Karaoke Forums

WHICH ANYONE CAN CHIME IN ON... KJ'S AND NON-KJ'S

I have read a lot of important posts and learned a great deal since becoming a member. The following subjects/questions have never been specifically addressed.
So....

1) Who do you work for (who makes the final decisions on how your business is to be run)?

2) Who is your customer?

3) What is your product/service?

4) Who, ultimately, determines how your show will be run?

5) How do you define success and how do you know if you have achieved it?

6) Who, ultimately, determines if you are successful?

Me & me


The bar I work for, and the bar's customers[/quote]


Off my website:
Karaoke/ DJ hosting services for hire
to private parties and functions as well
as entertainment for local bars.
Affordable rates! Email or call anytime!



Me, me, & only me. It's success or failure rests soley with me.


If people come to my show and have a good time, that's one kind of success. If they come back week after week, and bring friends, that's another kind.



Base on the perimeters above that would be me

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

I work for me, but to make it work, work WITH the place I am hired at!


The people that come in to sing.

[
If i'm hired for karaoke, then it's karaoke! If i'm hired for karaoke/dj, then it's karaoke/dj - but I have yet to be hired for both!


Depends on what I wa hired for but ultimately it's ME on how it will be run.

If people are coming in, spending & becoming repeat customers.


Obviously the club that hires you is going to determinet what they feel is successful - it may be BS to you, but it is ultimately THEIR books that will tell them if the entertainment THEY hired is successful or not. Now it is true that some idiot bar owners or managers may try to see that success & figure any company can achieve the same figures, but that will be either their loss or equavialent figure. They may just try a lower cost company to see. I have seen clubs in this area with good companies that have went to low budget companies that didn't matter, the crowd still came, yes they bitched, but still came.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Most KJ's on this forum are self-employed and make their own "final" decisions about how they run their businesses.

I have to disagree with Lonnie on this one, I don't believe it's the "singers." I firmly believe it's the club/client who pays you. When there are fabulously-busy nights, who's there to pay you? The club. Sure, the singers are there as well and unless they're tipping you, you're really not making a dime off them.

When the club is slow and it looks impossible that the patrons could drink enough to pay your salary, who's there to pay you?.... the club.

So who really is your customer is a question I don't think can be answered any other way.


Organ Grinder. The patrons are my performing monkeys.... Ba-Da-Boom!

Seriously, my service is to engage the patrons that are currently in the club and insure that they're having an enjoyable enough time to return and bring others with them.

I don't believe in the concept that a karaoke person has "a following." If you did, then why not own your own club and then make money off the drinks too? After all, by that point you should be so good that you can "pack 'em in" anyway so simply pack 'em in to your own establishment.




Depends entirely on the issue. There are some issues where the club has input and others where they do not.



You do.

Without going down the whole list here, I believe that the singers are my customers. If my regulars had a problem with the current bar we'd be moving the show. And we talked about it once when there was a few issues with the change in management a couple of years ago.

We all worked things out but it was a close one at the time.

Bill H. said:

Then why even bother with a club? If the singers are your customers, what's the use of the club? A "gathering place?" If that's true then why simply "move the show" a singer's house, have a grand old time and let the singers pay you, you don't really need the club do you? Of course you do because it is one of the key elements of this business. Your assertion that "we'd be moving the show" means that you'd move it where?... another club of course. Before you can have your singers you need a place for them to meet. And that place pays you to bring them there.

No offense intended Bill, but IMHO, I believe that this is a perfect example of thinking that running a karaoke show is about "singing" and not "making money." Don't get me wrong, I understand that a host has to be entertaining, have a decent library and a great sound and all that stuff that goes with it. But I think too often the focus is shifted on the "singing" and not on the "business."

Me too. If the singers don't show up, then karaoke might as well not be held.

Which is why I cater to singers as opposed to non-singers. The non-singers will come if things are happening, and they happen if the singers show up. If the bar is dead, the non-singers won't show up.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Around here before you have a club you need singers.
And yes... every club in the area has hit on me now that I have them.

But it's a chicken/egg argument really.

Bill said:
Absolutely it is.

However, you are in the unique position of holding all the cards: if they clubs are seeking you out to bring in your singers, then it should be worth something to do that. You can either pick the club you choose to work at for your regular fee or auction off your services and singers to the highest paying club.

Your ability to bring in a paying crowd of people HAS REAL value... and you should rightfully be compensated for such.

mckyJ57 said:

This is where I believe there is a mis-identification: Of course you have to "cater to the singers" because you are in a participatory business, and those that don't participate really don't count much in the mix. They are there when there are lots that DO participate.

Catering to the singers is part of the job, but I really don't believe that they "are your customer" in a business sense. No more than server in a restaurant: they have to cater to you when you come in as a "customer", but in a sense, the server's customer is the establishment that is purchasing their "waiter/waitress services."

