Karaoke Forums

As a KJ I take every singer seriously

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Exactly, serious singer and karaoke in same sentence is an oxymoron. Just because you bring your own discs does not make you a serious singer. If you need another version you are not a serious singer, you should be able to do any version. I have done karaoke in the past and now do tributes, there is a definite difference.

I will use Michael Buble as an example here because he has many songs on karaoke that are covers of classic crooning songs. Many of Buble's covers have very different arrangements of these classic songs and I don't think any serious singer would be able to make these adjustments on the fly. Just because the title is the same, doesn't mean the music is the same. There are plenty of singers that bring their own discs that can't sing to save their lives but there are many others who bring their own discs that sing as well as many professional singers. There are also very many karaoke singers that have never purchased a karaoke disc that sing incredibly well but when given a different version of a song that is different than what they are used to(different key), they struggle with it and won't sing that song at that particular karaoke venue again.

How would you like it if someone swapped your tribute discs, without your knowledge, with some low quality midi files of the songs you sing? Would you be okay with that? The songs would still be the same but the quality of the music track would be horrible. You might struggle through it for the night but I bet you would make sure to have back up discs of your favorite tracks on hand in the future so it wouldn't happen again.

Compare the Sound Choice & Pop Hits Monthly versions of SEMI CHARMED LIFE. There is an entire section of the song that isn't in the SC version that is in the PHM version. It would be near impossible to sing the SC version well, on the fly, if you had only heard the PHM version before and vice versa.

When I refer to serious singers I'm talking about those people who come to my shows and expect more from the experience than simply getting up to sing. It means that the person is serious about singing karaoke whether the person is s seriously talented singer or not.

These are people who often bring their own discs and who sometimes want me to change the key, add more reverb or adjust the EQ.

I think in general the serious singers would like the kj to have high quality equipment and are somewhat more concerend with the way they sound than some other people are.

I don't think serious singers are more demanding or difficult than other singers. It's just that there approach is a little different.

Once in a while I'll run into a "really serious singer" who also dresses up to go out and sing. They enjoy their turn in the spotlight and do whatever they can to make the experience memorable for them.

Having said all of the above I also believe that skill level is not a factor in any of this. Some of the serious singers are great, and some have difficulty carrying a tune. The difference is their mindset.

I know some singers for whom Saturday night at the mic is the highlight of their entire week. I respect that. As a kj it's my job to make sure that everyone gets what they came for, including the serious singers.

There is a couple that attends my shows from time to time. They bring their own CSs and she dresses to the nines. He sings classic rock and she sings show tunes. He's pretty relaxed but I can tell that when she takes the mic it's her dream come true. She's not the greatest singer in the world but she can carry a tune and what she lacks in talent she makes up for with enthusiasm. They are a delightful couple and I enjoy having them at my shows. If I can make her feel special for the time she's at my show I'm glad. It doesn't cost me anything.

I have to hand it to the crowd. When she sings they respond. I think they enjoy her effort and her attitude.

Larry

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"Life is too short for diet soda and lite beer"

Bruce, "serious singer" and "quality singer" are two entirely different animals. I'm sure most KJs here would tell you they have many "quality singers" at their shows, including Chip. These are people who are going out to have fun and happen to have a nice voice that people appreciate hearing.

"Serious singers" are the one who walk in with high expectations of adoration, generally don't drink or bring very little revenue into the bar and bark orders at the KJ because they aren't being projected loud enough to be heard 3 blocks away. They take themselves far too seriously, and expect the rest of us to do that, as well. Let me know where you work and I'll send mine to YOUR show.

birdofsong

Rather biting for a first post.

As a former "serious singer" by parts of your definition, I find your characterization not only wrong but insulting and lacking in empathy. I just started singing less than 4 years ago. I was very interested in improving and doing my best, and didn't really understand music or singing. When you don't know that much, you place exaggerated importance in things which really don't matter. Shown a bit of understanding and tolerance, and given some time, those "serious singers" improve over time.

Not to mention the fact that many KJs, through laziness or inattention, fail to provide the ability for singers to hear themselves well. When you are a beginning singer, this is quite important to doing your best. Once you have some experience, it is less important. But hosts should know this and understand the problems singers are laboring under. Are you one of those hosts who buries the singer in the mix? Just guessing. That would be the usual reason for people asking to be turned up.

As for "bringing very little revenue", that is far from true for everyone. A lot of "serious singers" bring friends. I know that every owner of every place that sees me come back after not having been there for a while, comes over and says "we've missed you, we wish you would come more often". That isn't because of my winning personality or my singing.

Bottom line is that without your singers showing up week-in, week-out, you are nothing as a karaoke host. I am sure every disparaging KJ whose show goes over well is sure that it is their winning personality that drives the show, but I don't believe it a bit. I have seen successful shows run by total non-entities, dynamite singers and stage personalities, and everything in between. It is the crowd that makes up a karaoke show, and the singers provide the base for that. If they didn't, why even have karaoke?

I bet you despise a lot of people. There are better places to be than that, believe me.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Yikes! I've been reading this forum for a great many months, and thought it was time to join the ranks. Perhaps I should have started with: "Hello, my name is..." Do me a favor and let me know how long I have to be here to express an opinion that may differ from that of others. I didn't read that part in the acceptance agreement when I registered.

I don't despise anyone (except maybe my ex-husband), and my comment had nothing to do with a characterization of someone's singing ability or their interest in improvement. Only the behavior of what I consider falls under the category of serious singer. I wasn't naming names or intending on being insulting of anyone here, but after 13 years of KJing, I've found that there are far too many people who take themselves so seriously that they destroy what I consider the core purpose of Karaoke, which is to have fun. The people I'm speaking of (which again, has nothing to do with their ability or interest in improving) tend to carry more ego than manners. I'm sorry if you took afront to that.

I have no illusions of grandeur as a host. I believe the bar makes a show successful, first and foremost, and then the equipment and song selection, and THEN the host. The most successful place I've ever worked, which I'm currently working at still, has about a two hour rotation, many great singers, and tons of people with personality, stage names, over-the-top showmanship, etc. These are not the people I'm referring to when I say "serious singer." The difference between them and the ones I AM talking about is that they go there to have a good time with their friends, and get in an occasional song. The ones I was characterizing are not well suited for this type of environment, because there is not nearly enough stage time, and people aren't as attentive to them when they do sing. And yes, they don't spend as much because they're not there to eat, drink and be merry.

You've made a lot of assumptions about me, my disposition, my hosting ability, the way I run my shows, my outlook on humanity, etc., from one rather tongue-in-cheek post. Your assumption that I bury my singers in the mix is quite wrong. I do everything I can to showcase and highlight them. After mixing for 13 years, I ought to know what I'm doing. I also make sure that the audience gives each singer attention when they've finished. Nobody leaves the stage without applause.

Again, I had no intent on offending anyone, and apologize if I did. I do, however, stand behind my characterization, however it differs from yours.

birdofsong

I'm surprised to be agreeing with Brucefan4life, but I thought he had some good points.

I think there is some blurring of the serious singer and good singer labels.
I've seen some serious singers-some are good and some are just serious.
I've seen some VERY good singers that weren't all that serious. Some are just gifted.
Some don't think that much of it, they have a day job and don't sing for money.
I appreciate good singers and wish more people who sang Karaoke were better singers.
I see that even the not so good to bad singers enjoy singing and they have fun doing it.
Serious, not serious, good, not so good-Karaoke is a great way to go out and socialize, make new friends, drink, have fun etc.

Karaoke has been a great self esteem builder for me. I discovered that I had a talent and a gift and I eventually decided to make singin my career and my life's work recently. I guess that makes me a serious singer. I rarely go to sing at Karaoke anymore. I want to get paid when I sing. I practice quite a bit and never sing songs that I don't know. I only sing songs that I've rehearsed and know really well because I feel like I am held to a higher standard and need to be really good when I sing out in public.

On the other hand.

To me music is love. Sharing music with others is a beautiful thing and I feel blessed to be involved in something so worthwhile and positive. Karaoke makes the world a better place and enhances peoples' lives, but only a small fraction of the people sing well. Some people take singing seriously and some don't. At Karaoke shows you get all kinds- it's a form of entertainment that is both passive and participatory and I think that's one thing that many people like.

For over 60 years I have sang in many situations and to huge crowds. I sing for the pure enjoyment it gives listeners and emotions I get. I am not a serious singer for I will sing anything anytime anywhere and dont care what I sound like.

There are times to get serious. When someone I lose passes and I silently dedicate a song to them like Go Rest High.. I get very serious and sing from the heart. Those songs I need to memorize because I cant read the screen with wet eyes.

Sometimes there is a full table of good looking gals watching. I tend to get serious for a few minutes. Music has never been my vocation but my release from my vocation and the rat race of life. It is a time to let every thing go relax and talk to the world. It is a time of peace, joy and truth. It is a time to not be serious, no role playing but presenting oneself to the world in an honest fashion. It is playtime and party time.

Forget about the serious crap and giving a stellar performance everytime you sing. Relax and stretch your limits. Then some day you will be unique and have your own style and people will call you a singer and request their favorite songs. There is a difference between being a mimic and singing in your own style.

Here is your first assignment Sing Crazy in the style of Louis Armstrong until you get it right. You think Im nuts? Try it....

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I would love to see a video of you singing Karyoker. Do you have any video footage?

I'm in the process of making some video and audio recordings and as soon as I have several made I'll put them up on Youtube.

I did a gig at a senior community on Friday and I performed at a VFW on Saturday night. I specialize in oldies.

Looks like chip finally got his girlfriend to come by and stick up for him. They both seem to have a problem with people who show up at their shows who can sing well. Amazing to me how people who make a living from people who like to sing, have such issues with the handful of people that sing very well. It seems to be some sort of a jealousy issue if you ask me. I've seen it before with KJ's who think that the audience goes to a karaoke venue to hear the KJ sing and then the KJ gets his nose out of joint when one of the "serious" or "quality" singers gets more attention than the KJ does after singing a song. They seem to twist it around and make it about how much money they spend or how much they want to be heard. DUH! Who goes to karaoke and doesn't want to be heard????? Some KJ's just don't give a damn about making their customers feel comfortable. They'd rather have a "CHIP" on their shoulders and take it out on the customers who sing well because they ENJOY singing well. These kinds of KJ's seem to think that the good quality singers only come out to SHOW OFF, and not to just "have fun".

I've seen the ugliness of jealousy in the last 2 or 3 years since I started singing. It's a shame. It drives me away from places where either the owner, host or patrons act that way. It's garbage and extreme negativity. I admire good singers and enjoy their performance. If they're arrogant though, it ruins it for me. Turns me off.

BruceFan4Life whined;

Bruce, you're amazing..... where in ANY of these posts does it specifically say that I "have a problem" with people that can sing well?


Apparently, you feel that you are some "star that sings well?" Guess what, there are LOTS of other singers that I'm sure can out-sing you without breaking a sweat since you obviously feel it's some sort of "competition" you must win. The difference is that they're interested in enjoying the evening just as well as performing a song well. You must see yourself as some sort of "star" that the audience just can't wait for your "turn" to wow them again. If you were truly as good as you'd like to believe, there wouldn't be any other singers would there? It'd simply be the "Bruce Concert Night" because the audience wouldn't want to hear anyone but you...

You seem to be the one with the EGO PROBLEM. If you are watching the "rotation" closer than the KJ, you're waay too "serious" in the wrong way....

Here's one of your quotes, Chip:

"Isn't the the terms "Serious Singer" and "karaoke" used in the same sentence and/or context make it an oxymoron?"

That quote shows your obvious contempt for "serious" karaoke singers. It's as plain as the nose on your face.

I'm not saying that I sing better than anyone else. I also don't mind waiting my turn to be a "star" just like everyone else. You are the one that is trying to put these traits on me and you don't even know me.

Here's another quote from you:

"You seem to be the one with the EGO PROBLEM. If you are watching the "rotation" closer than the KJ, you're waay too "serious" in the wrong way"

It's a shame that any singer has to keep an eye on the rotation, and they wouldn't have to if certain KJ's didn't do such a poor job of keeping the rotation fair. There are plenty of KJ's that use their job as an opportunity to let their friends sing out of turn or to take bribes to let people sing out of turn. You want to cast aspersions on these singers who pay attention because they point out the short comings of certain KJ's. I can't help but wonder as to why that concerns YOU so much. Hmmmmm! I know a lot of singers who enjoy karaoke and not one of them is happy when they get skipped. I guess they should all stop paying attention so the bad KJ's of the world can run their rotations any way they choose to?????

Wow, this thread seems to have touched some very strong emotions! Sometimes I wonder whether there is room for everyone's ideas on this forum or not.

I've been hosting karaoke for a couple of years now. I'm certainly not the most experienced host in the world and wouldn't claim to know everything. I learn a lot from following these threads both from other hosts as well as the singers who express their opinions.

If I have learned anything from my expperience and from attending other host's shows it is that the host isn't the show . . . it's the singers.

I've also found that there isn't any one kind of singer, at least at my shows. Some people want to sing once, some want to be in the rotation all night. Some get a little liquid courage and get onstage just to have fun. Others want to impress their date/spouse. Some are really serious about what they are doing. Generally speaking skill level has little to do with why a singer is up on stage. Of the "serious" singers who attend my shows, roughly half are not especially good singers. Of the other half there is a broad range between pretty good and highly skilled singers some of whom are of pro caliber.

Regardless of motive, all of the singers deserve a measure of respect from me. As the host I believe my job is to see that each singer gets whatever he/she wants from the experience. I'm a facilitaor; no more and no less. It's really about customer relations. I try to approach each singer the same way; what can I do to make sure that you get what you want out of singing at my show? In my view that's a pretty simple concept and it seems to be working out well for me.

Larry

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"Life is too short for diet soda and lite beer"

I grow tired of your rantings and BS. Come out to Greeley. You will not harass or insult the listeners at the bar. You will not insult or try to influence my host. You will not try to force your rules upon my format. I have very few rules and you will adhere to them or you will not sing. If you come in with an attitude my crowd or singers will cut you off in a heartbeat. Take your flippin rules and put them where the sun doesnt shine. We dont need them out here because we are grownups and have matured into an adult type of karaoke. Karaoke nuts come here and leave because we play dance music and they get mad and leave... BYE!!! We do not adhere to 90% of the old or karaoke laws argued about here but we do generate a 2k to 3k till for the night and I can ask for more money. Can you?

We provide a professional service and will no longer will engage in these frivolous childish arguments. It has been fun but it has grown old and reflects negatives in google searches. . I will continue to follow the advise and track trends or new concepts on this forum and seek the advise of those pros who are currently ahead of the competition and trying to stay ahead. As an engineer I will provide advise when applicable and contribute to solutions.

Thank You
Ollie Smith
Cabaret Karaoke

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Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

Bruce, I'm assuming if you can shoot off a post like this, then you're capable of reading, in which case I'd like to invite you to actually go back and read my last post, which you apparently neglected to do. Nothing I said gave any indication that I didn't enjoy singers who sang well, or even singers that don't, that I'm in any way jealous of anyone, that I didn't make my customers comfortable, or that I in any way equated quality singers with the ones I was characterizing. It's amazing how well you profess to know me without having any idea who I am, how I think, what I believe in and without asking for clarification about what I was really getting at. You're either a mind-reader or a sh**-stirrer. I'm guessing the latter.

I've been watching the forum for the past several months, and as far as I can tell, your M.O. is to pick apart people's posts, especially certain people, at will, and mischaracterize them as horrible, egotistical hosts that hate everyone and everything. Don't you have anything better to do?

If you want to know me, ask questions, don't make assumptions. Until then, I have no interest in dealing with you whatsoever.

birdofsong

Golly Bruce, looks like my "girlfriend" doesn't care for you much either....

You can express your opinion at any time. So can I, which apparently you don't like. I have found that people who want to share their religion with you rarely want you to share yours with them.


I am glad you don't despise people. It would be more apparent if you didn't speak disdainfully of them.


That's your idea of karaoke. And apparently you are not tolerant of anyone who might deviate from it, even in degree.


I took exception at the general disparaging tone, *particularly* toward people who want themselves turned up so that they can hear. You apparently think that makes someone a "serious singer" deserving of ridicule. I think it usually means that the karaoke host is not doing their job. I don't ask things like that much anymore at all, because some hosts are simply not very nice about such a request. They figure they have X years of experience -- who is the stupid singer to ask for what they want?

As a host, when I get such a request, I try to accommodate it. I even more accommodate it by having a monitor, which many hosts don't make the effort to do.


If I get you right, all karaoke singers should keep their mouth shut, be satisfied with singing infrequently and not worry about hearing themselves. They are there to perform their function as a cash cow to be bled. They should take nothing seriously except your rules. If they backslide and over-focus their desire to get better, they should accept your disdain as you talk behind their back about how they are taking themselves too seriously. All the while having fun while doing this.

I bet if you had only that type of singer you would soon find your show to be withering away. It literally takes all kinds. The "serious singers", or perhaps more importantly ones that have some attributes of that, provide the week-in / week-out base that casual singers won't.

I guess they are just supposed to be born as experienced singers, or are to only improve as fast as a very casual approach allows them to do.


Touche. I feel the same way about your characterizations.


Then why would they ask to be turned up? I have rarely had such a request -- usually my requests are to turn the music up in the monitor. And guess what? I listen to the request and cheerfully do it. If they want more or less effects, I accommodate that too. Not that they often ask, mind you. I suspect they don't want some karaoke host to look at them like they are an idiot.


You ought to. But I have never come across a host who thought they did a bad mix. And I will tell you there is a lot of bad sound out there.

A lot of hosts either 1) don't realize that vocals are their money channel, or else 2) are under instructions to bury the singer in the mix. I've even run across a deaf karaoke host, who I personally like but whose shows I couldn't attend.


That is assuming, I presume, that they have comported themselves in the proper carefree fashion while keeping their mouth shut.


Mine differs from yours in that I believe many of today's "serious singers" are tomorrows "quality singers". I also think that some of your "quality singers" have many of the same attributes you ascribe to the "serious singers". Your definition is unforgiving and starkly black-and-white, and as such I think it is utter hooey.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

The problem here (other than your apparent interest in picking apart everything I have to say) seems to be the difference in our definitions. If you honestly believe I'm defining "serious singer" in the same way that you are, then I'm sure you would have a problem with the characterization. I was simply commenting on a very narrow segment of the Karaoke population. My definition of "serious singer" is not a singer that takes singing seriously. It's a singer that takes themselves too seriously. Those people make up about less than 1% of the types of people that would come into one of my shows at any given time. I was not commenting on the bulk of my patrons, who, by the way, don't seem to have a problem with the way I run my show, and seem to like me just fine. Frankly, I like them just fine, too. You seem to think just because I say I mix well that I must be wrong, because I commented that there are "serious singers" who want to be so loud that they can be heard 3 blocks away. So if I defend myself, I most certainly must be wrong. Fine.

In all of this, there is one thing I have not done, and that is personally attack you. Pity you can't say the same of your treatment of me. I have apparently touched a nerve with you, and apologized for that more than once, and you've been less than gracious. Thank you for the wonderful welcome to the board.

birdofsong