Karaoke Forums

It takes me at least 30 minutes to hook up my system and to finish all of the routine checks that one must do to ensure a smooth running show. Invariably, I run into some trouble with the sound because the cables inside my SKB-106DJ case become loose when I start pulling out them out. I have taken measures to reduce the clutter inside the case such as getting short power cables and XLR cables, and having the power distribution in a 1U rack space.

While surfing on the web, looking for ideas to further simplify my setup, I came across a company that sells a turnkey DJ system. It is quite expensive, but the company that makes it claims that a typical DJ can get a system up and running in 5 minutes. Although it also claims to have a system that can run karaoke and DJ music from the same setup, I can't see how such a small case can accommodate a good karaoke setup that includes an external effects board, a compressor/limiter, and a mixer with enough channels. Having said that, I think that DJRAK systems show how a compact system should be set up. Notice the LCD monitor that can be tucked neatly when the system is packed up.

Here is a link to one of their products:
http://www.djrak.com/site/Mini_System

I've built several PCs from scratch before and so I don't necessarily have to spend a lot of money to emulate what DJRAK has done. A rack-mountable PC case (2U) can be bought cheap online and motherboard/CPU are very cheap nowadays.

Does anyone have any experience with DJRAK? How does your setup compare with DJRAK?

Cheers,
JD

That product is just a Gator case, a Numark CD player, Numark mixer with only one mic pre-amp, and a PC with a boutique sound card. There is no compression or limiter, if there is reverb it's on the Numark board, and there is no power amp.

From the sounds of it, all you really need to make your system easier to setup is a short snake with labels on each cable for where you hook them up to your rig, and perhaps a patch panel in your rack so you don't have to dig for cables.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Thanks for your quick reply, Jeff. I really like your idea of having a patch panel so I don't have to dig out the cables from the DJ case.

I guess that I have sort of outgrown the SKB-106DJ that I must now look for a more efficient setup. Here is my old setup:

Inside the SKB-106DJ case:
- BBE 482i Sonic Maximizer
- TC Electronics M300 Effects
- DBX 266XL Compressor/Limiter
- Carvin CX3000 Electronic Crossover
- DBX 231 EQ
- Shure SLX Transmitter for Beta 87A
- 2 units 1U Power Conditioner (8 plugs rear, 2 plugs front)

Inside the SKB Pop Up Mixer Case (12U)
- Mackie CFX12 Mixer

Inside a Rolling Case (4U but really 3U because of the wheels)
- Carvin DCM2500 Amp (3U)

I run a pair of Yorkville NX55Ps which are powered speakers, plus a TV, a Toshiba Laptop with S-Video Out, a Maya 44 USB, and a USB HD. This means that a single power conditioner is not enough to supply power to all of my gears.

This setup was too time consuming for me because I had too many cables going from the 106DJ to the CFX12 Mixer.

In order to simplify my setup, I removed the DBX 231 EQ and one of the power conditioners. I then moved the remaining components to the 106DJ, making my new setup as follows:

Inside the SKB 106DJ case:
Top: Mackie CFX12 Mixer
Front:
- BBE 482i Sonic Maximizer
- TC Electronics M300 Effects
- DBX 266XL Compressor/Limiter
- Carvin CX3000 Electronic Crossover
- Shure SLX Transmitter for Beta 87A
- 1 unit 1U Power Conditioner (8 plugs rear, 2 plugs front)

Inside a Rolling Case (4U but really 3U because of the wheels)
- Carvin DCM2500 Amp (3U)

With this setup, all of the plugs are installed from the components to the CFX12 mixer with the exception of the speaker cables which are tucked neatly in the 106DJ. Now I still need a second power conditioner since I've only eliminated the
DBX 231 EQ. Unfortunately, I've run out of space in the 106DJ, so I have no choice but to place the second power conditioner on the table. Naturally, this makes the setup even more cluttered with all of the power cords showing.

I guess what I could do is to replace the rolling case with a bigger one, perhaps a 6U to accommodate the extra power conditioner. On top of the 106DJ, there is a 1U space available which would be the perfect place for the patch panel. I would probably want to have XLR, 1/8 and S-video inputs in the patch panel, but I don't know who can do this for me.

Thoughts anyone?

I think these people http://www.audiopatchpanel.com/ will make whatever you ask for, except they may not carry parts for s-video. Why do you want the video cable to go down into the rack?

As far as the power conditioners and such go, some people are going to disagree with me, but cheap power conditioners are nothing more than over-priced surge strips with fancy gooseneck connectors or pull-out lights in a rack-mount format. Notice most of the $100 ones don't even have lights that indicate faulty ground or hot/neutral reversed? Now, if you have a nicer one with a volt meter and such, that's different.

I suggest you just buy a good power strip from Wal-Mart or Radio Shack and either put it inside your amp case, or duct tape it onto the side. Really! I do not use "power conditioners" on my equipment. Honestly, I plan on buying some eventually, but not before I buy a lot of other stuff first. There are two reasons I care to have one; 1) my friends freak out when they see I don't have any; 2) when other people use my equipment, for some reason they can never find the power switch on my monitor EQ, even though I printed a label that says "POWER" in capital letters and stuck it right next to the power switch. Go figure!

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Thanks again, Jeff. You are right, I don't need the S-video jack in the panel since I am using a laptop.

I found a seller of 12-way XLR patch panels on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Patch-Panel-19-1U-1 ... .m63.l1177

The price seems to be reasonable compared to what the other sellers are asking for.

I guess that I could go the cheap route by not buying a new rolling case and just settle for a cheap power strip.

