Karaoke Forums

Recently, I added a few more toys to my system, one of them being a DBX 266XL compressor. I have heard several people rave on the forum about compression. Thought I would see what all the fuss is about. Ok, so I had a friend hook it up in a quick hurry at one of my shows( i'm not knowledgable about this subject at all). Anyway, he said one thing that sorta made sense to me, that is, I don't want to compress all the sound, only the vocals. Made sense I thought. He hooked it up in a way he used the return FX and the pre-outs on the mics. Seemed to work for the most part, but.....here's the problem. I didn't like the way I didn't have much control over the individual mics,,,low, mid, high controls, also the effects to mics. So last night I unhooked it, and went straight back to the way it was before, meaning no compression or crossover, only mixer directly to amp.

Ok, here's my question(s). Does hooking up the compression to the entire mix hurt the sound quality of the music? If so, how do I get around this and only compress the vocals (mics)? Again, i'm not educated enough to know, so if anyone can educate me, it would be very much appreciated. Am I right in thinking it goes in this order,,,,,mixer to compression to equalizer to crossover to amps and finally to speakers?

Most of my equipment is Behringer.

mixer = Behringer Xynyx 1832FX
compression = DBX 266XL
equalizer = Behringer FBQ3102
amps (3) = Behringer EP2500 (one for subs, one for mains, one for monitors)
mains = Behringer B1520 Pros (2 for now, but will add 2 more)
subs = Behringer B1800 Eurolive (older model)
monitors = small 10" for now, but adding something else,,not decided yet.
mics = Behringer XM8500 and Sennheiser E835's

I know some of you will disagree at using some of this stuff, but this is what I have, and I really like it, works for me. So if you can offer some good suggestions on hooking this stuff up properly, I am all ears.

There is no real point to compressing the entire mix. The prerecorded music tracks of karaoke are already compressed.


I don't know what the resistance is to using the compressor like everyone here recommends. Perhaps you just missed it last time I posted in response to your question.

Get your insert cable:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--HOSSTP20

Hook the red to the output of a channel, the grey to the input. The black to the Insert on your main vocal mic.

Then set the compressor for -10db onset, 2.5:1 compression ratio, and auto attack/release. You can play with it, of course, but for the most part that should do it for this application.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

mrscott
let us know how you go on as ive got the behringer ep2500 amp comming and behringer mdx4600 compressor also which ill be hooking up to the same mixer as you the 1832fx.

Hooking it up to the main mix is good if you are only doing it for speaker protection & then you'd really want to use a limiter on the main mix rather than just compression, otherwise hooking it up to the mics only is a much better way.
You'd want to use the insert jacks rather than the Aux send which really isn't going to benefit at all for the compression as it's just a side chain & the fader still gets the entire signal anyway. Connecting via the insert jack puts the compressor where it needs to be, after the mic & before the fader on the channel.

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thanks on the good info lonman ,try once gear arrives. hoping its worth it or a know someone who mat string me up for spending money.(THE WIFE)

thanks on the good info lonman ,try once gear arrives. hoping its worth it or a know someone who mat string me up for spending money.(THE WIFE)

I just picked up a DBX 166A off PDX CL for 75.

And I really have nothing else to say other than I thought it would be cool to put that up!

OK now I'm typing away so here goes nothing of importance...

I guess I'll go with conventional wisdom here from Lonnie and others and hook it up off the channel inserts at least for starts. I dunno...

To mrscott... channel compression on vocal mics really isn't that big of a deal if you have singers who behave themselves and you don't mind riding the faders.

I don't.

And it will be nice to not have to rely on post mixer compression from my Driverack for the whole load. I may still keep a little of that on though. Not to compress the karaoke tracks obviously, but because it you set it just right - and it's tricky - the backing track will duck just a bit and it gives the singers the illusion that they are singing louder than they really are. Although it's noticeable to me when I'm listening as KJ, when I'm singing I don't notice it at all. And no one in the room has a clue.

