SC stuff was better, but he didn't KNOW them, and wanted to sing to what he knew. I took my ego out of it, shrugged my shoulders, and let him sing.

After that, I never again thrust my will on someone else at a karaoke gig. Unless they asked which was better.

5.) merely tell someone that the song belonged to a customer. Sheesh!

6.) uh, how does someone bringing in discs in a binder affect YOUR show. THey all brought you a disc here and there that you had to keep track of.

The show goes on, one song after another. You have the next song ready to go while the current one plays. The show is not HALTED unless you allow it to be halted. If you can't keep track of so many discs, then don't... Keep them on a stack on the side, have the requests on slips or sign-in sheets indicate outside discs (Lonnie slips and my own have a little check mark on it). Since I use the slips AS my rotation, not the software, I never am confused if the tracks are mine or the result of someone bringing in their own or someone elses' discs.

7.) again, make your choices. But don't lament those of us that ALSO make their choices. I never limited my rig based on MY desires. What was important to me is that I could serve my customers the same, either disc based or computer... the computer part should have been seamless with the transition. The only difference is the custmers said the rotation seemed to work out faster on the computer, but since I had two players, and an A/B switch, I just think they didn't see the switching so much

Look, I understand the need to want to keep it as simple as possible. Those that have run into hoster problems continue to profess that software as being the best solution... oh, if you ignore the fact that sometimes you can't use a customer's disc, if sometimes you have to reboot in the middle of a show,

This is why I beta tested a few programs at home way before I ever put my show at risk with the computer. Winamp works great for me. So does ClubdjPro. People pick and choose what they want. I think Hoster is a fine program. I think other programs work well too. But I REITERATE that I think you should have an outside player to play DISCS... do not count on ANY software to do it ALL for you! Cause eventually, it just WON'T.

Computer based doesn't mean all the bells and whistles, doesn't mean the ability to go online and download the next customer track, doesn't mean you have every track known to man.

Computer based just means your show is computer based. BASED. That means the core of it is the computer. Doesn't mean Everything HAS to be done with the computer.

Whew!

Okay slightly political and dangerous question, I will happlily play a customers disc (but then it easy for me as i am a disc based show), but i will not play a copy, it has to be the original. In the Uk to copy karaoke discs, you have to have permission from the manu's and a pro-dub license. . . Although I have permission for the majority of discs I OWN, I do not have the pro-dub license (in my opinion it's ill concieved, mis-sold (unless you pressure the MCPS they will not tell you you need permission from the manu) and yet another way to tax the legal company. . . Just to confirm, in accordance with this law, for you to play your copied disc you will also need the pro-dub license and permission as well from the manu (which will set you back about £300 and about four e-mails).

Because of this, I can not play any song where someone has created their own graphics and lyrics to a song. I can play the original and you may use a lyric sheet. For those of you that have created your own discs, would my ethics prevent you come from coming back.

if there were LAWS in place that backed you up, then NO.

I'm not in the UK, nor in Canada, so I can't profess to that. Nor would I say "YOU SHOULD DO THIS!!!!"

I can only speak to our own situation here in the States.

Used to be the UK had laws against the mp3s, too.

Do whatever you have to do to protect your interests.

I want to come to the UK to visit some friends of mine over there. I guess I'll have to bring my originals.

Matt,

I must ask why you think that a person who buys good tanning equipment for his business and would like to have others try/experience/use it before deciding that it won't meet their needs is being driven by ego? How about the profit motive? Or the instinct to survive in life and/or business ---- the strongest instinct of all?

And as to the problems with vulgarities used at a family restaurant that you want to minimize (we don't all play bars):
Do you really think that turning off the mic of a the person who utters the vulgarity undoes the damage? Do you really think that announcing to the audience that such language is unacceptable will prevent it from happening again? Once uttered the vulgarity hangs there and has an impact that cannot be rectified. It sets a tone; it is disrespectful and worse, young kids are likely around. And if the owner witnesses it, might they consider canceling karaoke having experienced one of its downside potentials!

This is a problem today because there is a whole generation who grew up thinking words that I consider to be vulgar are proper English! Do you really think that even if someone recognized a vulgarity for what it is that they have read my "do's and don'ts" before coming up to sing? People shouldn't have to be told what they can and can't sing in certain circumstances. So any KJ could be vulnerable to this happening every week. So, not playing strange songs is just one reasonable explanation to me for not playing someone's disc. If I were in that circumstance I would happily lose the customer!

And, again, I'm not asking why people want to use their own discs, but rather why they won't give a catalog a chance? And while I admitted that I have (ego) some of myself vested in my catalog.... no that doesn't mean that every reason that every KJ who doesn't play discs is driven by ego. I don't believe that. I am sure just like me with my tanning business -- they want to survive in their business.

I, as someone who will always play discs, can see and understand the viewpoints of KJ who will and won't play customer discs... and I think I've have explained both sides from a KJ's point of view fairly succinctly.

NOW...as a singer.... I can only see one side: IT'S GREAT that a KJ, if I so wanted, would use my discs... and it's OKAY if he/she won't. I still don't understand why it is for some that it is not okay if a KJ cannot play their discs, particularly since I know it is getting harder and harder to find shows that will?

And it has nothing to do with understanding porcupines! As a singer and KJ... I am trying to understand other singers. I want to understand why it is that a very small MINORITY of people must use their own personal discs and will avoid a show where they can't?

Perhaps.... just, ironically, perhaps the answer to my question has to do with the singers' EGOS and not KJ's egos? Just perhaps, do you think? Maybe?


Oh... and this is important Matt, since it deals with opinions...
I have always said that I prefer the BS Billy Joel disc for the tracks thereon over SC or any other manu. And... while others have agreed with me there are others who prefer SC.