Karaoke Forums

Which is why I tip even for free refills, usually a dollar a drink or refill. Bartenders never seem to have a problem with me being there, and in fact say "we've missed you" if I don't show up for a while.

(Cue our crusading anti non-drinker to condemn me for tipping well, as tips don't show up on the ringout.)

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

If you know someone isn't spending, go ahead & bring it up to the staff, it's their job aftyer that, not yours. You are hired to entertain nothing more. If the sdtaff don't do anything after that, then it's probably not a place that I would want to work.

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There was a guy on another forum that was throwing a fit he got barred from his local venue. Come to find out, he wasn't supporting the bar at all. He didn't want to drink alcohol, no problem - pay for non-alcoholic drinks! He didn't want to eat their fatty foods... again, no problem, when questioned, he admited they had other foods that were better for him.

The point was, he was a non-spender, and thought his singing contributed to the bar. yeah, that went over like a lead balloon!

Yay for the bar! That is just exactly what should happen.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I'll leave you ALL with these thoughts about the value to you of being vigilant about ALL aspects of yours show. AND TO ME IT IS ALL ABOUT RUNNING A BUSINESS

- What is the possible upside to your business to ignore a problem that YOU have the ability to resolve.

- Management may or may not be aware of the situation

- Management, at best, will leave it to you to resolve, at worst, they will THROW someone out

- You do have a reputation to protect

- You loose when you invest (money and/or energy) in promoting a new show that fails within the first few weeks. If nothing else, when you get your next show, some of the people who ENTHUSIASTICALLY came to the last NEW show (that died an awful death) may hesitate putting your NEXT NEW SHOW on their calendars until it proves to be durable. I know, as I singer, I've been put into that position.

But so as not to beat this horse anymore... I'll add one more bit of reality.

The place I ranted about a couple years back had the following staff on hand:
The cook, the barmaid, two wait people and a busboy. The barmaid was kinda in charge.

And who, may I ask, among them should have been concerned about a couple of freeloaders spread among a 1/2 dozen tables of people who were spending money? Who from the staff is going to go over and individually address the few freeloaders, in from of the other 20 or so total bodies, and single each one out in front of the "ENTIRE PLACE"?

And, who among that staff had the authority to do that? And if you were the person in charge on that staff... how would you have approached each of the 4-6 freeloaders, and handled the matter?. And if the barmaid did take it upon herself, she'd have to leave the bar and go into the dining area and be away from the bar for whatever time that effort would involve.

And... would the freeloaders be invited to leave? Because if they weren't, nothing would be gained.

Is it not easier, more efficiency, more practical and more businesslike for a KJ to let freeloaders know that there is a policy in force and that they are wasting their time coming to his/her karaoke show with the expectation that they will sing for FREE? And as that policy is enforced by that KJ in every venue, at every show, regardless of who may be around from management, there will eventually be no question about what the expectation is of that KJ!

Then the freeloaders will all have to find shows the like ones run by those of you who want to leave the problem up to management. I agree with that in so long as there are KJ"s who are ignoring the problem the people who are not welcome at other shows will have someplace to go, making it easier for the other shows who don't want them!

Lastly, and ironically, I had started my rant a few years back in a thread that was posted because the OP, a KJ, was upset that the owner had thrown out a good singer who wasn't spending any money week in and week out! The singer was well-liked and yada, yada, yada! Well.... much more than half the respondents on that thread thought the owner was a jerk!

So... what happened to leave it up to management?

I never expected to see this much discussion on this subject. But while were here, what about the new bar you go into, and the owner asks about your following. Are you an entertainer, of a rent a drunk service.

............................................................................................................

I have a dozen "followers" that are drinkers, and about 6 that don't or Can't drink anymore. If I am in a bar, I drink at least 1 bottled water an hour. I cant drink carbonated drinks, citric drinks, or alcoholic drinks. But I do support any bar that I am occupying a seat in or working in.

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

Either way, jerk or no jerk, he was running his business the way he wanted and not relying on a KJ to make his business decsions for him.

Eric, actually under the law in the vast majority of jurisdictions, the staff have the right to remove people from the premises. Further the staff is in a much better position than a host to ascertain who is and is not supporting the the bar. A host, unless he or she owns the premises or is actually staff, has no authority to remove anyone. I have no problem if a host brings something to the attention of staff, however, once done, it becomes the responsibility of staff.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

absolutely Tim!

You can as the host OBSERVE that there's a table of freeloaders. That's when I usually start prompting over the mic, "hey, we have all sorts of specials here, ask your server. Don't be a bum and make us toss you out for not spending, cause it takes money to ensure the success of the show! If the venue is loosing money, you can best bet the first thing they'll do is cut off the entertainment. If you like my show, support the bar!"

Nope. What I'm saying is that you really have no CHOICE. If the venue allows them there, and you go against the venue's management, they have everyright to fire you because while they may accept the freeloader, they may NOT accept a host attempting to usurp their perogative. No matter where you work, if you don't do what the people who pay you want, they will fire you.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I'd say the same thing if you were hosting for millennials. I'm actually finding myself counseling my singers to slow down so they don't throw up more than anything.

Contrast that to this Elks job I sometimes do, where a table of 8 or so "always there" regulars will spend, according to the bartender, maybe $25 for the night.