Kinda weird the way it works. Fools the ears when you're the singer.

Where's my coffee...

Thanks guys for your responses. However, i'm still very confused. There are several settings on the compressor that I will have to figure out, but the biggest thing is the hookup. I always use three mics, and it seems the way mcky suggested, it would only compress one mic, am I mistaken? I do have several singers that do not "behave" themselves, they like to scream their songs, and I am always tweeking the volume down, A LOT! Also, just received my third amp yesterday, and put it in the rack. The third amp is for the monitors, and am not sure if my crossover is set up for three different units, ( subs, mains and monitors) that is something for me to contend with. Just might have to use the monitor out on the mixer straight to the amp and speaker. Will find out in the morning when I give all the suggestions a whirl.

If more of you out there have some clear as mud suggestions, I would be appreciative of them. Again, thanks in advance.

Scott

In mono the 266XL will handle 2 mics. I rarely use more than 3 mics but beyond 2 I sometimes have done this. Get 3 Alesis nanocompressorswhich can be mounted in one rack space. One can be used for a third stage mic. One can be used with the announce mic to duck the background music. One can be used for a roaming wireless for example I have had gigs where the bartender. used a wireless to announce specials etc.

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On stage there is always at least 2 mics,,,sometimes I hand mine to another singer, if it's needed. So, is the 266XL gonna cut it for me? I am totally out of rack space now unless I down-grade in size of my equalizer, it's now a 2 space mount, but could trade it for the single space, smaller unit. I am very excited to get all this stuff hooked up properly. Should sound like a million bucks, (I hope). The crossover has a built in limiter, so that alone might give me an edge on the compression part. Dunno, you tell me. You guys know much more than I ever will about this stuff. Tomorrow morning gonna dive into hooking up everything. Cross your fingers, and keep up the suggestions.

Scott

You're getting along without compression now, right? On the rare occasions you use more than 2 mics, just turn the third and fourth one down.

I think you also are not realizing what the benefits of compression are. I know people here talk about dealing with screamers, but that's not why *I* like compression. It isn't so much mitigating screamers as making halfway decent singers sound better.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I second this comment
I've read through technical sound reinforcement books and mostly sorta understand the theory and use of compression by the pros etc., but it seems that the practical use, for karaoke at least, is to bring the vocals out of the mix better. Also it seems to me at least that, from the singer's perspective, it somehow helps a non-singer (untrained voice) to sing easier with hitting higher notes, but I can't explain why that is so, just seems so to me...

mchin99

The 266 is a 2 channel compressor. Allowing compression to 2 mics only. Running them through the inserts on the mixer (proper way) you will only have 2 mics compressed. If you want to properly compress more than 2 mics you would need another 2 channel or a single space 4 channel unit like the dbx 1046.

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Holy Crap!! Been working on this stuff all day,,,figured out the more I know,,,the less I know!! Compression isn't working as easy as it was supposed to be. I did find a guy who will help me, for a price. Dangnabbit! hehe. Bought the cables like Mcky suggested,,hooked them up just like he said, and ,,,,,,nothing. No sound whatsoever from that mic. So, got to go back to the old method for now, til I can go see this other guy. Thanks for the help though guys, it is very much appreciated, really!

I do have the EQ working like a charm tho, that was cake, but I knew that one would be. I even have the coolest thing installed in my rack. Not gonna make anything sound better, but it sure looks awesome! I burned my karaoke name (MrScott's Karaoke) into a steel plate ( light gauge ) and put a white box behind it, inside the rack. And then put a black light inside the box itself....Looks totally rad,,,( uhh, does that sound too much from the "80's"? hehe).

Ok, back to work on the sound stuff, but will have to quit soon, as I have a show in a couple of hours. I do have the subs, sorta working on their own amp, and the mains working on an amp of their own too. The monitor is all set to go either with a powered speaker, or an amp for them as well. That should do for now til I pry open my wallet and spend bookoo bucks for technical support from the "guy".

