Karaoke Forums

Ok guys, I have sit back and read all the posts on badly hosted Karaoke shows that give those of us that try to do things right a good feeling down inside.

Most of the karaoke shows I have visited have been reasonably professional, but the one I visited Wednesday night was a joke.

First of all, my group arrived around 8:30. There were signs around the bar stating there would be karaoke tonight, but without a time. The barmaid said it would be at 9:00pm.

Around 9:00pm, the KJ arrived, passed out songbooks, and started setting up.
The songbooks were very thin, and all were sorted by artist. I like to be able to choose to look by artist or by song, but I can live with it. However, approximately 1/2 the artists were sorted by first name, with the other half being sorted by last name. Very hard to find songs.

- Problem 1: Very little effort and thought put into the songbooks. Hard to find the songs you want to sing, small selection of songs.


When we arrived at 8:30, the bar was nearly empty, but by 9:00, it had gotten considerably busier. I would say it went from about 10 people to about 40.

As the KJ was setting up, I noticed they had one of the new powered Eon 315 speakers. Cool. I have seen Karaoke Koyote talk about them on the forum. They also had a giant Behringer mixer, like 24 channels or something ridiculous, and a large widescreen laptop. Off to a reasonable start.....

But where is the singer monitor? the second Eon?...... nothing. Weird.

She had some problems getting the system to work correctly, and did not get started until 9:20.

- Problem 2: Not starting on time.

So I put in a slip, along with another girl in my group. She was called up right away.
She had to look at a small window on the laptop screen to see the words!! In addition, the microphones were cheap samsons that sounded only marginal. The KJ was friends with everyone in the bar, so she regularly stepped away from the mixer, and was slow to fix the mix when it needed fixing. And the Eon was sitting on the floor! No speaker stand, not even on a table or something.

- Problem 3: No singer monitor except for the KJs laptop!
- Problem 4: Substandard microphones
- Problem 5: Inattentive KJ
- Problem 6: The Eon 315 was setting on the FLOOR

I have no idea why the KJ didn't bother too hook up an external monitor. They were even set up right below a bar television that they could probably have hooked into if they had a scan converter.

And the single Eon? I mean come on. It looked and sounded great, but why not two? I know you don't absolutely have to have stereo at a show, but this just looked wrong.

I have stereo at all my shows, and usually a powered monitor, depending on the layout.

I do not demand shure sm58s at every show, but the samsons? I use Behringer, EV, and Senheiser mics at my shows. The Behringers are only $20 each, but they have pretty good sound.

Most of the people in the bar were listeners rather than singers, so we got a few songs in quickly, but we decided to leave around 11:00 pm.

What really gets me is that this setup was so unprofessional and seemingly "thrown together" just to make a buck as a KJ. Buying the bare minimum and adding as needed as the money comes in.

Meanwhile, we have invested in good quality equipment, we have the customer's interests in mind and customer satisfaction and FUN is our goal. Why do we still have so many open spots on our calendar while people like this get the good gigs? I know much of it has to do with "who you know". Many venue owners say they are giving a member of their extended family or "friend of a friend" a chance to KJ right now.

Being the professional that I am, I didn't try to steal this gig, but it left me feeling quite down that this continues.

How do you feel when you see a show like this?

I kinda figure they must be paying $50 to the KJ, hence the reason a real professional isn't doing it...

Have to say, that's about the worst I've heard.

I went to a show not long ago, and coolness of the venue and atmosphere compared to the quality of the KJ really through me for a loop.

The KJ looked like Otho from beetle juice (I mean he had on a leisure suit and everything!), and we use his computer screen as well, but the lyrics were full sized.

While his songbook was fine, and his equipment top notch, it seemed to take him forever to move to the next singer. He didn't use song slips, you just told him what you wanted to sing when you went up. I guess that's fine... I don't rely on song slips too much, I'm comfortable with people coming up and telling me, but I shouldn't take 2 minutes to get the person singing!

The Venue had a large dance floor, lighting, the works, and the bar was full.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

And people wonder why karaoke companies/kj;'s like this is turning karaoke into a joke form of entertainment, giving the impression that it's nothing but drunks & bars won't pay anymore because they only see this kind of kj/company and expect the same results from all other companies.

