Karaoke Forums

45 vinyls are still being produced for the audiophiles with old jukeboxes. I am one of the few left that can work on them.I get more money from them that up todate music systems.

I can do more with a 100 watt box than anybody here can do with thousands of watts.

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Disks still sell for the same (expensive ) prices of the past. (at least CDs) Laser disks are less popular because they have proven difficult to maintain players or convert to computer format.

Occasionally you can see massive discounted prices, all to often that is because the disks are pirated copies or are just stolen.

In other cases it is due to a KJ who ripped the cds to computers, and is then selling the origionals, and that is Illegal if they continue to use the songs themselves.

This hurts the legit second hand seller who is just trying to get rid of an old CDG collection from the attic, either becuse they were inherited or are no longer of interest.

The problem of illegit cds on the market for the reasons above seriously depresses the price and also brings doubt into the eyes of the purchaser if they are recieving illicit goods.

Almost anytime one is trying to buy a karaoke song these days one has to make a judgement if they are purchasing from a totally legit source, and that the songs are legal. THat is not an easy question to answer in most cases, and there is often debate on the legality of sources. The biggest red flag is if the price is very low, but even then there can be legit explanations for a low secondhand price.

Interesting I have the same players in use today that I bought over 12 years ago, working great & no problem getting the serviced/maintained when needed.
Agree with the computer conversion, I have to rip them to a mpg or avi file & then Hoster will play them - soon they will even be indexable through Hoster so I look them up just like any cdg song.


Not true, in many cases the discs are discontinued, poor sellers or overstock through the manu & they sell them off to clearance houses.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Disks are NOT a good buy for most people. How many songs does the average karaoke enthusiast get for a $20 disk that has songs on it they want to sing? 1, or 2? That's $10 a song!

I can download a song I want and write it to disk and go to any show I want. I have a very nice personal disk with 20 of my favorit songs on it that I use when I go singing (if the KJ doesn't use a computer), and since I can get 50 disks for $5 I have no issue writing just one or 2 songs on it on the spur of the moment.

I have, in the past gone to a show, my laptop in the car, and if the KJ didn't have the songs I wanted to sing (or my very attractive lady friend... ahem) , I walked out to my car, booted the laptop and wrote the disk on the spot... No spoiled karaoke evenings for me or my friends

The concerns of a KJ don't really enter into this discussion Felix, but thank you for playing. Digital media is the most flexible and consumer friendly medium ever divised by the mind of man, and you can't put the genie back in the bottle. So the choices are to get with the program or die, and the company that recongnises this and finds a way to profitabley mold its business model to pander to this desire will make bank... period, the end.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

When I refer to "massive" discounts I am referring to the situation where you sometimes see disks selling for 50 cents or less. E-bay does a reasonable job of weeding these obvious fakes out but you can find them on craigs-list or others.

Sure some of these are legit people dumping personal property or overstock but some things like sweet georgia brown selling 1000 songs for about around 40-50$ or whatever they go for now involves some piracy along the supply chain. There is not enough overstock to account for the quantity on the market.

Now at some stage some manus like SGB may have been legit, but their songs have changed hands so many times much of the market is flooded with copies for which royalties can not have been paid....

Just for the SONG royalties it comes to about $.07 a song copy not including the negotiatable sync royalties. So whenever you see songs <$0.10 each either the royalties are not being paid to the artists for that copy or somewhere allog the supply chain someone is running a big financial loss.

Sure some losses occur in any capitalistic market due to overproduction, but when a product is being sold in large quantity below the legal price to make it, something is really fishy. I am not talking about some surplus of disk #47 from some series that didint sell well, I am refering more to the "sets" that have a price below what they cost to make legitimately, and at the same are apparently avalible in very large quantity.,...

QFT!

That's all very well, but the major record labels haven't managed to figure out how to do that yet and karaoke manufacturers are microscopic by comparison, so I wouldn't get too excited about karaoke manufacturers somehow finding resources to come up with a solution that has so far eluded the major record labels for all these years..

Fascinating discussion for someone woh has been a DJ, and had a couple of clients for private parties request Karaoke and thought I'd get into this...two weeks ago. Never dreamed that the music would NOT be available digitally, and the truth has been an unwelcome surprise.

On the topic of regular DJ's, am involved with both a record pool and group of Dj's who are on XM radio, etc. and in the past 15 years the record companies have gone from providing us with thousand of vinyl a week, to thousands of CD's to all digital. I don't know a club DJ who uses anything but digital...so, as an old lady, I think the future is here. I haven't purchased a hard copy of anything in 8 years, but it looks like I will be going back to the future to do this karaoke thing.

