Karaoke Forums

Wow, Wading into the fray. New to the Forum but have been doing gigs twice a week for the past year. Been to places in several cities while traveling, some use filler, some don't, and this is what I have found:

• Singer transitions can take several moments to a minute.
• Talking for the full time that someone is making your way onto the stage can be tedious on the audience (I call it "Stripper DJ talk" because they generally sound like that) because you're saying the same things over and over, you can't help.
• Occasionally you'll have a disk/computer/equipment malfunction that takes a moment to sort out. Especially if someone gives you their favorite disk to play. You can't chatter like a monkey while sorting it out.

All of those reasons are why I do use music in between singers. It solves all the problems if done correctly. Here are my rules for using it:

• Use a device that is not associated with he karaoke equipment running on a discreet channel on the mixer. iPod, Zune, Etc does a nice job. Scratched disk, wrong song, dead mic, blown fuse on CD player... all you do is fade to the music, fix it and restart the singer.
• Create play lists for the location and the general feel of the place. Not many places have such diverse crowds you don't know if you're going to be swamped by 20-somethings or 50-somethings. Have a diverse enough library of play lists to handle the places you play.
• Play the list without starting/stopping for discreet songs. If you pick a song up in the middle everyone knows its singer transition time and doesn't think anything of it. This generally avoids the gleeful "Oooo they're singing that!" feeling from the audience.
• After the singer is done, make your call for applause, thank them, fade in the music to about 60% volume and call your next singer. The subdued volume lets everyone know that another singer is being called.
• Fade the music down to a loud murmur when the singer is on stage waiting for their song to start and kill it as soon as the first note of the singers song is played.
• If you do decide to play a song request pump the volume up to 100% of what a singer would sing, start it from the beginning and folks learn that'll be a full song. I get requests very rarely and use it to curry favor with the non-singing regulars at the places I play. So long as they know I'll throw them a bone, they stay and enjoy themselves.
• I generally play one final song from start to finish and start collecting gear, mics first. Often this is a request, dance tune or "Closing Time" song if it's past last call.

Things to remember:

• Some people just put up with Karaoke and still come in there. Those are regulars that help keep your venue afloat. Don't alienate them. If the bar plays music all day/night when you're not there, you should play it while you are there (my opinion of course, your mileage may vary).
• Don't get wrapped up in only what singers want, you're there to keep the entertainment flowing for everyone. Everyone should have fun.

It's not that music between singers doesn't have a place. It just needs to be done consistently well to have the desired impact for all involved.

Everyone who hates transition music can now eviscerate me at will

GRYF has it SOOOO RIGHT ON!! Especially the part about DONT PLAY TO JUST THE SINGERS!! HOW SO SO RIGHT!! You have a room full of people---maybe 100 or so. Perhaps 30 of them are actual singers. The other 70(regs at the bar, people in crowd, pool players etc) will TOLERATE the karaoke but are used to the MUSIC and enjoy listening to it. And of course the music has to be tailored to the type bar and crowd.

(is that evisceration???)

_________________
"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Considering you didn't gut me and leave me lying cold on the floor I'd say You did nothing to eviscerate me. The masochist in me will just have to wait until the next poster

No evisceration from me, either - I think I posted something very similar to this up higher in this post - you elaborated some on my points, and I thank you for that. I'll never be without filler/transition music.

In fact, at band gig last night I grabbed my music lappy at the last minute, and a couple of RCAs to hook it up to the board. As soon as the band equip was set up, we fired up the lappy - I created a quick playlist from the thousands of songs on it and many people commented on the diversity and appropriateness of all the music. After years it's easy to figure out what kind of music should be playing, and people are happy they don't have to continually feed a juke box - bad for the owner somewhat, but if they've paid a cover to get in, it's nice that they don't have to pop for extra to keep that dead air from lurking.

Same as with karaoke, when a band takes a break there should be a smooth transition to filler music until the band steps on the stage again.

Gryf,

I only have two comments, because everything else you presented I agree with being someone who likes to have "all bases covered" when it comes to "transition" and "filler music":

- I don't use special equipment for filler music. I already carry enough equipment that I don't want or need extra equipment for the filler music. I used to use a portable MP3 disc player attached to my mixer for filler music; I don't even carry that anymore.

- I hate it when filler music is in my head up until the moment my song "starts". I've had filler music interfere with my ability to hear the key of and start of my song. And I stopped attending shows where I couldn't get the KJ to refrain from doing that. I will acknowledge that in 99 out of 100 songs, the problem I've described doesn't occur, but you don't want to be up singing when it does! And if a KJ makes it a practice to transition at the last possible second there is always the opportunity for this problem to arise!

I know that some KJ's/DJ's find it a challenge and satisfying to make such perfect, last second, transitions. It's not so rewarding to the singer who is caught in the middle!

Good point--if you have a song with 4 bars of just drum beats before you come in (Iko Iko), you HAVE to count them to know when to start--had the filler music faded into it once and NEVER got that song back until the chorus.

With the hosting program that I have, you can adjust the fade-in, fade-out of the "transition" music, so there is no interferance either coming or going.

Rosario

Excellent point and you're right with that. I haven't had any complaints and I think I have that problem solved with my setup. I use a small self powered monitor for the singer and the monitor doesn't have a feed from the filler music. Yes they might pick up some sound from the mains once they are on stage but it's generally mitigated by the room chatters.

I run the monitor like that so I can adjust what the singer hears or needs from the board while keeping the mix right for the crowd. There are some singers I have that like to hear themselves over everything else regardless of the proper mix so I just turn them up on the monitor. Transition music is never run to that monitor so the stage is "clean" when they arrive.