If you do decide to buy a new amp rack, http://www.audiopile.net/products/Cases/Case_products_page.htm is where I buy cases. They look professional and seem to be durable enough for the trailer. I have not bought a pop-up one yet so I don't know how good the pop-up hardware is. Can't be worse than the cheap crap in the $400 Gator pop-up I own.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Nice racks, Jeff. Thanks!

Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

Ok breathe.

Walmart Jeff? Is this an April Fools joke?

Furman power conditioner, period, the end. You can get a decent one, with lights starting at around $90.

I can assure you there is a tonal difference when using one. This isn't just about surge protection, but about "clean" power. There is a tremenous amount of RF noise out there, and running a 50ft power and speaker cables is sure to pick something up.... or it gets to your system through the power wire in the 50 year old bar you're playing in.

Either way, I had the misfortune one night of having the power wire from my conditioner CUT in two (had to buy a replacment cord). Anyway, since I couldn't use the conditioner I scrambled for whatever the bar had on hand... which was a cheap ol' surge protector.

Not only did I have that irritation "buzz" in my speakers, but I thought the music sounds a little on the "tinny" side.

Just get one

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

Sorry, a cheap power strip will not really affect sound. If there is a buzz, it's because of a bad ground in general, a good power conditioner sometimes has a ground loop isolator, but will not altar sound in any way otherwise. I have used 'cheap' power strips for years also some of the top of the line Furman & Monster power conditioners & have never heard a difference in audio quality.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Lonman, I will simply have to disagree with you here, as I have intentionally caused these problems just to see if there was a difference.

Especially the speaker buzz. I plugged my EONs into the nearest outlet instead of running a cable all the way back to my rack... the result was a very pronounce hum throughout the system. Run it back to the power conditioner and its quiet... no hum, not even a hiss. Plug into a power strip, it comes back. For that reason I took the time to wire tie a 50 foot extension cord to my XLR audio cable for both my EONs so I could neatly and quickly run the two cables at once all the way back to my power conditioner.

No matter where I play, I never have any kind of hum or buz in the system. A quality ground loop isolator can run up to $30 all by itself, thus I think a nice power conditioner is well worth the investment.... couple that with the convienence of having everything in the rack run to a single switch in the rack itself, I'm sure i save lots of time on set up!

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

+1.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Okey doke!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

If you are concerned about noise getting into your system via speaker cables ... well ... I don't know what to tell you. Either the speaker cable is carrying enough signal to fill the room, and thus any current induction in that cable from nearby sources like neon power supplies is so small that it will never matter, or else anyone wearing metal jewelry had better stay far away from that neon supply or they'll get electrocuted.

The only place in your system where you can really pick up an appreciable amount of noise through current induction in cable runs is on mic-level signals, because a ton of amplification happens between mic-level sources and final output at the speakers. Even on line-level signals, the difference between signal level and electrical noise is so great that listeners are more likely to notice rain falling on the roof of the building than they are neon power supply noise in your audio system.

Noise issues come from crap in the ground, which can't be fixed by you unless you are going to run a power cable outside and bury it (believe me, I'd love to do this once in a while.) Besides that, they come from crap on the hot/neutral circuits that basically can only be reduced or eliminated with transformer isolation, high-power cross-over networks (like the ones in speakers and EMI/RFI filtering power strips or "conditioners"), or by AC/DC conversion through either switching power supplies with capacitor networks on the DC side (in all your electronic devices), or a motor/generator (like in a large, line-interactive, always-on UPS.) Maybe there are other ways, but those are all the ways I am aware of.

There is already a ton of stuff in your electronics to handle transients that naturally filters out most EMI/RFI noise from the AC power. What's left? The building ground. You just can't fix that with some "power conditioner," whether it is a $300 Monster, a $100 Furman, or a $30 Radio Shack.

So really, those power conditioner guys are just selling the same thing as APC/Tripplite/Monster does for $30 in a plastic package on the retail shelf, except they have put it in a 19" rack-mount format and tricked you into buying it.

If you really want some value from your power distributor, go buy one of the APC units that has the $25,000 equipment replacement guarantee if your stuff gets damaged by a power surge. Oh, but guess what, the guarantee doesn't apply if the building ground is not working right!

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

My reason for having a good power conditioner/surge supressor is to protect my equipment. When a car hits the power pole in front of the bar, I want the sparks/smoke to fly out of my Furman...not my audio gear! Now whatever you buy, it has to be big enough to "take one for the team". A cheap power strip will just pass that surge onto your other gear.

Of course, if the surge is big enough (lightning strike, etc) nothing can save you.

http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/uc/rsk/Support/ProductManuals/6100405_PM_EN.pdf $30 RadioShack
http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=M-8x $60 Furman

Compare the specs of those two units. The clamping voltage, or let-through voltage, of the RadioShack device matches the best value available from the UL listing test, 330V. The Furman is 400V. Surge energy dissipation is almost ten times more on the RadioShack device. Noise suppression both units is useless because they are well above 20kHz and neither provide a graph. Maximum surge current before connected devices will be damaged is greater on the RadioShack unit.

What's better about the Furman? Uh, well, it mounts in a 19" rack and a convenient switch and outlet on the front.

You could do the same comparison on more expensive rack-mount PDUs, but until you get into the ones with fancy LED volt displays and indicators for ground fault, reverse polarity, and such ... there is just no electrical advantage to using them. It's all about convenience and tricking DJs / pro audio guys into buying them.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Exactly! I am quite happy with mine...being tricked into it and all.