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Around here, that would mean ear-splitting and numbing levels. Either uncomfortable after 10 minutes or your ears would be so numb, it wouldn't matter. At those levels, it's almost impossible to talk without the aid of sign language. You must not get very many middle aged or older singers because I'm sure they wouldn't be able to stand the volume for long.




I suppose if I stopped being mobile and no longer needed to load in or load out nightly, I'd have no qualms of beefing up the single system either. However, the system you're describing (and the sound levels that you run) would be outrageous overkill for a private event like a graduation party in someone's backyard, a surprise birthday party, etc.

It would certainly be impossible to use in someone's house in the winter wouldn't it? We do an awful lot of $500 events where we are tucked into some very tight places and our systems consist of only 5 pieces: TV stand, 2 speakers, a kiosk and main case which has a footprint of 16" x 18" Still plenty of impressive sound. Lighting is only used for corporate events and weddings.

The "club work" at $150 - $175 a night isn't our main stay, although it pays the electric bill, it's not worth the hassle of moving and being concerned with tuning such a large system. But I might if I stopped being mobile or converted back to a single system.

Lonman said -



I absolutely agree with this. It's the reason I bought my 32 x 32 channel EQ in the first place.

I will adjust it for every different venue and it's different every time and it makes an enormous difference.

I also improved sound quality immensely when I switched to Bi-amping some years back and wouldn't want to go back.

Sure it's more gear to lug around (especially the amps rack) if I do a mobile job but it keeps you fit !

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In my room they sure don't. But that's not my target group. And here's the thing. There is, and always has been, so much karaoke in my area for older experienced singers, especially country singers, but until me there was none for singers under 40 who weren't into country. Especially singers under 30.

That's why I got started doing this.

And really that's all we're arguing about here. Every show has a certain personality, which is defined by the KJ, his core singing group (including himself), and his equipment.

What works for one age group or music style doesn't for another. I send the quieter experienced singers who are uncomfortable with my show (and not all of them are!) to the rooms downtown, and I've been told they do the same to singers who are uncomfortable with theirs.

We all survive. It's a segmented market, but we can each make our shows better for our specific singers because of it.

I can set my whole big rig up in 1/2 hour. It wasn't the speakers that were the problem before, as I said before they're all on casters, but the rack. Since I've streamlined my electronics, broken my rack down into two and converted to light switchmode power amps that's changed.

edit: I should add that I have several regulars who are experienced karaoke singers over 40. They like the vibe of the room too!

I never responded to this thread because honestly I didnt understand the gist'

Lets say you are broke down on the highway with a radiator boiling over and it is hot out. I stop to help and assure you I will not charge. I will take the thermostat out and refill the radiator to get you probably where you are going but at least to the next town. So I open a side tool box on my pickup and it has thousands of dollars of tools in it. You relax because you know that I know what I am doing. All I need is a ratchet, and extension and either a 1/2" or 9/16th socket and a tube of Permatex. We shoot the bull for awhile while the engine is cooling off. Then I remove the thermostat and refill the radiator and your family is relaxed and ready to go again\. When you say what do I owe you I just say stop when somebody else needs help. Was it overkill? Yes but when it was all said and done you knew and your kids knew you had just been serviced by a pro. Yes I have done this a few times and said Welcome To Colorado...

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karyoker,

Good analoby! I know I want my sound to be something to remember. And that is just what i've done lately. Besides, if you plan and organize your equipment right, it doesn't take any longer to load/unload good stuff as it does the "bare-bones" stuff.

So the question is it too much equipment? Not if the singers are happy with it, and having a memorable experience.

Scott

Our target audience is 20-40 which is primarily what we get regularly but yes we do get 'middle aged' groups & I get the same response everytime when they come in about how great the sound is. We don't get alot of Sinatra, Presley, Patsy, etc. - we get Pantera, Drowning Pool, Alice In Chains, Walk by Pantera is probably like My Way to you as far as being overplayed. Funny thing is when we do get over 40 crowds that are new to the club, they put in songs like your basic "standard" karaoke song, will listen to what is actually being sung & come up and change it out to something more upbeat. Sometimes with the response wow I never get a chance to sing this, or yeah I don't think this will go over well (in which I do try to convince them to sing what they want to sing, our crowds are generally supportive of everything & everyone even if it isn't hard core). I do have one couple that comes in every Monday - he's about 72 I believe he said & she is in her 60's. He sings NOTHING BUT 50's-70's country & she does a little more rock oriented stuff from Bob Seger to Queensryche, they love it there.
The levels are clean at that volume because there is enough power pushing it so it is not ear splitting as if you were to trying to get the same levels out of say a couple of oringinal EON's. Yes they sound good at conservative listening levels, but try pushing them to the levels i'm talking & you will get ear piercing, tinny & overall bad sound. Put the power behind the speaker & your volume levels can go higher without getting into the ear splitting, tinny tones but have nice clean sound.