If the server makes your visit one that is extremely enjoyable, efficient and fun, you'll come back for lunch won't you? Would you be inclined to bring someone else with you so you could introduce them to this "really cool restaurant?" I would, because I'd want to come back to see the same server.

Same is true in our business, we cater to the singers to make their stay enjoyable enough to come back and bring friends... but our "customer" IMHO, is the establishment.

Granted, if we change clubs then we can "take our singers with us" just as you'd wonder where the server went if they weren't at the restaurant a second time. So the question "Who is your customer?" is one that has no wrong or right answer because it can be answered both ways: singers or establishment.

"Organ Grinder. The patrons are my performing monkeys.... Ba-Da-Boom!"

Oh how I wish every one of his "monkeys" could read Chip's post to see what he thinks of them. I think there would be a mass exodus of the "monkey" population if they knew how he felt about them. In many of his posts he reveals his true feelings about the singing public. How sad.

That is too complex a distinction. I prefer to see the venue and myself as "we", and the customer as "them". We want to keep them happy.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

BruceFan4Life Whined:

Bruce, you really need to get a life... You are the first to twist anything you possibly can into something dark or evil.... was Eeyore your hero?

I don't really have a problem if you want to intelligently debate or even argue a point in an adult fashion regarding the subject matter of my posts. The above however is absolutely the most childish attempt at a personal attack that I've seen in a while. You really need to get over it and perhaps grow up a bit. If you can't seem to post anything regarding the subject matter and you have to attack the person, then there is apparently nothing that you disagree with in the subject is there?

Feel free to take a "flying monkey" leap at any time. I didn't ask for your input regarding a joke in passing (See: Ba-Da-Boom) or any other assumption you might have regarding my personal views.

If all this is confusing to you, let me simplify it for you: Keep your assumptions to yourself and go pick on someone your intellectual equal.... like a fourth-grader.

[b]TO ALL OTHER READERS:[/b]

My apologies for the above rant... 'ya know sometimes you try to be nice and give the small-minded monkeys a few extra bananas and they turn around and get uppity on you...

BA-DA-BOOM!

Many a truth is said in jest. You have an obvious disdain for karaoke singers that you try to hide but you can't. I was personally offended by your insult disguised as a joke, as I'm sure your "singing monkeys" would also find offensive.


How many times has someone said, "I WAS ONLY KIDDING" when they have realized that something they said hurt someone's feelings?????? Maybe a Gazillion????

Some of my best friends are (fill in the inappropriate group here)....just kidding!

I just point things out without calling people names......but I have to admit, I do love the I'm with Stupid emoticon. You can't help but throw out insults in your responses. Those are some great debating skills you've got there, Chip. A fourth grader wouldn't pick up on your "subtle" insults.

1) Who do you work for (who makes the final decisions on how your business is to be run)?
My husband and I work for ourselves in this business and based on our knowledge and experience in this business, both as musicians and as PR people, we decide how best to make it work for us and our clients. (Client, who pays us, as opposed to customer, for whom we provide our services under the auspices of the client.)

2) Who is your customer?
See above. Semantics here, really, but we and our client (the hosting establishment) agree on how best to service their patrons (our customers).

3) What is your product/service?
Obviously we provide karaoke but we also provide a measure of public relations for our client. We are essentially part of "the face" of the hosting establishment and our performance directly reflects on the establishment, both their success and their failure.


4) Who, ultimately, determines how your show will be run?
The methodology of the show is determined in the first meeting we hold with a potential client. If our ideas about how to create the most successful show jibe well with that of the owner, this is a mutual decision; however, in that we have many more years of experience in this field of entertainment, if a potential client has ideas that we feel are not going to bring success, we will override at that point and either take the job or not.

5) How do you define success and how do you know if you have achieved it?
Success, in my mind, is directly related to the longevity of a show. If we are able to provide a quality show that brings in patrons week after week after week, and our client's bottom line reflects satisfactory profits, we are successful. Obviously the client's patrons are happy if they continue to return week after week after week, for years at a time. The ultimate success (increased profits) of our client is a function of the success of our services.

6) Who, ultimately, determines if you are successful?
See above - OUR success is directly related to the success of our clients. Success is very subjective, as well, so even though a client may consider that we are providing them with the very best karaoke they've ever had because their profits may have increased substantially, their markers for success may also include factors other than increased bottom line, though in these times that would be a rarity.

1) Eventually through my, host, staff, owner I work with and for our customers for they are the ones providing our incomes.

2) Anybody who loves music and enjoys it.

3) Providing entertainment in many formats for private or public venues.

4) The ones sitting bobbing their heads, smiling and cheering.

5) It's the feeling you get when a complete stranger walks up, shakes your hand and compliments your show.

6) Everybody involved.

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Brucie whined again:

You really are a piece of work. Where do you come off stating that I have "an obvious disdain for karaoke singers?" Gee, did you forget to add the part where that statement was only your "opinion" or did someone die and make you God?

