Karaoke Forums

Mcky

1st off - I don't appreciate being told to shut my mouth by anyone
So you were the 1st to get out of line . I was only reacting to your statement.

2nd - I was only responding to another response in regards to RECOVERING ALCOHOLICS as somebody who may frequent a karaoke bar and just order WATER. (still no problem)

3rd I just stated the obvious - an alcoholic probably shouldn't be frequenting bars.
And your correct -I know nothing about it. just my A-hole opinion on the subject.
If you're recovering I could care less really, just BUY SOMETHING ..that was the spirit of this post -But if your'e a freeloading patron for whatever reason at my show ...you're not welcome... That is if the MANAGEMENT agrees..after all it is really their concern. If they don't care ... I don't care. ( just don't be a PIA)

Bill - Wish you well with your sobriety , My opinions and remarks are not to OFFEND anyone dealing with any type of addiction. It was targeted to ANYONE who freeloads at a Karaoke show in a bar for whatever reason.

I understand Jam. And I wasn't offended by anything you said. I was just throwing out a recovering alcoholic's perspective.

You were telling other people, i.e. recovering alcoholics, what to do.


So just like you said recovering alcoholics *perhaps* should stay out of bars, I suggested that *perhaps* people who don't know what they are talking about should keep their mouth shut about a subject.

My point about this particular subject -- hijacked again by our crusading anti-non-drinker -- is that the venue is always responsible for converting their patron's business to dollars. I personally go out of my way to try and spend some money -- in my own self-interest, which is to have karaoke continue. But if I didn't, it wouldn't be the karaoke hosts responsibility to enforce it. And what is worse, this tenor of this thread is completely meaningless as trying to shame people here has ZERO chance of having any influence. It is all a big ego trip.

What does work is simply going to the grocery store, buying a few cases of bottled water, and selling them for a couple bucks apiece. It is that simple, and any bar that has karaoke and doesn't do that is stupid. And the karaoke host who bellyaches and moans about "non-spenders" and who hasn't made that suggestion to their venue owner is stupid too.

If the karaoke host attracts crowds that are low-rent, they either need to look at what they are doing wrong to attract a crowd of losers, or change to a venue that has more possibilities. Going to a karaoke forum and casting aspersions is going to do nothing for them.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Yup, my brain kicked in AFTER I posted, figured you were playing with numbers....

I fugure if the the management KNOWS about them, but doesn't do anything about the actual freeloaders then it their butt. As a host, I certainly have no right to go AGAINST the venue's managerial policies. Also, if they know who they are and do nothing, they have no right to hold the host accountable for it... Puts it right back in their lap.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Joe:

If I have freeloaders at my show, and my show is dying (financially), and I know that it is dying, and I know that I am going to lose the gig if things don't improve....

when I lose the gig.... shall I gain it back by telling the manager that it is his fault that people came to my show and didn't spend any money?

That, you think, is going to make me whole and save my rep?

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To AA members:

My position has always been that singing at a karaoke show is not someones right!
As Karyoker asked in a recent thread, what is your obligation as a singer? Well, several people struggled for an answer. Nobody, but nobody, suggested that spending money at the show was an obligation. Why? Because, IMHO, everyone took that to be a given ---- you go out for an evening of entertainment and you SPEND MONEY!
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As I specifically stated and Jamkaraoke reiterated..... you're surely aware of those who repeatedly attend you show and spend nothing.... unless you have hundreds of people in attendance and 30 or more singers.... well that's a lot of people to keep track of..

And, it doesn't sound like a show that is marginal financially and at risk of being terminated. Nonetheless, if I ran such a successful show and knew that one of my regular singers is a freeloader... I'd let them know that everybody...EVERYBODY... pays their OWN way.

Yes but bar staff is also aware of who spends or doesn't (they're the ones selling and serving their wares). It is their bar, not mine. It is once again up to the bar to either tell the customer to spend or get out.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Alright, what would you do as a kj if the manager knows about the non-spenders but does nothing about it? Are you going to take the liberty to ban people from singing from what you observe/assume?
It is not your responsibility to direct people what to spend, it's the bars responsibility. If they are complaining about people not spending, then yes they need to ultimately do something about those people. It's not your fault, you are doing what you were hired to do, not babysit how much people spend or don't spend - that is the bartender & waiter/waitresses job. Someone isn't spending anything, they need to either give them the choice to spend or leave.



