Karaoke Forums

If you remember my first post about the sweet deal I got on my sound equipment (Mackie DFX12 mixer, 2 Yamaha BR15 speakers, JBL MP418s sub 2 crown XS500 amps, DriveRack PA, Stanton CD player, Fuhrman power conditioner, and a Shure Wireless Mic) for $800, since that time, I've added more weapons to my arsenal. I now have:

2 200 watt floor monitors
Lexicon MX-200 Effects Rack
DBX-266XL compressor/limiter
Over 10,000 songs and continually buying more

I've ordered business cards and typed up a professional looking Business Proposal that I gave to the manager of the bar that inspired me to become a karaoke DJ in the first place. He told me they're currently auditing people and he'll call me in one Friday night to see how I do. I hadn't heard from him yet and went in their Saturday night to talk to him again. When I got there, I noticed they had a DJ who was also setup for karaoke which made me figure he was there to audition as well.
Looking at his setup, I wasn't the least bit threatened. He had a laptop and Behringer mixer resting on a huge (4' x 3') cabinet with a black tablecloth over it, two Behringer powered speakers, a table with a monitor resting on it. He was actually setup behind the speakers. The tv monitor rather than facing the audience was about 45 degrees off center which made it face the side wall. I walked up to get a songbook to see what all he had and since he had placed the song books on the table behind him in the corner, I walked up and had a chance to better assess his gear. To my surprise, I discovered the cabinet was empty! Not a single piece of equipment was in it. I asked the bartender what was going on and she informed me that they had hired him solely to DJ and he decided that he was going to pitch his karaoke services as well.
I can't fault him for attempting to get his foot in the door but took offense at his attempt to pitch such a lame-ass setup. I wasn't the least bit impressed by his mixing (waiting for one song to end and starting another) either. The only karaoke participants he had were three girls who sang 3 times in a row and his buddy who did a horrific job rapping. You could hear the distortion off the vocals too.
Seeing all this reminded me of what someone had said on a previous post. There's a lot of differences between just DJ'ing music and DJ'ing karaoke. As a DJ you can easily get by with a pair of speakers, a laptop and a mixer. For karaoke however, you need a lot more plus and this is a crucial piece in my opinion, personality and charisma. This guy had the charm of a rock which is why he had a hard-time getting anyone else to sign up.
As a result, and since the manager wasn't there anyway, I talked to the bartender who agreed that his "karaoke" setup sucked (@$%&#!). My girlfriend and I left and went to another bar where even though the karaoke setup was only slightly better than the last place (Behringer powered speakers, Shure mics, and a Mackie DFX-12 mixer) the DJ makes up for a lot of it in terms of personality and charm. He's professional, well liked and as such, he usually has a pretty good audience. On this night, it was packed. He did take a little offense when I asked him to drop the low EQ and cut the high and change the reverb from Cathedral to Medium hall on the mixer for the song I was singing (Love Removal Machine by the Cult). He basically told me to go fornicate myself. I didn't take offense though since he had been drinking and it was his birthday. My philosophy though is I'll do anything I can to make everyone sound as good as possible.
I know it's just a matter of time before I get my shot to Karaoke DJ and have little to no doubt I will impress. In the meantime, does it irk any of you when you see a half-assed karaoke setup and/or the mentality that DJ setup + monitor + songs = karaoke?

yes it does!

As you get into this business the thing that will "irk" you is the Ownership/management at most venues and potential GIGS. Most have no idea what GOOD karaoke is suppose to sound like and really don't care as long as people are drinking and having fun. Those like it or not are the only factors that matter to the management. If people don't complain and they are having fun and spending money .... What else is there ? Just keep the FAITH and it doesn't hurt to market yourself as a BETTER KARAOKE host and keep plugging away

Please help me understand why powered speakers and a mixer are fundamentally pieces of crap when compared to a complete rack?

I mean I understand that Behringer doesn't have the sound quality of SRM450s or Eon G2s, or the latest powered QSCs, but aside from a minor sound quality difference, why must someone have an entire rack?

You can get a yamaha mixer with built-in compression and effects, a couple of 15" powered speakers, and be good to go. After all, aren't we talking about a mobile KJ?

With a couple of good quality powered 15s do you really think you are going to need subs for 99% of your karaoke venues?

I have 3 systems, and none of them involve a rack. One is for very small venues where I can't even get the big stuff into, one is for medium-sized venues, and the third is a setup with a yamaha MG124CX and a couple of B215as and a B212a monitor.

I use a 17" LCD monitor for singers and a 27" bar screen for guests. I have a couple of EV mics, a couple of Senheisers, and even about 1/2 dozen Behringer mics.