Again, thanks for the input. I might have missed something, but will keep trying.

Scott

I hope you tried swapping the gray and red. The polarities out of mixers vary.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Mcky,

Yep, tried switching the plugs red/grey, but same results. I think i'm just missing something, dunno yet. I did my show last night using the old way of doing things, except with one difference, I added my new EQ. Made a world of difference in sound all by itself. But I expected that. I did something kinda unusual tho, I split the sound left and right channels into two separate signals, using a "y" connector for each side. Set each side with different settings, one for bass sounds only, and the other for full spectrum sound. Sent the two signals to two amps, and found out,,,ok, here comes another "HOLY CRAP!",,,I have power coming out the ying yang now!!! Way too much power, gotta get bigger speakers,,hehe. It was so loud at the end of the night when I play my night-ending dance mixes. They loved it! And so did I.

OK, so back to the compression issue. I spoke to the "guy" who can get my system all hooked up and wired properly. He can also rewire for my sub system as well. Not sure if his fee is good or not, but still gonna pay it. Should be worth it, I hope. Does 50 bucks per hour sound reasonable to you guys? This really is exciting to be able to finally have the sound I have always wanted. I should be the talk of the "karaoke town" soon.

Scott

If he really knows what he is doing and can also teach you a bit while he is working on it, yes.

Things to check:

1. Are you absolutely sure you had the black connecter in INSERT and not LINE IN?

2. Have you tried increasing output gain?

3. Have you tried toggling the +4 / -10db switch on the back channel?

4. What are the lights doing?

Keep playing with it.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

On the compressor, what kind of cord are you using, are you positive it is an insert cable? The ends look like:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--HOSSTP20

As far as the eq, that is completely wrong - if I am reading correctly you boosted one side of the eq for bass & the other channel for the mids & highs? This is just overloading the amps. What does the rest of your system consist of? It almost sounds as if you need a crossover to go between the subs & main cabs, then run the eq normally without splitting the signal.

$50 per hour isn't outrageous as long as he knows what he is doing. It shouldn't take more than 1 hour to connect it all though. Most systems can be connected up & set within 15-half hour. Just make sure you understand how to reconnect it once it's all said & done.

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Lonnie,

Yes, am quite sure that it is an insert cable, 1/4" stereo split to (2) 1/4" mono. And yep, am sure where I plugged it in as well, into the mic inserts on the back of the mixer, NOT the mic inputs. So, I am quite sure that it was hooked up just as Mcky suggested. But nothing happened. The compressor is always on, not an "on/off" button on this unit. But the compressor does light up on the LED's. Just no sound. The "guy" will help troubleshoot that as well.

As far as having the mixed signal, seemed to work great, but it is only temporary. I do have a crossover for the entire system, and that is what the "guy" will also rewire the speakon cables for the subs, along with making sure all the connections are correct.

Really can't wait for all this to be done. Thanks guys.

UPDATE**

Ok, thought I would update you guys on the compression issue I had. Took the entire system to the "guy" I mentioned yesterday. He did some tweeking here, and button pushing there,,,,,and whalaah! Got sound now. He didn't hook up the crossover however. Said I really didn't need since my EQ has a built in crossover in it. The EQ has so many extra little goodied on it, makes things quite easy. Got the subs working just like they should as well.

So last night I got to put the system to a test and everything went extremely well. Got a ton of compliments on my sound. Really impressed me too. My wife said i'm gonna be hard to live with now,,,hehe. Giving myself a swelled head as we speak ya know!! At the end of the night, I even let loose the ponies just to see how loud I could get this thing. And I might say this,,,"nail down the paint, cuz it's gonna fall!" It shook the entire building, WOW! what a rush!!

Thanks guys for all your help and input, it really came in handy, and was very informative too. You guys are AWESOME!! Rock on dudes!

Scott