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I think the worst experience I had when going to another show was about 15 years ago. Me and a few friends went to what is normally supposed to be the happenin club. They were having karaoke the night we went (Sat). Got in at 8:30, supposed to start at 9. So we ordered a drink & asked if we could look through a book. The waitress said the books are with the host & he isn't here yet. Alright, so we proceed with our drinks, shoot a game of pool, about 9:15 the host comes in, fires up the system & passes out the books. New pages consisted of photocopies of the cd cover & in some cases the cd itself. The actual printed book was maybe 100 pages (but then remember this was 15 years ago). We put up our song slips - looked to be the first ones up & sit down with our new drink. Well we thought wrong. He immediately sang the first song (no big). Then called up people in the audience, so we get to thinking we weren't the first. In between singers he didn't even get the next disc ready. He'd let every song play to the end, then call up the singer THEN proceed to eject the disc & look for the new one. About 2 minutes in between singers and this was a kind estimate. Also had no knowledge or refused to adjust sound as the singers mics were WAY hotter than the music with GOBS of reverb. My friend finally got up about 6 songs in, my name never did get called and we turned in our slips together. About 20 minutes later I go up & ask where my slip is, he told me that the disc that song is on is broke & to pick another song and he'd get me right up? Well it would have been nice to have been told this when I turned the slip in. Kind of po'd right now, but go ahead & put up another slip, watching a few more singers get up, I go back and ask him I thought you were going to get me right up, his reply, oh I had to get a few of the regulars up first.
We packed up & left.

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Sounds to me like somebody just starting out. What are they being paid. Maybe they are being paid next to nothing. There are many bars out here that only care about how much you charge. With that thinking, unless you are a complete idiot, you will understand you are not getting top noch Karaoke. They don't care. They only care about money. If they are paying her $150 an night, then that is a different story. From what you said, it sounded like they had a good crowd. Many that are not professional KJ's, don't hold KJ's to the same standard as those of us who are professionals. New KJ's have to get their experience somewhere.

I have a friend that I am grooming to be my backup, as I do many private parties, and go to the river and glamis (the desert) about once a month. I am breaking him in on my lowest paying gig. He has the same amp, mixer, and players as me. He has cheaper mics and speakers. He has even more music than me. He has bought many cheap sets that I wouldn't use, but has plenty of good stuff, too. Last week he had to call me due to the music and mic continually cutting out. Since I have the same mixer, and much more experience, I was able to let him know that his talkover switch was in the wrong position. It should be off, it was on Auto. Fixed in 10 seconds. I was able to show up at the last hour of the gig. The mix for the room didn't sound good. I tried adjusting the EQ, and found no change. I then noticed the EQ button was not pressed, thus no EQ. Problem fixed. His mics kept feeding back. Both of us have a senhieser mic, but I seldom use mine any more since I have 4 wireless. This mic doesn't have an off switch, and it is a very sensitive mic. He had it on the DJ or fist mic channel. With this setup you need to slide the mic all the way off when not in use, or it will pick up the room, and eventually feed back.

I fixed all his problems, but more importantly I educated him on what happened, and exactly how to fix it. These are the sorts of things you only learn from experience, and just becoming intimate with your equipment.

Instead of being mad, I would have talked to the KJ, and found out the how and why's. I would have asked her about no monitor, but more importantly I would have let her know that one is neccessary, and how she could accomplish it, by plugging into the venues tv or how to connect a 13" tv.

I would have let her know that starting on time is essential to being a professional.
I would have nicely mentioned what was wrong with her song books and how to fix or standardize them. If nobody tells her that you don't leave your system till you have the music and mic adjusted for each singer, how will she know? I would have let her know that speakers on the ground that are not subs is a no no. Maybe she couldn't afford a stand yet, or just don't know that you want the center of the speaker to be at about 6' high. Maybe she plans on buying a secong speaker when she can afford it.

Keep in mind, maybe she didn't just throw something together to make a buck. She may have done it to start getting experience. If the bar owner is good with that, then so be it.