When you lose the gig, be thankful because obviously the bar is not very smart to allow non spenders to frequent their place. Go find a new gig that will not tolerate that.


We often have nights of 100 or more people & 20-30 singers, no way am I going to keep track of what everyone is spending nor should I have to.



Again not your job, it's the bars. You are hired to entertain - nothing more.
I know people that come to our show that will spend $100 or more one night & the next night nurse a couple sodas for a couple hours - our bar finally wised up on that one & charge for refills now. Then maybe not come in for a couple days & the next time they come will have a large tab again, the next night maybe under $10 again. Should these people not be allowed to sing or made to feel that on their low tab nights that maybe they should either spend more or not come in at all?

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Lon

If there is a chance to save the show, and I can effect a change that will contribute to that possibility... I will do what I can. There is ABSOLUTELY NO UPSIDE, for a karaoke show to avoid the problem when the show is marginal!

It's my show... it's my loss if it goes in the dumper. And there are, in fact, a few hosts locally who will take it upon themselves to skip flagrant non-spenders in the rotation. As the host... we still run the rotation! And as the host, we may end up with other gigs where the same freeloaders who enjoy are show may also be in attendance (because no ever suggested to them that they are NOT welcome).

There was one host, with several shows, that I specifically ranted about a couple years back. He never did anything about the non-spenders, management was UNaware of the situation, AND I (a well-spending customer) left, as a result!

So Lon, with that said, I will agree to disagree and leave it at that.

I don't think it should be the host's job to make sure people are spending. The host works on making the entertainment an attraction but it is up to the wait staff to go table to table and encourage orders. If a person doesn't order anything, they can be wished a good evening and sent on their way. If the wait staff isn't doing that, then maybe the bottom line is falling because people aren't being waited on. Have had that happen when we went to a new place and couldn't get any service.

That being said, I don't blame a host for trying to take a hand in knowing what is going on when they WILL be held accountable for the bottom line and possibly blamed. I don't think it is just, however, and I'm getting the idea that it won't work anyway. If a bar owner isn't doing their part to make their own venue a success by helping with the promotion, making people feel comfortable, giving them something to spend their money on and encouraging them to do it then the host's efforts are probably doomed anyway.

I can't believe this attitude of "If you don't drink liquor while at my show, you can't sing in rotation". Geez, that would be a venue I'd never bother to visit again.

Why did bars quit charging a door fee to get in? That would solve a big part of the problem.

I used to spend quite a bit of money on booze while out at karaoke... I stopped drinking quite a few months ago, for personal reasons. That's not to say I don't usually snack on food and have soda and/or ice water (which is free).. but not always. I'd be pretty offended if my local hangouts were to tell me I wasn't welcome to participate in the karaoke anymore because I'm on the wagon.

I don't want to be part of the argument, but some of these threads and some attitudes here really kill me- I can imagine the numbers of people who read these threads anonymously and laugh at all the retarded-ness that goes on here.

And... if I were a KJ and couldn't keep people interested in my show without them being drunk, Lmao, I think I'd need to find a different avenue for making that extra weekend money.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

It doesn't have to be liquour that you spend your money on and people don't have to be drunk to be welcome or have a good time. But patrons have to spend money on SOMETHING. If you went into a restaurant and tried to occupy a table for several hours by just buying a bag of chips or one plate of fries for several people, you would probably be bid goodnight before too long. Same concept.

Patrons don't care what you tell them they have to do.

You can encourage them in your top-of-rotation announcement to support the venue. You can harangue them. You can try to shame them. But I am guessing it won't do a lot of good, and in fact might be such a downer that you drive people away.

What I know won't do any good is telling them to do that HERE in this forum.

If you consistently aren't attracting the type of crowd that spends money, or building that type of crowd, I suggest you look at what you are doing and adjust it. If the vibe you are giving off is anger at the singer for even existing, water drinker that they are, it is going to spill over to everyone and drive people away. You may end up repelling your target market and attracting the ones you profess not to want.