The whole table.

One room will survive this recession. One won't.

I guess, after all, I have one last post

For those of you who, in effect, insist that non-spenders are management's problem, you are performing a dis-service to yourself and newer KJ's who may be encountering this problem for the first time, if only as a matter of discussion on this forum.

In my part of the world (S Fl), home of the early-bird special and a plethora of discounts for seniors, this can be a real problem, depending on the age group you attract to your show.

I work with my wife at my show. Why? Because I feel that I have more than enough things to handle that I can't do justice to my customers without an assistant.

So, I ask, why would I go to the trouble to prepare myself as to what I would do/say to a freeloading customer, or group of customers? It would surely be easier for me to leave it, as so many have suggested, to management! Well, I have seen the dynamics of what happens. If you would like to believe that you should keep your distance from something that impacts YOUR show... by all means, do so. What I have described has caused the deaths of many a karaoke show!

If nothing else, how many of you would like to wait in line to sing behind 6 freeloaders. So many of you bemoan transitional music/bumper music/dance music as an interference with your opportunity to sing. How would you like to know you're waiting to sing behind people who are not supporting the show, while you dropped $15 to enjoy your night out?

And then there are the KJ's who assert how they, not management, run their karaoke show... I guess that's true only when it's not a real problem that has to be dealt with. When it's a difficult problem... just excuse yourself, bow out, and hope management fixes it. Sure..you run your show!!!

Lastly, why am I harping on this... it provides no benefit to me do so? Because... if the day comes that your show's future is in jeopardy... you may have been thinking about what you might do if you're confronted with the problem that I have described. And while you may still consider leaving it to management.... I urge you to think about the problem and what you might do long before you first encounter it.

Hopefully, you'll have plenty of time to do so! But with this recession, the first many of you have really experienced, the world is about to change regarding how often you might encounter freeloaders....

As for me, I have been thinking about the problem for years, and hopefully what I plan to do (several different plans/different circumstances) will work.

Hey Charm is that wagon a CONESTOGA???? A 68 Chevy IMPALA?? A WOODIE or a LITTLE RED WAGON!??????

Either way I think its a GREAT CHOICE and I am VERY HAPPY FOR YOU!!!

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

If a patron is not spending then the barstaff/witstaff is NOT SELLING PROPERLY! That is SALES and a management issue and not something the KJ should be involved with.

However the KJ can certainly talk up the guests with announcements about buying specials or trying the food or reminding them to "Support" the bar and show. That IS PROMOTION and something the KJ should be involved with.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

I have never really experienced this scenerio. The majority of our singers also spend quite a bit. The non spenders are a minority, but then when it happens it is not my responsibility. If the bar allows them to remain in there, it IS their problem!!!

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As I have suggested, the respondents to my position on this subject have absolutely no experience with what I have described and I am familiar with here, in S Fl. So, I must wonder, why those lacking said experience would be so adamant about how best to react, or actually to not react at all in such circumstances?

("it happens" in the preceding refers to the existence of identifiable freeloaders at a show)

And in regard to the preceding, I want to know where in the Karaoke Host's Manual it indicates who has responsibility for dealing with freeloaders?

Ah, but what cannot be appreciated by those lacking any experience with this problem is that it ALSO can become and has become a problem for the KJ/businessman trying to run profitable/successful shows here in S Fl! And for those who continue to post, so emphatically, that it is the BAR's problem you're probably wrong, generally speaking, but I know you're definitely wrong when it comes to the scenarios I have encountered.

And trying to convince others on the forum, which I guess that's what you're doing, to leave such problems to management is a disservice to those who might have to one day deal with what I have experienced and described. Rather... my posts should have caused a stir to the point where KJ's would ask... Yeah..how do I handle that situation? Has anyone any experience in doing so? Well, without getting into specifics, my philosophy is quite simple ---- the freeloader comes to sing... that's all they care about... that's all they want to do. And as the KJ, I HOLD THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM.... plain and simple!

Lastly, I have yet to experience this problem as a KJ. But as I have indicated... I have considered the possible specific. scenarios in my mind as to how I will react if I do run into one of these "groups" of freeloaders. And... as someone noted in another thread regarding this subject.... the biggest problem is with senior citizens!

Yup, I knew it. 5 days later and here we are....

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

We've been going around this for days, but those of us with fewer non-spender problems really gear our shows towards a younger group.

I know that was the only plan I had at the start. I had a group of singers passionate about bringing karaoke up to contemporary levels in the area, and we found a sleepy off the beaten path bar that would give it a shot. The only one that would.

I violated all the KJ rules at the start. I wouldn't let the seasoned singers in the area sing unless their songs fit the format. And I got cussed out a lot. But we got the room off the ground. And then some.

Today I run a fair rotation because the room has established itself. In the meantime I've found that the lack of language restrictions and high SPLs is pretty self-regulating anyway.

I HAVE HAD ABOUT ALL THIS CRAP I AM GOING TO TAKE

discrimination

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Eric if you have problems with a bar full of freeloaders and you think it's your responsibility, that's fine. If you don't want freeloaders to participate, and you "hold the keys to the kingdom", then your solution is simple. DO NOT LET THEM SING.

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You can be strange but not a stranger