Not ragging on you. I am as tuff as it gets on "Bad" KJ's. Read some of my past post. I have the friend that I just mentioned, and another lady who is just starting out. She doesn't have enough music, good mics, or experience. If someone hires her, power to her. She has a good heart, loves karaoke, and just wants to get started getting her experience. If it wasn't for some great experienced KJ's that helped me learn what I needed, I may have been the bad KJ.

Felix the KJ

15 years ago ..could of been my show

There are all types of KJ's as there are as many types of bars and owners.
It is a shame to witness such a show. But like already said ..maybe the owner got what he paid for or vice versa. But if the 40 other people have a good time...thats all that matters

I recently took over a gig. While I was still pitching it, the bar owner asked if I had a monitor for the lyrics. I said, "Well sure why do you ask?" He then proceeded to tell me that the previous host used the bars flat screen television and everyone singing had to stand WITH THEIR BACK TO THE CROWD!!!! I was dumbfounded!

Needless to say, they are MUCH happier now.

I use the clubs tv but it is positioned so that both the singer and the audience can see it without the singer having to sing with their back to the audience. But then again I got singers who will move around the bar to sing to specific people.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

I always use one or more of the venues wall mount flat screens for the audience. You still need a monitor facing the crowd, so the singers don't have to face a wall to sing.

Felix the KJ

I have my own monitor, and usually jack into the club's tv

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.c ... D=15665332


When I think back to the equipment I started with, I feel silly. I had a 100 watt gem sound amp, a vocopro EQ/ mixer, some cheap assed speakers and a single disk player. I had for disks, SGB 1-68, 1 - 179 of Legends and about half the Sound Choice Foundation series and a couple of Bricks off of ebay, and about 30 disks I'd accumulated the previous three years I'd been singing.

Some how, I built a following off that. I know it sounded like crap, but people were having fun. This just tells me how important the host is over other considerations.

People can live with a poor sound system and a small library if you're cordial, excited about being there, run the rotation right, and try to make it fun. My mission statement has always been what I felt was the essence of good karaoke: Good music, good friends = good times. Combine that with a top notch sound system and a great library you will be successful.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

We were in Branson mo and looking fo karaoke. A certain place was mentioned so we found it. There were about 10-15 singers and a basic system which by todays standards would be less than home type. I told the gal running the machine what song I wanted.

All of a sudden a gal said OMG the Gilly show is about to start!! They all ran out... There wasnt even A HOST AND i WAS THE ONLY SINGER LEFT!!! And you think you were at a bad show....

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Seems like there as many different reasons people go to karaoke (or follow a certain host) as there are types of hosts and arrays of equipment. Those who are just jackin' around and being silly and never take themselves or their friends' abilities too seriously, couldn't care less if there were expensive mics, a subwoofer, really great speakers, effects on their vocals, or even the very best rendition of a song. They just don't care. They usually appear at the same place, along with all their friends, week after week - they'd never consider going anywhere else. They're what I call the 'homies.' In a situation like that, the hosting company can certainly get away with having less than a stellar setup and song collection because their homies don't care. They're crazy happy when their host might pick up some new songs 4-5 times a year...nothing too new, mind you...because the homies just don't care.

On the other end of the spectrum are those who take it more seriously and appreciate good equipment; they're more likely to comment on how great the sound is and what an amazing collection of music. They might eat...they don't usually sit in the same chairs or in the same area of the bar; they don't arrive when karaoke starts but stroll in hedging a bet that they'll get to sing 2-3 times over the course of the time they're there. They do pay attention to the rotation. Definitely not homies.

So a host who is catering to homies gets off a lot easier as far as their investment and skill level because nobody cares that they're subpar. You won't find the serious singers there, though, and certainly if you enjoy drunken yelling singers you'll fit in in a place like that. You'll tolerate a host who takes too long to get singers up, who gets drunk within the first hour of clocking in to host, doesn't get new music, makes lewd and crude jokes over the microphone, is late coming in and takes bribes to put singers up before their turn. Not the kind of place I would frequent in my off time, while doing 'homework.' Sadly there aren't many places I feel like going to sing at having sung on my own system. I appreciate great quality equipment, someone who knows how to mix sound, who cares about the singers, especially those with tender egos and performance anxiety, who gets there on time and makes the best use of the time.