And to correct you (once again) I never said "I WAS ONLY KIDDING" did I? Are you now deciding that you can freely put words in my mouth? (must be that God thing again huh?) If your feelings were hurt, that is a responsibility that you only can bear. I wasn't specifically addressing you in my post and if you took it that way then you "put the monkey on your own back" as it were. Don't blame me for your tender little feelings. You like to engage in personal attacks because IT IS MY OPINION that you relish in throwing the first stones and can't take what you dish out.


I didn't say I was kidding because I didn't have to.... notice the "ba-da-boom" oh wise one that even YOU quoted, or in your great wisdom did you miss that?

Now, take your ball and go home..... please.

I don't believe that disclaimer is necessary. Every non-moderator's posts here are their opinion, by definition.

Not that I agree with BF.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Yes my show is my own but ultimately I'm working for the owner or manager . . . whoever is paying me at the end of the night. And if that person is happy, that's everything.

I've always felt this way but it was brought home to me for real a few years ago when my classic rock & roll (50s, 60s, 70s) band got booked into a venue that was mostly sub 30 year olds with a few more mature patrons.

We were doing our ususal show. The place was filling up and no one was leaving. Although we weren't doing "their" music a lot of younger people were getting up and dancing and having a good time.

Mid-way through the first set the manager that night (not the owner who had hired us after listening to our promo CD) came up and demanded, not asked, that we play more current stuff. The manager was about 25 years old. I tried to explain to him that our set list is comprised of songs we know and that we aren't able to do songs that we don't know.

The set continued and by the time the first set was over the place was full and really hopping. The "kids" were really enjoying what we were doing. And the cash register was ringing constantly.

At the break the manager asked to see us in the office. He told us that we were the wrong band for the room and that he wanted us to pack up and leave. He paid us for the whole night and we did what he asked.

As we were packing up the guy who was the DJ there, and who's equipment was already sitting at the side of the stage, started setting up his show.

As we were leaving a number of people, in a variety of age groups, asked why we were leaving and told us that they really enjoyed what we were doing.

It's pretty simple. Our customer was the manager. He paid us and whether we stayed or left was his call. He didn't like us and I don't think he had the experience or maturity to understand that what was going to impress his boss was the total take for the night. He just knew that we didn't appeal to his particular taste in music and that was enough for him.

If I work for an owner/manager he/she calls the shots. Period. I may not agree and I may not like it but this is a "golden rule" situation and in this case the golden rule is "he who has the gold makes the rules".

Whether it's my band or my karaoke show ultimately it's my business and I can choose to not work for for a particular venue. But I like to work and I try not to let a manager/owner's attitudes, bias or likes/dislikes affect where I work.

The experience I cited above was the one and only time that has ever happened in my career. Generally, the people I work for are more concerned with their bottom line than their personal preferences. To that end it's my job to keep their customers happy and to keep them coming back.

One of the things that I realize is that, at least in this area, the crowd at the venue is not my crowd. It belongs to the owner. That's not to say that people don't come specifically to see me. But I live in Wisconsin which has very restrictive DUI laws and they are vigorously enforced. Around here the day is long gone when people would drive 75 or 100 miles to see their favorite band. The majority of people seem to have established their own "comfort zone" with regard to how far they will travel. They don't go outside of that. The result is that for the most part, the crowd is local and much of the time that means "neighborhood".

My product is entertainment, regardless of the form. It's the only reason my band or my karaoke show exists.

To me the ultimate measure of success is the z-tape at the end of the night. I get a lot of personal satisfaction when I know that people had a good time. But if that's not reflected by dollars spent my personal satisfaction doesn't mean a lot to the success of my business.

The utltimate arbiter of success is the person who is paying me. If I'm making money for the venue, I'll be back (except for that one experience). I realize that I'm I nice guy and all and I'm pleasant to have around. But that doesn't mean much unless I provide a return on investment for the venue. If I can't do that I'm welcome as a paying customer but not as a kj.

Larry

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"Life is too short for diet soda and lite beer"

It's obvious when you make statements comparing your singers to monkeys and you are the organ grinder that makes them perform.

There is more than one way to express "I WAS ONLY KIDDING". One of them is the rim shot drum beat that you used. Had you attacked me individually, I probably would have just laughed it off but when you make such a generalization about ALL karaoke singers, I couldn't help but speak up for ALL of us.

I missed nothing, Chip. You threw in the "ba-da-boom" in an effort to coma across as politically correct by trying to make your true feelings seem like you were kidding when that is PROBABLY how you actually feel. I quoted the "ba-da-boom" because, to me, it was the same as you saying "JUST KIDDING"

LAST BUT NOT LEAST....I'M ALREADY HOME(with my balls.ba-da-boom) living my so called life, just like you are...... Funny how you tell me that I need to get a life and both of us are sitting around the house on a Saturday afternoon doing exactly the same thing.......checking out a karaoke forum in between doing other things around the house. I've been trying to learn a few new songs in the living room. What are you doing, tuning up your ORGAN? JUST KIDDING!!!