Great discussion, though.

Yo Mama Productions
Sun valley, Id

Lon, SC & CB don't have the licensing from the artist organizations to OFFER legal downloads even if they wanted to. Now, they may attempt to do the "Overseas Runaround" to avoid any prosecution or law suits, and it may work. However, that still doesn't make the downloads legal.

Also, in regard to the two brands mentioned, we seem to have conflicting information. Yours is that they will attempt to offer, and mine is that both companies, SC in particular, have completely pulled away from any attempts in that area, and are associating with others in hopes of new secure hard media technology.

We might sit and compare, but the bottom line is that the validity of either piece of information will have to rest on the future.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Not sure what you are looking at, here is Chartbusters download site in process.
http://www.chartbusterkaraoke.com/CustomContent61.aspx

Sound Choice already offers downloads without graphics through several retailers & also some video format downloads.
http://www.soundchoicestore.com/karaoke ... pg-52.html
They already sell their music for iPoD - mostly audio, but some with video,
http://www.dopikaraoke.com/

Also Sound Choice now endorses & advertises on their main page PCDJ Kj Pro for use in shows.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

1) Absolutely correct, but only if all downloadable tunes were actually purchased.

Unfortunately, as previously stated, there is no such thing as a secure website, or a securely locked file. There ARE such things as pirates.


2) Also absolutely correct, but NEVER at the level achieved today. With discs money still had to be spent on the media, an original had to be procured for copying, and a quantity tower burner had to be purchased for wide distribution, as well as a distribution network.

Downloads? A PC does it for a file. Then that same file can be distributed endlessly over and over, with no loss or cost to the distributor. Every single person with a PC ( and in some cases, even a cell phone) can do it. Which is why......


3) .....The recording companies are losing their hat and a**. Which, BTW, is one of the reasons we see more and more activity ( though useless effort so far) by the RIAA, ASCAP, BMI, etc... Everyone is scrambling for a diminishing dollar. These companies aren't wrong, they are just stuck. They have to take the iTunes crumbs or nothing.

The proof is in the pudding. There are thousands of KJ/DJ hard drives out there filled with literally millions of unpurchased tracks- MILLIONS. This isn't GOING to happen- it HAS happened. No if, ands, or buts. Millions of dollars lost to the industry.

Only a complete idiot of a recording company CEO ( or any exec from AIG ) want this to continue, or even entertain the idea that it was a good idea.

The ONLY way the companies could even break even after theft is to start stealing the music themselves- paying no royalties (well, they kinda do this already... ), licensing fees, and pirating each others' tracks the same way so many consumers have.

The only VIABLE way for them to become earners again is to attempt to develop another hyper secure hard media, which of course, will still be hacked and pirated eventually, but hopefully at enough of a cost and effort that piracy can be, at least, kept to a minimum. One such technology being bandied about is a device or code that will erase the media if any type of attempt to copy is made.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Like I said, I don't doubt YOU, I doubt the criss crossed info the companies are putting out. To clarify, I don't put put any more stock in what I have heard, then what you have. That's why I say only the future will tell.

Again, even if it's your info that ends up correct, none of the downloads will be licensed by the artists or their orgs. It will have to be an overseas end run to avoid legal battles, because these downloads STILL won't be licensed or legal.

Which is why, with ASCAP more actively scratching for money, many venues in my area are avoiding PC shows- even PC DJs. I don't know that there actually IS a U.S. based fully licensed site- at least for karaoke. Certainly none that downloads full documentation with each track.

Nope, discs are going to be around for awhile- even if just for ripping, and not for playing.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Eventually the major karaoke labels will all be online. Maybe they won't be the same ones we are familiar with today, but if Chartbuster goes online with MP3+G and an iTunes-like price and unbundled, per-track purchases for $1 - $3, you can bet everyone else will have to in order to stay in business.

Sound Choice can spend all the time they want trying to invent a copy-protected disc, but what they will find out is that it will only be effective until a competing company manages to get the licensing deals needed to have a more convenient, more cost-effective distribution model.

Guess why people spend money with those overseas web sites or whatever? It's not necessarily cheaper, it's more convenient. I have one subscription for about $400 per year and I still buy discs sometimes and buy songs from their catalog that are not included in my subscription, or from other web sites. I get almost all the new karaoke songs I need in okay quality (not like SC/CB/SD, my 3 favs; but it's "okay quality") for not a whole lot of money. I asked them if they are legit, I mean I guess they aren't going to say "no, turn us in," but they told me they hire a studio and musicians and record their own backing tracks, and make their own CDG screens, and how could they be doing all that, have tons of customers, have a U.S. based web site and merchant account, and not be legitimate?