Might be why the more finicky singers I have haven't complained about the issue you mentioned. Here's hoping at least

Gryf

You have an excellent set-up to preclude the problem I have encountered. While I have not as yet encountered a situation where I must use a monitor for my setup, there are too many shows that I have attended that need a monitor and don't have one!

And as Srnty/Rosario suggested, I also rely, usually, on my hosting software to handle my transitions.

I have singers who tend to be a bit eager and come to sing. I dont think my regular gig would like filler music. I tend to have the next singer on deck and ready to sing just as the next one is finishing.

About 1/4 of the time I may have to give the singer a heads up if they are out smoking or such, as the previous song is ending. Almost always I do this in person instead of announcing on the pa. I would say that I rarely have a turn around over a minute (maybe once every two shows). Most of my singers know when they are next and ready to go, it helps that most of my singers are regular and know the system. Most turn arounds are under 15 seconds.

I dont think I could do this as easily if I did not have mostly regulars, but often I only have one or two new singers out of 25-30 different singers in a night (after a year running the show).

I usually run a song or two at the start and 2-3 at the end when I am taking down equipment. (often 15-20 min after 2am last call, the only night I have ever ended, without a list of singers who did not get to sing was jan 2, when most of the regulars had hangovers (and even then I had a list until 1:50).

For the closing I tend to run classical music to change the tempo and clear the room. The bartenders want to go home (and me too).

I have seen gigs that use filler music, but they tend to atract people who are not there (almost exclusively) to sing. It may be a good idea there but it would not work at my regular show.

Skipping the transition music creates an atmosphere more like a group of friends/enthusiasts getting together to sing. That's not a bad thing.

On this topic, I was at a venue a few nights ago where the KJ ran for a restroom break. The filler was on, and there was a noticable gap between two songs as one ended and another began. Suddenly, you hear the murmurs and hubub of people talking in that gap. That *is* a strange feeling, almost like being at the cinema and the movie cuts out.

I think the key is, when you use fill, it needs to be deftly handled and continuous.




Opera works well for that too.... I remember a library using it to clear out the place.

I use short snippets of sitcom theme songs while waiting for singers to get to the stage. The crowd seems to love it, The Jeffersons is by far the most popular, that generally gets the whole bar singing.

Again can I say I love this place, and the advice given is all so dead on...with out being eviscerated for being over-enthusiastic?

Leo--can I get that book on what NOT to do? Except I think I may be writing my own already.


Everybody thanks for the attention to detail...
Thanks for the thread srnitynow.

Welcome to the forum Loribug, hope you learn as much as I did so far. Just keep hanging around, and put in your 2 cents whenever possible, and don't be afraid to offer your opinion. It's a forum, that's what it is for, for people to exchange information, and different points of view. AGAIN, WELCOME.

Rosario

SERENITY NOW KARAOKE

I'm 100% with "filler" music... its the reason I bought Compuhost over other hosting programs... Because it had an A/B filler deck. When I was using discs I did this manually, now the computer automates it for me... Automatically fading to karaoke as well as from tune to tune.

Filler is lame if not used correctly, and "Dead Air" is worse. I want to hear music, not somebody talking to fill.

Filler music should be "in the background" so that you and the bar can talk in a normal voice, and thus subliminal.

I have a lot of new music, intermixed with old, country, dance, etc. These are subliminal suggestions. Not everyone comes to the show knowing what they want to sing (or that they are even going to sing!). It is my experience that people enjoy the music rather than a dead air show. There are a lot of karaoke shows in my area, and I'm am consistantly told I have the most energetic show of any KJ around. Time and time again, people ask me, "do you have that song that just played?" or "what else do you have by (fill in group name here)".

Some of you KJs out there may be fortunate enough to have an nice group of singers out there that always come up immediately when called, never go to the bathroom, YOU never go to the bathroom, no one ever goes outside to smoke (no smoking in bars in MD), always have their drink order in, etc when they are called, and there is always plenty of room for people to make their way to the front of the bar no matter how crowded. This isn't what happens at my show.

I'm told I run one of the smoothest rotations around, but there are still delays for the reasons above... someone tells you the wrong name of a song and you have to stop, look up the song real quick, then start again.... etc, etc.

I look out at the audience and see people bobbing their heads to the music, singing along to the filler (dancing) while the new performer makes their way up front. They are having a good time! (a howling good time )

the bar that I'm in of Friday night straight out asked me if I used filler music. They wouldn't have hired me otherwise.

there are non-singers in a bar, and as I've said time and again... this is a business, a KJ must keep them entertained and coming back as well as the singers.

Filler music - YES!

_________________
Good music, good friends, howling good times!

Koyote

I have no set rule about bumper/filler music and the like.... it depends on the venue and the night

And, yes, I believe that proper use of filler music helps to generate/maintain the energy.

Most notably in your post, I have never heard it suggested before that the filler music will help motivate people to sing or help them with their song selection.

great post....thanx

I'm a radio DJ by trade, and any jock will tell you there is no greater sin than silence!

The beautiful thing is that different KJs do it differently, and make their show unique. Filler music is a way to do that. One of my favorite KJs uses TV show theme songs for filler. My lady friend and I found ourselves trying to figure out the name of the TV show between singers! What fun!v

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

Hey, that's what I do on occasion.... I have a pretty good collection.

And.. for those who like trivia... asking the name of a TV Theme earns the first answer a free drink!

However, many of the themes I have would be unknown to a 20 somethings group.

So, there are times when I stay away from the TV themes altogether. I've never had any interest in using movie themes!

Remember the theme from Fireball XL5? (Oops, I think I just dated myself )?
With all the cable channels that air the old shows a lot of the kids recognize the themes faster than I do. What's fun though is when you ask them what season that particular version of the theme song is from.

Karen