Nothing spectacular, but nothing that has ever cost me a gig. After all, I usually don't get paid for my setup and teardown time, so I want something easy and quick to move around.

Now if I got a year-long contract with a bar and they wanted a really good system to leave there, I might consider a rack. Otherwise, I am ready to go with my mid-sized SUV.

Recently a successful karaoke venue in the area decided to switch karaoke hosts and replaced a CDG based KJ with a 100% digital KJ. After a few weeks of low attendance, the KJ is now playing customer discs in an effort to get some people to come back to the show who were used to getting their discs played when they went to karaoke.

Things that make you go Hmmmmm.

jamkaraoke said:

DING! DING! DING!

Give that man a cigar! You're correct, the management really doesn't give a squat about your equipment, wattage of your amps or even your song selection. The only thing that matters is the bottom line.

And what else should they care about? They have no vested interest in your KJ business and you have no vested interest in their bar. The management doesn't care if you use cue cards and a megaphone as long as it brings in people and their money because you are still only a service vendor.

I've found that most KJ's place way too much emphasis on their "system" and song selection. And I can understand that, they're proud of it and it represents a lot of blood, sweat and tears... but from the bar's standpoint, they don't care nor should they have to care.

By the way, insulting other KJs equipment is not the way to get gigs. It is not professional.

A better way to make the same point is to discuss HOW you do it and WHY you do it that way, without making a direct comparison.

And some people put all of their emphasis on their whoop de doo kiosks that the average karaoke patron feels threatened by. I was at a karaoke gig recently that had a laptop hooked up for searching songs. It seemed to me like the same three young adults were sitting at the laptop the entire evening. Everyone else was relegated to looking up their songs in out dated paper song books. The venue used to be quite crowded before they changed to a digital karaoke host. Now it's customer base has been cut by half at least.

I'm not saying that Behringer powered speakers and a mixer are worse than my setup of Yamaha passive speakers, driverack pa, with a powered amp. I haven't played with Behringer speakers enough to know. I do agree that Eon G2's sound amazing. What I am saying however is I've noticed that many DJ's who use powered speakers assume that's all they need for karaoke and don't bother using anything else like subs, digital effects, floor monitors, or a compressor/limiter. The Behringer mixer this guy was using didn't appear to have any effects on it and even if it did, I doubt he would know how to use them anyway. Everyone who sang, sang dry and you could hear distortion on the vocals which is is a main reason I refer to it as half-assed. The other place I went to, even though the vocal quality was much better, I still noticed a slight hiss in the powered speakers that could have been eliminated if he was using a Driverack as well.
Finally, the effects on my Mackie mixer don't even come close to the effects on the Lexicon MX-200 either. Once I fully master all the settings it will be even better.

dfwsunking said:
Wouldn't you take offense if some karaoke singer asked you to make all these changes? Wouldn't it be a bit of an insult to you when the singer has to tell YOU how to run your own equipment? Do you allow singers to make whatever changes to and control your system anyway that they want at the time?

You should remember which side of the fence you're on; If you're there as a "karaoke singer" then let the KJ do his job... just as your singers will expect you to do your job. If you don't like the sound, leave. If you're there as the KJ, it's a little different story isn't it?

As a matter of course, I don't drink at all while I'm working, but if you asked for a string of changes like you've outlined above, I'd tell you to sing the song and I'll worry about the settings and sound.... and if that was not acceptable to you, I'd invite you to leave.

Another "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY " Host heard from.

Well at least he had it. I don't.

But I've never had anyone ever want to sing The Cult either. Are you from the UK?

EXACTAMONDO!

You said he had Behringer powered speakers... Which ones? You understand that powered speakers are quickly becoming the way to go for a mobile DJ, and they make complete sense for use in Karaoke.

All the top DJs in my area have quickly moved to the JBL Eons. They are powerful, and produce amazing sound. The next best thing after that is the Bose Pole speakers and sub combo... if you got the cash. I know a guy who only runs ONE pole speaker, set midways in the bar... no singer monitor, and it is simply amazing. You would never know.... but at $3k a piece they ought too!

As far as the Behringer mixer goes, while not the best option, did it have vocal effects???

If so, I can't see what the issue is with his system. What mics is he using? Besides a disc player for those singers who prefer it, and a perhaps a maximizer (optional), I can't think of what other piece of equipment you expect him to have.

As far as getting gigs goes, the way that happens is being on the karaoke scene in your area. Go sing, and talk to people. Let folks know your looking for a gig. Let other KJs know that you have your own equipment, and you would be willing to sub for their night off (and don't try and steal their show!).

NEVER talk down about anyone in your business, no matter how bad they are.