How not to host? In my book: Arrive late, don't maintain your equipment (usually crap equipment because you didn't have a clue about buying equipment when you decided to get into the business); get drunk before you start, lose track of the rotation, don't mix the singers right because you don't know there is such a thing as mixing; be overly friendly with people in your zeal to be a rockin' KJ or just plain too cool for skool; put on too much filler music (and not even the appropriate type of music) until you have 5 singers, belittle people who aren't the best (not even BEHIND their back but right in front of them).

Sorry about the rant - it's been a L-O-N-G week. Shouldn't have waited until today to do this.

The worst one I was at had 6X9 car audio speakers as the singer's monitor. Plus the lyric monitor kept pixelating the words into an alphabet stew so bad you could not make out the words. (evidence of illegally ripped songs?)

or just a pizz poor ripping in gerneral.

I bought some dangerous discs that were that way from the pressing!! I always wondered at their legality to be honest!

They also could have been very damaged discs. I know I've seen some discs in such poor shape it's not even funny. Actually, come to think of it, it IS funny! I've even seen one disc with what looked like a "bite" taken out of ot. Think half-eaten cookie. The amazing thing is the disc still played! Pixelated for sure, but it was legible!

KarenK,

You mentioned "screwing" up the singer rotation. I am just about to get things started and plan on running a few practice gigs with friends and family before I go make a fool of myself in public to iron out some little kinks. But my question is, is there an organized way that you handle your slips and requests? Like do you write them all down or organize them in a binder or something?

Thanks
Cory

Thing to remember about rotation is this: People keep track of who sings before and after them; they also keep an eye on when people hand in their slips (I know, pretty juvenile). First come first served is a general rule here...and I slip in new singers once I get through everybody singing their first time. There are a lot of ways to do it but if you are consistent and your singers accept it, that is the right way to do it for you. You'll get a dozen responses - in fact, go back and review threads about rotation. This is fodder for the grist mill for hours.

Worst show I ever went to was hosted by a woman with very little personality and several friends who were helping her run the show. Start time was nominally 9 PM. I went three times and the real start time was closer to 10 PM. So all of the singers had to sit and wait while she set up.

There was no vocal monitor. She never adjusted the EQ and like one of the other shows mentioned here she spent most of her time at the bar doing shots with people she knew. In most cases the song was over before she ambled back to call up the next singer and find the song. Her rotation seemed to take forever. In fact there was no rotation as such. There was a 3-ring notebook at the front of the room. Singers wrote down their name and the song they wanted to sing and she called them up in the order they were written in the notebook. If you wanted to maintain your place in the rotation you had to make sure that you got your name and song in the book before someone else did.

She had no book. The first time I went I probably went through 50 songs before I was able to come up with 3 that she had.

At the time it was the only regular show I knew about and that's why I went back. After 3 shots I decided to give up.

There has been a lot written on this site about "cut-rate" KJs, unprofessional conduct and cheap equipment. What it all boils down to is bar management. If they are making money none of that is a major problem for them. From a business standpoint I can't say that I blame them too much. They are there to make money. If a substandard show sustains a crowd of spenders it makes it more difficult for those of us who take pride in our equipment, our inventory of songs and our preparation and professionalism. We all have to work a little harder to get and maintain shows. But that's part of the nature of the business we're in.

Larry

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"Life is too short for diet soda and lite beer"

I will be honest here...

It sounds a lot like where I was 2 years ago. I mean not as bad, but I was less than professional (by my own admission I was a hobbyist).

BUT I never claimed to be a KJ. I simply filled in at a mates pub when he was let down.

2 ProEl speakers, amp with reverb, speaker stands, laptop, second LCD monitor, cheap ($40) wired mics and a songbook of about 4000. It wasn't the greatest setup (LOL) but was better than a room full of people expecting karaoke and not getting it.

The thing is, even back then, I was professional in my aproach. Good rotation, attitude, etc.

Everyone starts somewhere I guess...?

What I'd suggest to start with is something very simple.

1. Use slips, even post-its.
2. Lay them out in a grid on a table.
3. Add new singers only at the end until you get to know your room a little. No insertions.
Keep old singers in their same spot on the grid. Even if they don't immediately cover that spot after singing as long as they bring a slip up later in the round (which seems to happen a lot - in my room anyway).