Karaoke Forums

now do you understand proper gain structure? Sheesh!!

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Most pro mixer manufacturer's advice for gain structrure setup requires 0db average signal level on the meters with PFL engaged. Then adjust channel faders to mix.
THE END.

I subsequently run my vocal channel faders at or around 0db, music channel at or just above -10dB and my master faders around -5dB (to suit my speaker processor, & amp settings). I would suggest using mp3gain to ensure the music tracks all play back at approximately the same level so that faders can be easily reset to a known position between singers etc.

My 2 cents (pence)

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Gadget's Karaoke : Boldly singing what no one has dared sing before.

Well, I guess that's what happens when you get all kinds of people trying to explain a simple thing like "gain structure". They end up making it sound like it's rocket science, which it isn't. I would love to help you but I'm not going to get into the "answer by Committee thing", it just gets to confusing for the person that asked the question. Do yourself a favor and pick up a copy of "Sound Reinforcement Handbook" by Yamaha. It's written so even the beginner can understand, and has enough information to satisfy most sound technicians up to the intermediate level. It will answer pretty much any question you might have without all the drama and conjecture. The setting up your gear in the basement is a great idea, experiment, learn your system. You will learn why the proper input level (gain) is crucial to a good mix. Good luck.
http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reinforceme ... 0881889008

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

Thats basically where I run mine, the mic compressor needs unity input. I run music about -6DB. The main fader level is determined by where the amp or powered speaker level is set at. That depends upon the venue. Outdoors I run pretty much wide open.

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London's got the right idea. Look up Gain Structure, understand it and get some techniques that work for you.

OK Obviously (or it should be obvious) I was talking about 100Hz, not 100Mhz. The amp should have the same sensitivity at all frequency (although reality is that there is some discrepency as you mentioned). What I'm talking about is where you would use a spectrum analyzer in a live sound scenario (after all Karaoke is a live sound application) which would be to EQ the room. It is not uncommon in a room to have even as high as 6db variance amongst various frequencies.




Again, not talking about broadcast, sorry don't know why I kept tossing MHz in there, should read 100Hz. And again, when you have an issue where the room shows one frequency being reproduced at higher levels than all others, you cut the frequency with the EQ, not a trim adjustment.




OK This is just plain wrong. The "attenuator" on the amplifier is not a level control it is an input sensitivity adjustment. There is a significant and very important difference. I also never said you want the signal going to the amp to be at 0db, what I said is you want your amp pushing maximum power when the output from the console is 0db. Did you even read what you quoted?



I never said you didn't know what you were talking about, I corrected some mis-statements in what you said. And you didn't offer a simple technique, you offered a complex one of using a spectrum analyzer when simply using the meters on the board (not a golden ear) will do the job. Equalization requires either spectrum analysis or a good ear or both, but not gain structure.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

I don't think gain structure is very important to the original question.

On a powered mixer like that, simply setting the FX send on the microphone channel at about 1pm, setting the FX Program to 10 (vocal echo), setting FX parameter midrange, and FX ON should yield an audible result. If it does not, then there is something wrong with the mixer. Pretty simple.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

You are absolutely right MJ, I got so caught reading all the back and forth banter that I forgot the OP was inquiring about an EMX512SC, no wonder Jamkaraoke's head is spinning. It is pretty cut and dry with that mixer head. I would think that starting somewhere around mid level with the individual channels and adjusting your your overall volume with the Master would be a good starting point to insure a good signal path for the FX.

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

I apologize that this turned into a crazy technical discussion that obviously disinterested most of the forum. I'll make this my last post on the subject. I agree that setting that mixer's effects should be pretty straightforward which is why if the OP is having problems getting significant levels out of the EFX unit I would suspect an issue with gain structure. I would agree with LondonLive, do some research on your own and you'll find the answers you need. Too much contradictory information has been given in this thread to make it useful to anyone (except maybe the insomniacs )

My apologies JamKaraoke, I hope you get it figured out.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Yorkville also offers a friendly Professional audio guide in pdf, it's FREE!!

http://www.yorkville.com/default.asp?p1=6&p2=0&p_id=17

Have fun!

Hey great link! Thanks!

You welcome, it's my little bible

folks London Live doesnt only know his stuff, he has been a wonderful help in one on one sessions helping this closet blonde understand it and get her own system working right.
He's a busy man...his band is awesome and they work pretty damned hard...but if you can wait till he has some down time, then you wont get a better teacher

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

1ST I want to thank everyone for their responses!!

I didn't get a chance to experiment in my basement, but I did read AGAIN the manual to the mixer again and paid close attention to the instructions on setting up the system. At this Saturdays show I reset all the settings on the Powered Mixer. ( Channel EQ / Master EQ / GAIN / EFX and Compressore etc etc. )

Using the unity setting on the MASTER volume and working from there I was able to get a much cleaner sound and suprisingly the EFX came thru a little clearer.
It seems the past few weeks I may have had the Master set to LOW and compensating for the power by over EQ etc etc etc. ROOKIE mistake that I should have seen myself. But thanks to YOU and actually paying attention to the manual I was able to get a better sound .....

Thanks

What stations were you CE at? I have been in the broadcast biz for 27 years...we probably have mutual friends.