EXAMPLE:

There is a KJ in my area who works at this large neighborhood bar. I started going there with friends because it was within walking distance of one of my friends house ! He took a $15000 home loan out on his house to buy his equipment and library(he told me this himself). Its incredible, and probably the best setup I've ever seen, but had had "a friend" tell him what to buy and come set it up for him, and then he got an inhouse gig three nights a week (thrs - sat), and now he's about to loose it.

When he started, he had all kinds of singers (myself included), and slowly it has eroded. Why? Its not to hard to figure out... singer after singer has complained to me about how he screws up the rotation (I've experienced that myself, its baaad), or if he only has 2 or 3 singers he stops karaoke and justs plays music till more people come in (hopefully). He runs on computer, but does his rotation with post its.

I had a conversation once with him that went like this:

"Hey, can you put me in for "All Summer Long?"

"No, I don't have it."

Incredulous, I said, "You don't? Man, that is requested a lot at my show... you don't get a lot of requests for that?"

"Yes, but my harddrive is full, so I haven't updated since March. I got I guy who is coming in to put a new hard drive in for me."

"Dude, you understand that all you have to do is go to Best Buy, get an external drive with 500 gigs for about $129, and plug it in to an open USB port right?"

"Well, I just going to wait till I get the new internal harddrive."

At this point, I'm done with him as its clear he's his own worst enemy. I'm still getting folks coming and complaining about him to me. I smile and say, "I understand", but I'm still friendly with they guy.

"You ought to go talk to the owners, I'm sure they're looking to get rid of that guy, and you're way better than he is."

I smile and say, "Well, so far they haven't let him go, so as far as I know they're happy with him."

I'm not going after his gig. I'm not going to carry a conversation on with singers about how bad he is. I know it, and that's good enough... If and when I hear that he is gone from that bar or I hear that they are looking then maybe I will check it out.

You never know who you're talking about, or who they know. You're better off staying on good terms and making a friend who might help you rather than bad mouthing the guy and closing doors.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

I was weaned on Bogen PA (public address) amps with no compression or EFX. I can adapt to any system however lacking and put on a performance. And as an engineer I can get the most out of any system. As a salesman and in many other vocations I have a very deep knowledge of public relations. If you are indeed persuing a career as a host which requires more than sitting there calling up singers I would suggest an attitude adjustment. I am currently looking for a host and by your your comments you wouldnt even deserve the first interview.

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I see your point. The opinions I've shared here and my own and when I'm at a place that has karaoke, I know enough to keep my mouth shut no matter how bad it sounds since I realize that if the sound quality was truly important to the karaoke DJ and the bar management, they would have improved it already. If it sucks I look at the reasons it sounds so bad, finish my beer, and then leave.
As far as the first place, I didn't disparage the karaoke DJ to the bartender/assistant manager, I didn't have to. She wasn't pleased with his "I'm a DJ, but oh yeah I just happen to do karaoke too" angle since that's not what he was hired to do. It would be like pulling out your guitar and doing an acoustic session in the middle of a karaoke show. I asked her opinion, listened, and then listed the things that would have made it better that I just so happen to have or would do myself.
Finally, I totally agree that no matter how good the equipment is you're only as good as the number of people you can get in the door. I'll admit that before embarking on this adventure, I only paid half as much attention to the sound quality as I do now. That being said, I never want that to be a factor that compels people to go elsewhere.

Exactly. Its my equipment, I know how it sounds best in the venue I'm in.

All I would say to you is, "You take care of the singing, I'll take care of the mix" and adjust it how I want. If they don't like it goodbye.

The first rule of a techie is, "never let the talent dictate how to run the sound. Their job is to sing, your job is to make them sound good."

When I was tech for a cabaret show we use to electrical tape the mic open and cut it on and of from the board. Why? Because invaribly the singer will switch if off and then blame you because the mic was off.

My favorite part was when the singer would say, "Why is there electrical tape on the mic?"

"Don't worry about it, sing!"

I've had leads from bands come in and do the exact same thing... try to dictate how I set them up. I smile, cue the track and adjust as needed. I've never had a professional complain to me about my mix.... more often they are amazed that I got it right.

Don't get me started on the wanna be professionals, however.....

_________________
Good music, good friends, howling good times!

In this case and I'm not just saying this since I was the one requesting it I would have gladly obliged them as the adjustments were minimal and really no different than adjusting the volume. He refused and that's fine. What he shouldn't have done which he did is make a public spectacle of it as I stepped up to the mic which in my opinion is breaking a key karaoke commandment as a DJ that you should never disparage anyone who comes up and sings. I'm not disparaging him for refusing and likewise he shouldn't disparage me for asking. A simple "No Pavarotti, just get up and sing" with a smile would suffice.

That aside, I do think he's a great Karaoke DJ and realize that I can learn a thing or two from him. In fact, I got his number for that very purpose.