I'm not talking private parties, these would be on a case by case basis. I have done private parties where i've only needed 1 speaker before because that is all that would fit. Outdoor parties I would bring at least 2 speakers & have yet to be told to turn it down. I did one show for someone that heard me running a band outside & wanted THAT system for his karaoke party. This one was overkill consisting of 2 dual 18" subs & 2 dual 15" cabs, triamped with 6000 watts - doubt if I would do it again. But I obliged - the party was actually on his 10 acre lot so we could get it pretty loud, went from 5PM to midnight before the cops came to shut it down. Sound was amazing & everyone had a kickin time.


Yeah the ENTIRE system would be impossible, I never said I would have to use every piece, I said that would be the minimum I would get for a mobile system for different sized events - mostly club work, private parties are a completely different animal.
If I did an event like that, I would have 1 rack for the mixer (on top), laptop (on a slide shelf), processor & eq. The speakers are powered & a video monitor for the singer unless I hooked into their tv which I do more than brininging in my own. So 1 rack, 2 speakers & a monitor = 5 pieces.


The club work IS my main stay because it is regular. Private parties can be at times sporadic, plus I prefer my weekends off which is why I hire a host for my current 7 nighter on the weekend. But if I get bookings for private shows, I do them.

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That's the difference between running a system with wattage and one without... give your system the power and you can create the sound without the pain! Kinda like you can stand in front of the stage at an outdoor concert pumping megawatts (so that the people at the rear of the 45,000+ crowd can hear) and you don't get your eardrums blown away... but you sure can FEEL the music!

Exactly!

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THis really depneds on the size of your venue.

Too much equipment is when the singer can no longer enter the room...

Remember it is the singer that matters not the only the equipment, so remember to leave room for at least one singer to be in the room.

The equipment I laid out for a mobile system would be able to fit into any room with no problem for singers. May not need all the speakers, but guarantee to make it work & still have room.

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Anything runs best at 1/2 to 3/4 power whether it is an automobile or a PA amp. When you are turning the level to 2 or 3 oclock then you are considering adding speakers or buying a bigger amp. Outside you can run wide open because you dont have room acoustics to deal with. I am set for most venues but anything above 1200 watts I hope they have an inhouse PA system.

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Cool... this opens up a whole new world to the serious 'shower singer'

Karaoke in the bathroom... woohoooo!

After taking Lonman's advice and purchasing a sub, I don't know of a situation where I wouldn't want it at any type of show. My venue Sunday was not a bar but a meeting place, brick walls, very high ceilings. About 35 feet wide and 75 feet long, the bass was pounding the place during the dance songs. Personal opinion but my Behringer 215A's with the sub sounded pretty choice and none of my faders were turned halfway up.
So my set up (without a rack which has been a frustrating experience) is the 2 mains, sub, speaker stands (one PA on a pole) mg124cx mixer, laptop, 2 wireless mics, 1 wired mic, monitor with stand, and soon to be Furman ml8 conditioner and my cooling fan for the laptop should be here today. I have a gator gx-22 ordered to haul all cords and accessories and a 4 legged keyboard table and uberstand (for the laptop) to work from. Someday maybe I will get a 2nd sub but after seeing mine work in a small bar and a large meeting place, I don't need it unless I start doing large venues. Might upgrade PA's in the future.

If you're among those who do NOT place equipment as the primary ingredient for conducting a top-rate show, the answer is - IT DEPENDS

I started with a Fender Passport and selectively worked gigs where that equipment worked perfectly in terms of distributing a good sound throughout the entire venue! It's only because I am now booking more jobs each week that I want to have complete flexibility as to where I can pursue work!

