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leopard lizard
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 Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:18 am |
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We have been keeping an eye on a restaurant that at first seemed interested in hiring us but then went DJ instead. They say the DJ has been slow to catch on and we were thinking that was because they didn't advertise or put up signs. Finally they put up "Club So and So Meetings Every Friday and Saturday Nights," and I thought it was stupid that they didn't put DJ on there. For all anyone knew, it may have been an AA meeting or whatever going on. Now I am beginning to see the light.
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fsapienjr
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:25 pm |
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I have talked to my venue owner, and it appears he will pay the fees. He just wants to talk to someone to verify ASCAP is real and not a Mafia. He first said he wanted to call the city he is in. I told him he may be opening a can of worms that should have stayed sealed. I told him that I am not sure, but they may end up trying to charge him some local fee for entertainment.
I am going to remove this venue from this website, so BMI and Sesacs don't come knocking next. I may ask him to remove banners from the outside of the venue, so they would have to at least go inside to see that karaoke is here. I finally have a great following here, and probably don't need these signs anymore. Most come from word of mouth now.
I would have no problem keeping track of every song played a night, and making sure everybody got paid who needed to, instead of these BS formulas they use to determine fees.
Thanks to everyone for the quick replies. I'm doing my part to be legal by owning all of my discs. Now I know the whole deal. Knowledge is power, and now I know.
Felix the KJ
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timberlea
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:06 pm |
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In Canada we're lucky. SOCAN handles everyone. One entity, one fee paid. Of course the fee paid is calculated by type of business, size etc.
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Murray C
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:19 pm |
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Yes Micky, you are write. Thanks for highliting my brain-fade! 
And no, I was not being ridiculous... I merely suggested an option and did state that it would be a painstaking one!
I guess the problem is that you live in a capitalist country where some will charge whatever they can to help them in their get-rich-quick scheme of things, while some will always try to get what they can for little or nothing.
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Lonman
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:31 pm |
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exweedfarmer @ Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:54 am wrote: Quote:
I guess I couldn't really say as the crowds that come into our club come in specifically to sing - KARAOKE!... I would suppose if a club didn't have any kind of karaoke worthiness may be able to pull that kind of an answer off, but we get a steady stream of singers that come in specifically FOR karaoke - not practice, but to entertain. Many have even stated they PRACTICED ALL DAY AT HOME to come out to sing a new song! So I guess there is a LOT you could put into the actual ENTERTAINMENT value of karaoke in certain clubs! If a song is being performed ina commercial venue - IE a BAR, it is considered entertainment - whether it be a professional singer or an amatuer karaoke singer. Sorry!!!!
My point exactly. The folks come in "for karaoke" not a specific song and all anyone can charge you for is a specific song. ASCAP is only entitled to collect the money to which the song writer is entitled. As I said before, That they sing might be entertainment, what they sing is irrelavent. If they practiced all day at home, there is no way that you or the bar owners could know that. There's no way anyone but the singer could know what song is to be sung. Therefore by my sick reasoning, if a specific song cannot be predicted before you get the request slip that night, a specific song cannot be factored into the night's profit/loss picture. If it has no quantifiable value the song writer is entitled to nothing and therefore ASCAP is entitled to nothing. They are not the government.  _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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Murray C
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:46 pm |
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Quote: Therefore by my sick reasoning, if a specific song cannot be predicted before you get the request slip that night, a specific song cannot be factored into the night's profit/loss picture. If it has no quantifiable value the song writer is entitled to nothing and therefore ASCAP is entitled to nothing.
And by the same sick reasoning you'd say that the songwriter is entitled to nothing from a customer playing his song on the jukebox... Who could know what song is going to be selected to play on any given night?
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mckyj57
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:04 pm |
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Murrlyn @ Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:19 pm wrote: Yes Micky, you are write. Thanks for highliting my brain-fade! And no, I was not being ridiculous... I merely suggested an option and did state that it would be a painstaking one! I only call it ridiculous because I doubt it ever has been done. Quote: I guess the problem is that you live in a capitalist country where some will charge whatever they can to help them in their get-rich-quick scheme of things, while some will always try to get what they can for little or nothing.
I am happy to live in such a place. But there have to be some limits. Music is now as much like a public utility as anything, and it is high time to have digital subscriptions and unified charging. What would be ideal would be material and rights fees published and available for anyone to become instantly legal.
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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.
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exweedfarmer
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:15 pm |
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Murrlyn @ Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:46 pm wrote: Quote: Therefore by my sick reasoning, if a specific song cannot be predicted before you get the request slip that night, a specific song cannot be factored into the night's profit/loss picture. If it has no quantifiable value the song writer is entitled to nothing and therefore ASCAP is entitled to nothing. And by the same sick reasoning you'd say that the songwriter is entitled to nothing from a customer playing his song on the jukebox... Who could know what song is going to be selected to play on any given night? You do put money in a jukebox and there are specific laws and ASCAP fees for jukeboxes. The jukebox is there all the time and it plays specific works by specific artists. In karaoke we're concerned with public performance and a person in all probability, can't come to hear a particular song performed by a particular person with a reasonable assurance of satisfaction.
No audience, no public performance.
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Lonman
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:14 am |
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exweedfarmer @ Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:15 pm wrote: Murrlyn @ Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:46 pm wrote: Quote: Therefore by my sick reasoning, if a specific song cannot be predicted before you get the request slip that night, a specific song cannot be factored into the night's profit/loss picture. If it has no quantifiable value the song writer is entitled to nothing and therefore ASCAP is entitled to nothing. And by the same sick reasoning you'd say that the songwriter is entitled to nothing from a customer playing his song on the jukebox... Who could know what song is going to be selected to play on any given night? You do put money in a jukebox and there are specific laws and ASCAP fees for jukeboxes. The jukebox is there all the time and it plays specific works by specific artists. In karaoke we're concerned with public performance and a person in all probability, can't come to hear a particular song performed by a particular person with a reasonable assurance of satisfaction. No audience, no public performance. So when I go hear a crappy cover band, not knowing their playlist so not going in to hear any particular song & not satisifed with the performance, the club shouldn't have to pay>? Same thing. Sorry, it's a public performance regardless. _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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Wiggly Dave
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:04 am |
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Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 8:44 am
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In the UK they just introduced a Pro Dub licence. Allows you to carry up to 20,000 tracks for £400 GBP......or £480 if its Karaoke. Bear in mind 20,000 is about right for karaoke...but if your a music DJ thats not a lot really...and so expensive too (about 700 dollars). This on top of the Performing rights fees the Venue has to pay.
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exweedfarmer
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:13 pm |
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Lonman @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:14 am wrote: exweedfarmer @ Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:15 pm wrote: Murrlyn @ Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:46 pm wrote: Quote: Therefore by my sick reasoning, if a specific song cannot be predicted before you get the request slip that night, a specific song cannot be factored into the night's profit/loss picture. If it has no quantifiable value the song writer is entitled to nothing and therefore ASCAP is entitled to nothing. And by the same sick reasoning you'd say that the songwriter is entitled to nothing from a customer playing his song on the jukebox... Who could know what song is going to be selected to play on any given night? You do put money in a jukebox and there are specific laws and ASCAP fees for jukeboxes. The jukebox is there all the time and it plays specific works by specific artists. In karaoke we're concerned with public performance and a person in all probability, can't come to hear a particular song performed by a particular person with a reasonable assurance of satisfaction. No audience, no public performance. So when I go hear a crappy cover band, not knowing their playlist so not going in to hear any particular song & not satisifed with the performance, the club shouldn't have to pay>? Same thing. Sorry, it's a public performance regardless. The crappy cover band(s) are professional performers. In karaoke, the audience is the crappy cover band. There's no one in the place but the crappy cover band and those who kinda wish that the crappy cover band would just go away. The crappy cover band is just rehersing.
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Lonman
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:29 pm |
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exweedfarmer @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:13 pm wrote: Lonman @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:14 am wrote: exweedfarmer @ Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:15 pm wrote: Murrlyn @ Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:46 pm wrote: Quote: Therefore by my sick reasoning, if a specific song cannot be predicted before you get the request slip that night, a specific song cannot be factored into the night's profit/loss picture. If it has no quantifiable value the song writer is entitled to nothing and therefore ASCAP is entitled to nothing. And by the same sick reasoning you'd say that the songwriter is entitled to nothing from a customer playing his song on the jukebox... Who could know what song is going to be selected to play on any given night? You do put money in a jukebox and there are specific laws and ASCAP fees for jukeboxes. The jukebox is there all the time and it plays specific works by specific artists. In karaoke we're concerned with public performance and a person in all probability, can't come to hear a particular song performed by a particular person with a reasonable assurance of satisfaction. No audience, no public performance. So when I go hear a crappy cover band, not knowing their playlist so not going in to hear any particular song & not satisifed with the performance, the club shouldn't have to pay>? Same thing. Sorry, it's a public performance regardless. The crappy cover band(s) are professional performers. In karaoke, the audience is the crappy cover band. There's no one in the place but the crappy cover band and those who kinda wish that the crappy cover band would just go away. The crappy cover band is just rehersing. Yeah ok. I know when I go to karaoke shows, I go to sing AND listen, so I guess that makes it public performance for those others singing. You know why - IT IS!!!! _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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timberlea
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:34 pm |
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Exweed sounds like the kind of person that would kill his parents then ask the court for lenience because he is an orphan.
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exweedfarmer
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:57 pm |
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timberlea @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:34 pm wrote: Exweed sounds like the kind of person that would kill his parents then ask the court for lenience because he is an orphan.
I'll have you know that the case is still pending and they deserved it!
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mrscott
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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:44 am |
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That cracks me up!! Thanks for the chuckle.
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