BTW, I'm in Dallas but I do love the Cult! I wish they had more songs on karaoke like Rain, Edie, and the Phoenix.

It is very frustrating to witness the number of DJs who don't really have the know- how to mix anything live getting into karaoke because that's what it's about - mixing vocals with the music, and then touching up the vocals a little. Most DJ/KJ (DJ first) only tack on karaoke as an upsell and really don't have any interest in doing it at all but if it gets them a gig, they'll do it.

As stated above, the majority of bar owners don't really give a hang about what you as a KJ offer in terms of equipment and song selection - 99% of them don't even want to discuss it. In fact, most owners are not even there while karaoke is going on so the bartenders and servers and the take at the end of the night are the only indicators they go on. Sadly a lot of places get full by default - and the patrons will suffer the poor karaoke because it's their home bar ... they don't go for the entertainment and may do 1-2 songs over the course of the night just because it's there, they're drinking (or their friends are drinking), and get a kick out of butchering a karaoke song or two. And those people don't care if the sound is mixed, what version of the song you are using, etc., etc.

I despise half-axxed karaoke no matter where it is and have spent my entire karaoke career trying to change it ... not succeeding very well because we live in the land of pirates with poor equipment that are still working. I also get people coming up to me ranting about the karaoke and I tell them the best thing they can do is talk to the bartender, let them know their feelings, or leave a note for the manager/owner suggesting they invest a little time and energy getting better entertainment. Other than that, whaddya do? Nothin....just go about your own show the way you think it should be done and enjoy the fact that your followers love how you do it. There's enough crap in this world without having to deal with crap DJKJ setups.

"You take care of the singing, I'll take care of the mix"...

I've asked hosts in the past to not put so much reverb or echo on the mic, or to add more (Phil Collins "In The Air Tonight" is a perfect example)... my wife Ruthie doesn't like echo, and even tells ME to turn it down on her stuff.

But I would never be so crass as to tell a host to put it on Cathedral or anything specific.

To me it sounds like the issue is not the equipment, not the song selection, nor the other KJ hosts that you have seen in action.

It seems to me, like the BEST advice you could get would be on how to score some gigs. When you get a gig, you can come back and tell us how things are going with all that fancy equipment, and all those songs you've acquired!

It sounds like you are really enthusiastic, which is ESSENTIAL to doing this type of work. It may involve taking your lumps (maybe doing a couple of FREE gigs for a bar, to show your impact on their bottom line, OR following through on a promise to deliver 10 new patrons on a night that they MIGHT let you host karaoke, etc)..These are things my business partner and I have done to get our feet in the door with our karaoke company, and that's the most important thing. You GOTTA get a start...

I agree with other posters that have stated you shouldn't be critical of other's performance on the mic, or of their equipment. Why not tell those hosts what you LIKE about their show? My biz partner and I (we're friends, but we co-own our company) have a well run and well=liked show in our area (We average 14-17 karaoke gigs a month, and avg. 2 or 3 DJ events as well)..and on our off nights (HEY, we're both single with no families) we like to 'go undercover' and check out karaoke shows in other venues. This way we can learn about what others are doing and if those things kinda fit our vision for what a great karaoke show can be. We never criticize others, but we ALWAYS make it a point to thank the hosts for letting us sing, and for doing what they do, providing entertainment....REGARDLESS OF THE QUALITY. We've had other KJs come and see us, and as a result they sharpen their shows, as well. Afterall, in as much as I could teach you something, I could learn valuable info from you as well.

When it comes to this business, things are tough right now, depending on where you're at. It's this economy stuff that's going around right now....right? So maybe bars aren't looking for the BEST karaoke host...but maybe they are looking for the BEST VALUE karaoke show. Be willing to deal with the venue owner/manager...don't undercut your competition, but make some consolation for what you can give now vs. the long run. (If you would normally charge $175/night for a show as a one time deal....maybe go $150/night in exchange for a one month agreement or longer) Invite your drunk friends....hey..they are going to be at a bar anyway...might as well be where you're at...Even if they don't sing karaoke...they came because of you, and they will spend their money..the bar owner's will recognize that.....TRUST ME...that's part of the secret of my company's success...

Hey man, I wish you all the best of luck. I hope my thoughts can help you out with some direction you might take in getting some gigs. I'd be happy to talk more outside of the forum if your'e interested. I don't know ANYTHING about the equipment you've mentioned...cause it doesn't mean anything to me. My company started out with a VERY used Fender Passport 150 and a CAVS machine...we've grown considerably in our few years of doing this and we looked forward to more growth even in a down turn economy.

Best of luck, man. I have a feeling you're just motivated enough to make great things happen!!!