Karaoke Forums

Right, I seem to be copping a lot of flack for stating I hate the diva attitude. I want to set the record straight.

1) I believe a number of people misunderstand my meaning of the word "Diva". In the UK it is used in a mocking sense...

Shirley Bassey is a true Diva in the original sense. Lindsey Lohan could be said to be a "Diva" in the sense I am using.

I love singers in the original sense of Diva. I cannot stand people in the "Diva" sense I am using.

2) It actually makes very little reference to singing ability. More a reference to the personality...

You can be a great singer, a great entertainer and a crowd pleaser without being a "Diva".

You can be the worst singer ever with no personality, and still be a "Diva".

You can be both a Diva and "Diva" at the same time.

3) I (as most people) would rather hear a better singer than a poorer singer...

However, I would rather meet a nicer person than a self-centred, conceited egomaniac.

4) I discriminate against nobody. That is not what I am paid to do. However, I am free to chose the venues I play (easily replaced - both me and the gig) and the bars I drink at...

I have pulled out of running gigs, because I have seen a "Divas" vs regulars resentment grow. The "Divas" driving the atmosphere down, regulars not bothering so much anymore...

I have never returned to venues that have put me off by catering to the "Divas". Groups of people have done the same (some my friends, some other groups I have seen).

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I think a few examples are called for:

In a local pub in Bedford where I randomly found they had karaoke...

I started going with a friend every wednesday evening. There were about 5 people there, and after a few weeks, I'd doubled the number - with friends, etc - and it kept growing. But ultimately it was an intimate little venue. When people were singing, the conversations would continue - but quietly.

There were some fair singers, and some downright terrible singers - but the atmosphere was like a group of friends enjoying themselves. And then this girl came in... She was of Latin American heritage, and spoke with quite a whiney, high-pitched voice. She sat alone and drank water. I tried to chat to her a few times, welcome her into our little circle of tables, and she was quite rude in her manner of declining - but we put this down to a possible language barrier or such...

She decided to sing "Alice Cooper - Poison" one night. So she got up, and gargled water in front of everyone, and swallowed it. Then the song kicks in... As she was clearing her throught ("Hmm hmm hmm") she missed the first bar. Glared at the host and he simply shrugged and restarted it - he was a good host actually. Anyhow, this time she nails it. Well, she hits the words in sort of the right timing. But the voice... Ever heard a cat doing an impression of Yoda? Me either. Until then! It was terrible, it actually hurt (people say that a lot, but it DID!).

Now this place, as I said, had some downright terrible singers. And she was certainly not the worst. But hey, we were all there, listening and chatting...

"Excuse meeee!" comes a high pitched roar. We all look round... "Excuse meeee, I am a seeenger and I am seeengeeeng".

Wow. She had actually stopped singing and chastised the whole room because we weren't paying her enough attention. The host simply carried the music on and have her a nod as if to say "If you're gonna sing, then sing". The whole room went "Wooooooooooooo!" She then dropped his mic onto the floor and stomped off to the toilets. Returned later and sat with her drink again.

Tried to sing again later ans was simply told "OK, but you either sing or don't - this is a bar, people talk." She never came back.

THAT sums up "Diva" to me.

OR

A nightclub in Leicester, where I live - on Sundays they would open the bar area and have karaoke. It wasn't that well run nor was it well populated, but we loved karaoke and so we went. We would sit fairly far from the stage as there was something of a group of us, and didn't want to look like we were taking over in any way.

Two girls (late 20s?) came in. Dressed up like Barbie dolls, but in a bad 80's fake tan and slutty clothes kinda way. They ignored the bar and walked straight to the KJ - right in front of the active singer and being quite distracting. They clearly knew him but the vibe was that he knew them but couldn't be bothered with them - like they may be regularly trouble at another gig.

They didn't buy a drink at first, which we found odd. Then a bar manager basically must have said something, as they bought two drinks and cradled them all night.

A few singers came and went, nothing stands out in my mind other than one guy's terrible shirt - so the level was average I guess. I contributed to that, as it was before I knew how to use my voice. Either way - they showed nothing - no cheering, no cringing, no awareness of anything other than themselves...