So how is that company in business, and not shut down by ASCAP or the RIAA or Taylor Swift's record label or whatever; but Sound Choice says they cannot go online? I do not understand.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

No, they won't. There are too many people who get their rocks of breaking security codes.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Guess you didn't read my post. Any company that offers digital downloads will: A) be illegal, due to no licensing or royalties to the artists or their orgs. and B) will lose a fortune because there are no SECURE sites- the pirates will hack and distribute

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I did read your post. How are these companies still in business and accepting peoples' money if they are illegal? I mean, I bet I could make a whole bunch of money if I went and bought all the "Girls Gone Wild" DVDs, ripped them into the computer, and sold them on the Internet for $2 each. But the dude who owns Girls Gone Wild would freak out, sue me, and I would be out of business in no time. So the RIAA has time to sue people for pirating music on the Internet but they don't have time to get illegal online karaoke stores shut down? This does not make sense!

Second, your point B is just totally wrong IMO. iTunes is getting rid of DRM, Amazon.com is completely DRM-free, masterbeat.com even sells WAV files in addition to MP3s. I don't think the record companies would agree to these distribution methods if they didn't know people would just rip CDs and post them onto limewire or whatever and steal the music. However, they clearly have the most convenient music purchasing method ever invented, and it is not over-priced.

The genie is out of the bottle, everyone has the freaking Internet. The karaoke companies need to embrace it and make it inexpensive and easy for everyone to buy karaoke songs. Sound Choice should come out with a game for PS3 like SingStar and make online downloads work with that. Hell, I would bring a PS3 to my show.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

The "marketplace" is always shifting and the wants and needs of the customer frequently can change on a whimsy. This is not the case with Karaoke digital. This has been occuring gradually over the last several years, and other countries (England), and digital media is the emerging victor everywhere but here in the US. You can talk about the RIAA all you want, but there are not enough courts or money to enforce their "rules" that only apply here, state side. Its like spitting in a ocean.

They MUST address this, and find a way to work with this deman or risk becoming inconsequential and pointless as company after company simply moves overseas and distributes the music anyway.

People can argue the "rules" or that it is "illegal" all they want, and may in fact be correct. That is a meaningless arguement, because the greed of the record companies is what has created 80% of this problem... Trying to put limits on the number of computers the music can be on, time limits on how long a track will play without "paying again", or even trying to make the software the music will play on proprietary(and then introducing inferior software to boot!) This has proven to be a colossel failure as it has spurred even more piracy(i.e. "Screw that, I don't need them... I'll just get it a different way.")

Yes, piracy is a problem... and it will always be, but pissing off your customers and trying to control the way they enjoy their music is NOT good for business.

Give people a valid reason to BUY instead of pirate, and most folks would come onboard. Yes, there will always be thieves. The problem is the PRODUCT that has been offered does't have value in the eyes of the buying public. Whose fault is that? Well, in business there is only one answer... the folks making the product!!

The reason that the record companies have managed to continue to make a ridiculous amount of money is that they have used "copyright" (and large sums of campaign contrubutions) to beat the government into submission over this issue.

Bottome line is, the market place is crumbling under the weight of trying to force feed people an inferior product. think of it... What if record compaines produced their own karaoke tracks? How hard would that be? They already control the music rights, and have the ORIGINAL recording to boot... it would be cheap and inexpensive for them to produce, and it would be a SUPERIOR product... What karaoke enthusiast wouldn't pay for that??? Better yet, none enthusiast who were fans of the particular artist would buy it too... thus expanding the market!! That's how you are sucecssful in business.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

1) Many aren't- at least in the U.S. That's what I meant by an "Overseas End Run". They move their operations offshore out of the jurisdiction of the organizations, the record companies, and the U.S. court systems, just like draft dodgers crossing over the Canadian or Mexican borders way back when. They don't get prosecuted, but what was done was still illegal, as are the downloads many get from so-called "legal" sites.

Others in the U.S.just went out of business, or changed labels and location, and do it again until they get caught.


2) It's not time, it's the ABILITY. They can go after pirates, because they are HERE. See above.


3) What distributors like Amazon, iTunes and the rest do have nothing to do with what the mfrs. WANT. it's what they accept in order to get anything at all.

You are right about the digital genie being out of the bottle though. Any music that has been uploaded will always be there for theft. This is why the record companies are working on new hard media for future music.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."