Lighten up a little bit and have some fun. The more fun people have, the more they come back. And the more likely they are to listen to encouragement to spend money. I say something like "Make sure you patronize the great food and drink at this fine establishment so they will keep us coming back!" at the top of every rotation.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

MickyJ, maybe you were speaking in general and not specifically to me but I don't get angry at the singers as i don't think it is my job to monitor what they spend-- even though my job depends upon it. I have been blissfully unaware of what anyone spent, just happy with a good body count and not even knowing until recently what the bottom line was . When I learned it wasn't that good, I did start looking at factors that are contributing to it.

I really don't think it is unreasonable to express my opinion here that if people expect to hang out at a place for hours for free, then that place won't be there for long. Doesn't mean I am pestering people at the actual show.


And don't get me wrong--I've been wishing bars would expand the types of drinks and snacks they offer to give non-drinkers something to spend their money on. I don't believe that gathering places for live music and karaoke should exist just for alcohol drinkers and I hate trying to down hours worth of soda or coffee just before bed (our bar doesn't have tomato juice). But I don't need a DUI either.

I don't think anyone ever suggested that a singer had to purchase ALCOHOL?
The spirtit of the topic started by the OP was he felt guilty of not buyin alcohol even though the owner said he made more money by selling water.

And for the recovering alcoholics out there who love karaoke.
I apologize for suggesting you don't frequent bars. The comment wasn't meant to offend and should not have been said.

And for those posters who seem to have a problem with everyone and anything that is said on almost every discussion on these boards ( you know who you are)
enough already ... There are many things I'll admit I know little about.
But I can spot an arrogant ahole when I see one OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.

peace and love
peace and love

You know if you guys played at a redneck bar, water drinkers would be the least of your worries.

I don't get it, why would you want to run off a singer that's not actually causing trouble. Every singer helps make the whole of the show and it's the KJ's job to make sure that the good and not the bad gets compounded. And you can't do that by taking problems head on, you should side step them when all possible.


If I had a show that wasn't going well I wouldn't blame the crowd. A problem would not be the illness, it's just the symptom.

I wasn't speaking to you specifically -- I didn't know you have a problem.


It is certainly reasonable to express your opinion. And I am not saying you are doing this, but others have actually been trying to suggest non-drinkers should be barred from their venue. For not drinking what is poison to many. Not to mention those that can't drink and still drive to the venue. Or for that matter, just choose not to drink because they don't like taking mood-altering substances.

Not that I am actually worried about this happening. If someone told the liquor commission that your bar was allowing only liquor drinkers to sing karaoke, you would risk losing your liquor license if they knew about it and you insisted on keeping that policy. I suspect in Canada it would be illegal to boot.


I drink the Virgin Mary. Tomato juice has no caffeine and is quite low in calories (zero points for Weight Watchers).

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Like many of the topics discussed here there are many variables that make almost everyones points valid. ( even mine ). The water drinker or (non spender) won't bring a show down all by themselves ( unless you have a show full of them) but they "irritate" the bartenders who make there living from tips , the bartenders have the owners ears ( MUCH MORE THAN KJS) as they are there many more hours on multiple days. If the "PERCEPTION" that the show brings in water drinkers it can be very serious for even the BEST OF KARAOKE SHOWS.

It's never the KJ responsibility to police who attends there shows..but ultimately becomes their problems if they are SINGERS .....if they don't sing ..funny thing
NOBODY BLAMES THE KJ

Apology accepted.

I believe just like handicapped people have a right to go where they want, so do non-drinkers. And in fact, I bet any liquor commission in the country would back me up. Not to mention most bar owners. One of my closest friends owned a bar for 10 years, and *he* never had a problem with non-drinkers. He even liked having some around as it could get a bit difficult if no one was sober enough to do anything sane. He also had zero problem with recovering alcoholics, and always had free coffee on for them. He knew that he had earned his living from them.

That being said, a bar truly is not a very good place for an alcoholic. Early in sobriety, or if at all shaky, I would never suggest anyone go there alone. Personally, I would far prefer to sing at non-bars, and in fact most of the shows I go to regularly are as much restaurant as bar. I do about a dozen karaoke shows a year at family venues with no alcohol allowed. But they are freebies, as I don't really have a revenue model that works for them.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

A very refreshing view, and just as valid.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott