Karaoke Forums

This is sort of a spinoff of the post about dealing with bad behavior as a KJ.

How important is it for a KJ to have some knowledge of self-defense? This is mainly geared toward hosts who work in bars, where people get drunk and occasionally get violent.

I remember a time, Christmas Eve '06 actually, I was getting the first singers lined up for rotating. An old friend's mother (Mary*) and her friend (Dave*)were at the bar. I've known these people quite some time. Dave comes along (seemingly a little drunk) and tries to get me to put Mary up to sing. I asked Mary prior and she said she did NOT want to sing. So I didn't put her up. About 20 minutes later, Dave marches up and asks me why Mary hasn't been up yet. I told him "because she said she didn't want to sing." So he calls me an ---hole. Seeing as I've known this guy through my friend, I figure he's joking with me. He's always been nice to me in the past. I say back "I'm an ---hole??" He then socks me in the mouth. I was shocked. I didn't know what to do. Came outta nowhere. Now, I am definitely not a fighter, and I didn't want to start anything back, so I said nothing else, and simply turned the other way.

What would other's have done in my situation? What if it was someone you knew? What if it was a stranger? As a KJ, professionalism is key. You don't want to go getting into fights, but how do you deal with an angry drunk who's upset that you didn't let him sing (or you didn't get him up fast enough, or you told him he couldn't have his drink on stage, etc...)?

_________________
"K-Jay"
www.kjayskaraoke.8m.com

The first rule of KJing is "Protect the equipment" so from the KJ standpoint you did exactly the right thing. From the Id driven, testosterone crazed, male perspective you did the most difficult but legally correct thing and did not retaliate. Not easy to do I congratulate you.

To not get punched in the future, I suggest that you be courteous and truthful in the extreme, because even when you're drunk it's hard to get mad at that. That has been working for me for many years and I Pi$$ people off all the time.

_________________
Okay, who took my pants?

That was what you call assault and battery....plain and simple. You are most likely permitted by law to defend yourself at a level to prevent bodily harm to yourself. This varies by the state (or equiv.). In every case, physical violence should be avoided. When it comes to someone swinging at you, or coming at you with a weapon, you should be able to act at the MINIMUM required to defend yourself in the situation. However, the best case scenario requires you have witnesses around who will testify on your behalf in case you are sued.

Of course you're permitted to defend yourself.... and since the other guy "swung first", I'd have done my best to beat him to a pulp.... in self defense of course....

My theory is simple; "If you're going to decide when it starts, I'LL decide when it's ends."

I have no sympathy for those who get drunk and then fight. Expecially when they apologize later and attempt to blame it on the alcohol.... Which is stupid because nobody forced them to get drunk, they did it on their own and even paid the bar for the privilige to do so. Therefore they should be fully responsible for their own actions.

Actually had my first physical encounter in 15 years just a month ago when some drunk decided he didn't like the duet I was singing with a patron and attempted to take my mic away.

He found out that I wasn't about to let go and I found out that he wasn't either. I really had no choice other than to twist his microphone-laden arm to the point he fell over... right at the feet of the waiting bouncer who picked him up and shoved him out the door (which happened to be where he was standing). It was the "world's fastest ejection from a club" from my point of view.

My view is the best approach is to rely on numbers. Inevetably in the situation working in bars one is going to potentially become involved in a situation where a drunk or otherwise "upset" (crazy, stoned etc) will attempt to pick a fight.

My apporach is to attempt to de-escalate the situation while at the same time gathering support from other people in the bar who will help to escort the offending person from the premis.

As a one on one even a well trained person can get in a situation where either they or the other person can get hurt. On the other hand with 4-5 or more people ready to escort someone from the locale even a drunk may think twice, and even if force is needed the venue has enough force to maintain control.

Of course this requires familiarity and a good level of trust with the bar personell and doormen as well as the support of a few regulars who can be relied upon to maintain order.

Once a localle has a reputation for losing control in such situations it will have more and more problems in the future.

At the same time sometimes someone may say someting offensive. I have generally let such things blow off and not escalate with regulars. I had one regular get very offensive on a night about a year ago and say some extremely foul language because he was not singing as much as he wished (it was busier than usual). I did not respond and although he skipped a couple of weeks afterwards, he has returned to being a well behaved regular for the last 20-30 shows, and we have never mentioned the "incident". On the other hand I would be much less inclined to take such foul language from non-regulars, and if he had not been a regular I probably would have gotten him kicked out.