So.... I have purchased the following additional equipment:

2 QSR 12" 2-way powered speakers
2 Peavey 10" PR10 powered speakers
1 Carvin 18" sub.
1 mini-mixer (that will accommodate 3 mics and the computer) with limited settings
1 Mackie mixing board
2 Samson wired mics (preferred over Shure 58's that were returned)

My business partner (and we share equipment) has the following:
2 QSR 15" 2-way powered speakers
2 QSR 18" subs
1 Mackie mixing board
2 wired mics
2 expensive wireless mics ($400 each)

Together, my partner and I can handle some nice size outdoor gigs, as well!

Nonetheless, wherever I can, I still prefer to use my Fender Passport! I surely don't carry the sub if I don't see any major long-term benefit for the gig in using it!

Before you are murdered over your Passport, I will say thay I did a tour of competing venues a few weeks ago. Sound was from unbearable to ok. The unbearable one had just one speaker on a stand facing the audience and cranked to distorted painful levels. The other used the jukebox speakers. One had 10,000 songs but not recent hits. The other had a Star Disc country catalog that hadn't been updated in decades. Both KJs are working regular gigs (the one-speaker KJ has 5 nights a week) and getting paid a minimum of $100/night.

We paid attention to buying as good a sound as we could afford (Yamaha amp, mixer and speakers--had to go amp as we are using the bar's passives). We run a fair rotation and drop out once we get singers. We have had many compliments on our sound, rotation and that we update our soungs to include contemporary hits. But we don't have the crowds and the people compliment us and say they wish the other shows had our sound/catalog, or even us there and then they go where the crowds are. I paid serious attention to host style and personality when I was touring the other places and they didn't seem any more or less personable than us. One just called names out between songs.

I think Karen K's "homie" theorey has a lot to do with it. Or else we just s---.

Well, as I've been using my new system for 2 weeks now I can say I'm extremely happy with my purchase!

It took a little while fooling with the mixer to find the right levels for my various venues, but man it sounds awesome.

I've also taken to putting the Behinger B212A high on a stand directed at the singer area rather on the floor as a monitor is usually seen. I like this for two reasons: As a singer I can really hear how my voice sounds with the music, and as the KJ I get a pretty accurate sampling of how the mix sounds on the floor.

I've seen some KJs wearing headphones for this, and that's awesome, but I feel that it "cuts me off" from everyone else.

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I can only assume that Leopard was referring to my Passport. Well, most newer members would be surprised to learn that I have often gotten compliments on the sound when using the Fender Passport, and as a singer I have frequented several places where Passports are/were used. And no one... but no one ever complained to me about the Fender, and that included an owner who offered me the option to use his speakers and mixer which were on hand! But, mind you, the venues at which I use the Passport are all quite small.

But more important, let me use this as an entree to jump back in and respond directly to the question posed: "How Much Equipment Is Too Much"?

Too much equipment is when you could use a Fender Passport, but choose to take more along. Too much equipment is when you could use less but are afraid NOT to take more. Too much equipment is using a sub and two mains in a venue that is too small, particularly when the customers would like to converse with their companions without struggling to hear them. Too much equipment is when the seating is about 50 and your equipment could accommodate a room 6 times that size! Too much equipment is when you can't fit into the small corner where they want you to set up (previously occupied by a table for four).

Ironically, I spoke by phone this very morning with an owner who is looking to replace his current karaoke host. And although he seemed interested in what equipment I had, he seemed to be much more interested in asking questions about how I conduct my shows. And when all was said and done, I had learned that his venue only seats 50-60 and that his current host is on the way out because of a lack of personality and the inability to connect with the audience. I was informed by the owner, who is quite familiar with karaoke, that as far as he's concerned the personality of the KJ is the number one factor in putting on an enjoyable and successful show; equipment to him doesn't matter!

The bottom line is that he's considering me for the job. And if I get it, I'll be taking the least amount of equipment necessary to fill the place with sound along with the greatest amount of enthusiasm I can muster!

WOW! That's good news Ericlater - an owner who actually GETS it! Hope you get the gig if you want it. I agree about the amt of equipment - I do what you describe - a gig in a place and my equipment is where a 4-person table usually sits. It's tight and we've had to be creative but 2 speakers on stands, 2 mic stands, my 4-foot table with computer and rack, and we're set. I wondered, when he called me to do this gig, if it would actually work and it seems to be working great.

I agree that equipment alone doesn't bring in the people but if they are given something better to compare to, they do notice.

Lots of posts for this thread, including an earlier one from me. However, the OP question was how much is too much?

I guess the actual answer is as Eric posted ( and good luck on the gig!).

Too much is more than you actually need, and that overage which cuts into the profitability of the business.

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