Then one gets up to sing. And she's at the same level of the room - average. But doing all her Mariah "Note up here, note down there" with her hands. Grasping the air, dropping down to one knee... All the theatrics of a great singer but with neither the voice nor the personality to entertain. But she was deadly serious...

I needed to buy a round of drinks, and had to go to the bar. 2 routes - across the room (which everyone uses) or across the DJs cables. I walk across the room, and am aware that I will pass within about 4 meters of this girl so I do the "fast walking - sorry" thing as I pass.

The this other girl yells "Get out the way". I stop and look, ready to apologise. And that's when I see it. A camcorder. She was seriously videoing her mate's performance. OK, it's a bit much, but go right ahead I guess? But ten to get so mad when someone walks past? Moreover, to then come to my table after and start yelling and complaining "You ruined my shot!"? (Told her to go sit down and grow up - "Grow up Tarantino" - shows how long ago this was for that to even be a relevant comment).

Then the 2 girls sit and glare at us. The KJ has a chuckle. The girls go up to him and start chirping. A few more singers, then the girl sings the same song - and out comes the video camera again.

DIVA!!!

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So in conclusion, to me it suggest someone who:

* Has not gone to enjoy "karaoke" but to "sing and show the little people"

* Believes the night is ALL about them

* Believes themselves to be more than they are

End of the day, it's a singer in a karaoke bar. Why are they here? Because they AREN'T singing in the charts or on a show!

You make it seem like these sorts of bad "divas" show up all of the time. I just don't see it that often and I go to a lot of different karaoke shows. My idea of a diva is someone who works the room trying to get people to put up duets so she can get to sing multiple times per rotation but she always sings a solo when it is her turn. She thinks that she deserves to sing more times than anyone else because she thinks that she is a better singer than everyone else and people really would like to hear her sing more often. That is more annoying to me than someone who thinks they sing better than they actually do. I give people their delusions if they want them but I don't give them extra turns to sing. That's why I think duets should always count for each person with a mic in their hand. If you sang, you had a turn. Go to the back of the line and wait like everyone else. One person shouldn't get one full turn(solo) and 4 or 5 half turns(duets) in one rotation, IMHO.

Where are you from? Again I say, this could be a UK thing?



I see a lot of that. Hadn't considered that part of the "Diva" vibe - but now you mention it... Am with you that it puts you back into rotation and counts as a turn.

So how would you describe the people I mentioned? The word Diva is used over ehre, referring to the spate of Diva-tantrums that the likes of Mariah and Christina are well reported to have.

I mean, we could just call these people assholes

I think you guys are discussing the same --aholes seem to be a worldwide phrase

I have a few words - DIVA (usually desribes a female) - PRIMA DONNA is another word that is used to describe certain singers. Pain in the A is another term.

Prima Donna! Bingo! Much better phrase.

I shall refrain from using the word Diva as it possibly conjures the wrong connotations for the non-UK audience

In the past I've used "diva" to describe my female singers who can actually pull this material off, not singers with attitudes. My two best Mariah singers are actually rather insecure about their abilities and just stand there.

While nailing the songs I might add.

I won't call them divas anymore if there's another connotation to the label. Even in the UK. I'll just call them good singers.

It is everywhere, but very limited around here. It doesn't matter if you *are* Mariah Carey at my show, you are going to wait your turn like anyone else.

We did sort of have one the other night at my favorite show. She walked in right after I had my turn. She had her daughter there, and talked the host into letting her sing twice "because her daughter had to go home". I just pulled my own slip and waited for my wife's turn and we left. I drive 30+ miles to get to that show, and spend $50+ dollars when I am there. I might not be back for a while. I have been going there for three years now, several times a month. I probably spend $1200 a year there, with another $300 in tips. If they want to make me listen to that woman twice while she doesn't have to sit through me once, well they can find some other person who is willing to sit for that deal.

*That* is the problem with giving into head cases like that. As long as you just tell them they have to wait their turn like everyone else, without any editorial comment, then I think the problem diminishes greatly.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I'm in the States and I always think of the word diva in a good way while understanding that some people use it in a sarcastic way to describe some of the people that you are talking about. There are quite a few very good singers in my area, both male and female, and I believe that they are the good kind of divas. They just happen to be very good singers who enjoy a night out singing karaoke. They don't go out to make other singers feel badly about their own singing but you often hear people saying that they don't want to sing right after one of the divas. They just don't want to be compared to someone who just brought the house down. It's a form of flattery in a sense. The singers that aren't as "gifted" acknowledge the fact that some people are really good singers. They compliment these "good divas" all of the time. They always request that these divas sing songs for them and these divas comply more often than not. I appreciate hearing these better singers and it doesn't seem fair that they all get lumped into one category as non drinkers, water sippers and non spenders by so many KJs. I think it's very unfair to make those kinds of universal statements.

I would have been right behind you, Mcky...and since you were nice enough to wait for your wife to sing, I might have been out the door before you. I also would have told the manager or whoever was in charge why I was leaving and I would have also told the KJ what I thought of his favoritism towards his DIVA. Now there are some KJs here that would call me a DIVA for getting upset over this scenario because what's the big deal??? It's only karaoke and what's ten more minutes of waiting time??? A fair rotation is very important to maintain a successful show unless you are in a heavy tourist area where you get new people in every week. That's just another reason why I feel that new singers should not get inserted into the rotation shortly after they arrive. They should wait just as long as the person who just got done singing. If you can't wait as long as the person who just got done singing, GO HOME with your kid and watch some TV or help them with their homework before bed time.

I have seen MANY male KJs cave in to attractive women when it comes to playing fast and loose with the rotation. I've also seen too many KJs who do the same thing with their friends and or relations. Some KJs are just on a power trip and want to show who really has the power at their show. Their way or the highway is what they tell anyone who complains. I've been to shows where bribes get you on stage lickety split and the bar owner couldn't care less that the KJ was doing it. The owner felt that if the place was crowded enough that people would be willing to pay a bribe to get a chance to sing; then the owner was making lots of money because the place was packed. Nobody pays a bribe when there are only 6 singers.

I'll second that!

I have use the word "Diva" to describe the jerks that show up to shows just like you are saying Nlouch.

They are world wide, and annoying. I treat them with distain, bellittle them and their self centered egos at every opportunity, and move on. Hopefully, so will they.

One of the main things about this type is that they suffer from low self-esteem, and try to get their ego boost from an approving crowd. Pitiful really.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

I don't treat anyone with disdain. That doesn't do any good, to my mind. It just makes you seem little while going right over the head of the intended target. The key is to not play their games.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Agreed I treat them as customers, and am professional, polite,etc.

But certainly don't go that extra mile for them.

Diva's - in the bad sense- (we use that here in the same negative way) aren't always apparent to the audience. I have 2 that regularly drive me crazy. But they don't necessarily show their diva ways to the audience.
One thinks she's so good she MUST sing NOW! Even if she comes in at the end of the night after my slots are filled.
"But I just got here!"
Tough. She doesn't sing, but she DOES drive me crazy every week telling her no and to get here early. Call her a dumb diva. She doesn't get it.
The other has a VERY loud voice (when she wants to). She insists on holding the mic at her waist while singing. In one venue, it's not a huge problem because of the volume of the system and the layout of the room, etc. I can generally work with it, but barely.
But in my other venue, it's a HUGE problem. We run at much higher volumes. The layout of the room is such that sound can bounce back and then you get the feedback starting. She gets pissed and starts shooting me dirty looks. I tell her to start eating the mic. She says "I can't do that" . Again, I sat tough, then (to myself). There's nothing I can do. I can only do so much. They have to do their part too.
When you hold the mic at your waist with the sound cranked, you're going to get feedback.
The whole time, the audience doesn't really know what's going on other than it appears to be MY fault, due to her shooting me dirty looks (she's clearly indicating it by doing this).
This is the ONLY person this happens to, BTW.
So Divas don't HAVE to be only of the self impoortant, pay-attention-to-me type.
My definition of a diva = pain in the you-know-what, regardless of how they
become one.

Diafel: After her performance that brings on all the feedback - ever considered quickly anouncing to the room how to hold a mic, so you can avoid such issues?

YEs. And I immediately threw that out the window. It would only alienate her and cause more diva-like behaviour. She has a ton of friends that she could take with her when she leaves in a huff.

No not to embarass her - to help her?

Right! But do you honestly think SHE'LL see it that way?
Not a chance!

Fair point!

Wow, it was that quiet that you heard her tell the kj that or can you read lips?