Wow--you were actually attacked. Another reason I wish we could get out of the bar and into a restaurant.

A few weeks ago a wife tracked her husband and his sweet young thing down at our venue. She and her friend burst through the door and attacked the sweet young thing. (Why not the husband?) Our burliest singer was in the middle of his song but he managed to go across the room and shove both women out the door without missing a note. Glad he was using the cheap wireless.......

.

I'll be the first to admit knowing how to defend yourself has come up a couple of times in my 14 years in the business!

I got hit in the head with a glass for protecting my equipment once.

_________________
The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Self Defense as a KJ should be no different than at any other times.

#1 - Somebodys hits you... You hit them back HARDER and with a BIGGER stick

The KEY is not to let it get that far , as a KJ working with DRUNKS you have to learn to read people and situations and try to DE-FUSE anything that looks like it can get ugly. # 1 defend yourself #2 defend your equipment #3 refer to #1

#1 - Protect the equipment. Getting into a fight is a bad thing. Be congenial and friendly, and quick with a smile. This will difuse 99.9% of any situaltion.

#2 - Someone hits you, check your balls at the door and call 911. Have him put in jail, period the end. Don't hesitat, don't stall. Pick up your cell phone, make the call. Done. If the venue doesn't support this... you don't need 'em.

This will solve your current problem, and send a message that you don't take anybody's crap.

For exceptionally dangerous encounters I have mace, and brass knuckles in my pocket.

_________________
Good music, good friends, howling good times!

Never encountered anything physical in 17 years of kj'ing. Been threatened a couple times.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Hmmm
You did the 100% right thing. It took me a LONG time to realise that the manly, impressive, skillful and downright RIGHT thing to do is to leave the fight.

I used to get into fights because I was afraid how it would look if I backed down. Sure, I never got beaten and generally "won" (whatever that means). But once I backed down, and everyone was just "Good man".

I think rather than having self defence skills (which I see as important when used defensively - I personally know Judo) I would say the ability to talk someone down is better.

In the fights I've been in, someone ELSE had to call 911. I was too busy fighting to stay alive.

Can't say I've ever come across that., but most of our people know that not only am I 6', 300 lbs, but also a retired MP.

But given that situation, my first question is where was the security and/or what did the staff do? But regardless of what they did or didn't do, charge the idiot with assault.

Now retaliating right then and there (you are allowed to use as much force as necessary to defend yourself but excessive force can come back and bite you in the a$$) should be thought carefully . Yes you can get into it, but what about your equipment? I think most do not want to knock your stuff down and breaking it, leaving you withuot a show. Yes you can sue for damages but chances are trying to get them to pay will be even a bigger pain in the a$$, meanwhile you will have to rent, rebuy or whatever.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

What have your thoughts been regarding that experience during the last two years? Do you really think that KJ's have to hone self-defense skills? I have NEVER seen a KJ attacked in the 11 years I have attended karaoke shows.

As for me, I am getting too old to fight... and too smart to hang around one. I say... I come first not the equipment so I am outta there!

You may want to consider using the microphone as a quick equalizer, if necessary. It'll deliver a great sucker punch while you try to exit the fray!

Of course, you should have pressed charges....

It's always easier to sing wtih a full set of teeth (or at least with no more missing than you already have).

After you've sung for awhile, it gets easier to recognize certain tactics people use to draw others into a conflict, but it sounds pretty hard to avoid what happened to JayM8377 in the original post.

I guess at this point you play the Na-Na-Na-Na, Hey Hey Hey, Goodbye song as the instegator gets bounced?

These situations occur occasionally and sometimes have nothing to do with you. Somebody grab Dancing with a Wife etc, right by your equipment. Customer Wants to Sing Right Now! Without any info!
But the Worst are when Bars offer Kegs to a group for a Party. That's when you really have to observe what the mood, trend is in the Establishment for that time.
Also a few of these clubs have no males working so until the cops are called things can be unpredictable.

Yes, self-defense skill in the wine bar or karaoke bars are very important. Every singers should know this, it't benefits for you !
alien

_________________
English karaoke songs, karaoke player

After a singer has had several beers, there can be sometimes a shakey line between handing the kj a song slip and punching the kj in the nose. The targets aren't that far apart then!

Not a Problem here. I got a 5th Degree black belt in [font=Comic Sans MS]Karateoke[/font]

_________________
______________________________________
I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !