Karaoke Forums

Been in business for about 22 years (DJ for most of it, now DJ and Karaoke), and I've never once used a Powered Speaker!! I know, it's embarassing how slow I move with the times. That all changes this week as I get some powered speakers ordered......

Hopefully this don't sound like I'm an idiot: But can I use the same 1/4 inch speaker cables to hook them up? Can I just go from the 1/4 outs on my mixer or my EQ, and go straight to the 1/4 input on the speaker with regular speaker cable, or do I need a really long special 'patch' cable?

I've never used speaker cable for anything other than anything except going from my amps to my speakers, so not sure if I can use the speaker cables as a patch cable straight from my mixer to the speaker?

Any help is highly appreciated and anticipated...:):)

It is not normal to use speaker cable, it isn't really designed for that. I guess it would probably work like an instrument cable.

What model is your mixer? Do you have XLR outputs? Do you have, or have you considered putting, an equalizer between your mixer and powered speakers?

The normal way to do it is with XLR cables from the output of an equalizer. Mixer --> Equalizer --> Powered speakers.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Powered speakers aren't necessarily the new biggest thing. They are nice because the amps are matched for their drivers, you don't need a separate amp rack. So don't feel embarrased at all. Plenty of people still using & often prefer passive speakers systems. Passives have their own advantages that powered often can't achieve.


Run XLR (yes standard mic cords) from the mixer to eq - provided your mixer & eq both have XLR in's & outs), then XLR (again mic cords) from the eq to speakers. You cannot use your speaker cable anymore for the powered.


Biggest reasoning why you can't is that speaker cords are not shielded & grounded for hum/noise/interference that mic/line cables are.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I'll just jump in an echo the thoughts expressed and add a few things. First, don't use speaker cable as signal cable. As Lon mentioned, speaker cable is not shielded and therefore the chances of introducing noise are quite high. I'd recommend a balanced cable, either XLR which is the most common method for powered speakers or a balanced 1/4" cable if you can find one long enough and the 1/4" inputs on the speakers are balanced. With the potential that you have for long runs a balanced cable will ensure that you don't introduce noise. Any unbalance cable running that long is going to end up picking up noise from outside sources.

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Which chances are your cable length to the speaker will be anywhere from 25-50' typically, sometimes llonger in certain situations.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Whew, glad I asked! I think I need to order a bunch of long XLR cables with the speakers.

Yes my EQ has XLR outs, and my bigger Mackie mixer does...although I usually use my simple small Behringer mixer and all it has is 1/4 outs. But even then I most always use the EQ with it, so I'm still OK.

I'm assuming if I am at a larger Venue and need to run some Subs and more speakers, then I need some XLR splitters where the signal is coming out of the EQ, so I can get signal to the extra amps? Actually I might need XLR to 1/4 adapters also as I'm not totally sure my Crown Amps have XLR inputs.....(Looking closer, I think the 1/4 jacks on the Crown Amps may also serve as XLR inputs....)

Wow, didn't realize the 'convienence' of Powered Speakers would be so 'inconvienent'! Looks like all my 1/4 patch cables need replaced...:):)

Although one thing that does look convienent, if you have a pile of 25 foot XLR cables, and you need a 50 foot, can't you just plug 2 together for a 50 foot cable?

If you use subs, it will depend on what you use for subs. If you use active subs, they'll most likely have a built in cross over with a high-pass output for the mid-high boxes. So your XLR would go from your console (or EQ) to the subs, and then another XLR from the high pass output on the sub to the powered top cabinet.

Now if you are using passive subs you'll need a cross-over or some other form of speaker management to perform the crossover duties before the signal is sent to the amplifier or the powered top-end boxes. In this case your XLR's would go from the Console (or EQ) to the crossover/speaker management the from there you'd send the sub-low signals to the amplifier and the high pass signals to the top end boxes.

I'm sorry I don't know your technical background but if that doesn't make sense and you need more explanation, I apologize and will be happy to help further (as I'm sure most here would).

And yes, in answer to your question about the XLR's you can daisy chain them together to get longer lengths. A very nice bonus!!

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Absolutely. In fact, I have a whole hose reel of the Whirlwind good-quality mic cables I use for that. I use as many as necessary, and have them as spare mic and interconnect cables as well.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

My Subs are passive, powered by a Crown Amp.

Not sure why I would need a Crossover now, I haven't ever used one. I've always just split the signal coming out of the EQ, with the same exact signal running to each amp. Then, one amp out to the full range speakers, and one amp out to the subs. And everything always sounded just fine...I always assumed the Speakers and Subs 'know' what sound to put out as far as highs and lows.....How would now be different?

If I split the signal coming from the EQ, signal goes to the Crown amp for the Sub, and one signal goes to the Amp inside the Powered Speakers, don't it appear to be exactly the same as what I had before?

Yes it would appear exactly as it did before, however you're wasting amplifier power and certainly not treating your speakers in the fashion they're meant to be used.

Low frequencies take more power than high frequencies to reproduce. The whole point in using sub-woofers is to off-load the low end frequencies (usually below 100Hz) to a speaker specially designed to handle those frequencies and with a frequency response that is generally lower than that of the woofer on a 2-way full range cabinet. When using subs, if you're still sending the full range signal to the top cabinets you're wasting power. The amps are now trying to reproduce frequencies that the subs are already handling. All that power could be used to reproduce the higher frequencies.

Now your passive subs may or may not have a built in cross-over. I've seen some that do but in most cases they don't because the manufacturer expects that you're only going to send them sub-low signal. If you send the full range signal to those speakers, you're again wasting amplifier power to reproduce frequencies that are handled by the other speakers.

The other issue that you can see in both the subs and the top ends is a lack of clarity. You're asking both your subs and your woofers to reproduce frequencies from 45Hz - somewhere around 2KHz. Imagine a speaker trying to move at those different speeds at the same time. Even with the best damping factor, that's a tough task.

So yes, you can do it that way and it will work like before. However, I would strongly recommend that you do look at getting a cross-over in place.

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Occassionally we get a request to put another speaker in "the bar room" etc. In that case I have 1 1/4" to XLR and run from AUX or utility out from the mixer. If the 1/4" is unbalanced you run the tip to pin 2 on the XLR and run pin 3 on the XLR all the way back to ground on the mixer. I pack around a 50 foot 1/4" to XLR cable and have run 100 feet with no problems.

That is the greatest advantage to powered speakers. You can disperse the sound or put sound where you need it

_________________
Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

Sounds like I need to dig out that crossover that I bought about 15 years ago and never used......actually I think I did use it once! (You'd think after being in business half my life I would have done some of this before...:):)

I'll have to also dig the book for my Cerwin Vega Subs out, and see if they have a built in crossover. But you're probably right, I don't expect that they do.

What model subs are you using - also what model amp (may have a crossover built in as well). You don't want the sub reproducing frequencies that it is not intended to for one thing. Also when you send the same signal to the subs & tops, you are going to get some possible phase cancellation in where some frequencies will actually be diminished because the tops wll be trying to reproduce everything the sub is supposed to be taking care of. So what sounded 'fine' will sound much better when properly crossed over. Your subs will get everything say up to 120 hz like they should, the tops will get everything from 120hz on up!

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

The amps are Crown CE1000's, it talks about having a crossover in the book. But I don't think it has one, there's no outputs except the main outs.

The Subs are Cerwin Vega sub15MK11, and I remember changing the speakers in them a couple of years ago and there was a circuit board inside. I assumed it was a crossover???? Can't find the book on the subs, I'm going to look at the Cerwin Vega website and see if I can get any info.

Ok, here are my subs: http://www.acclaim-music.com/live/produ ... bestseller

It states the following in the description: 'Connecting through the SUB-15's internal 150 Hz high-pass crossover substantially improves the effective power handling of the pole-mounted mid-high cabinet while minimizing the amplifier load. The SUB-15's selectable low-pass filter helps acoustically conceal the subwoofer by removing vocals from a full-range amplifier feed; the internal high-pass and low-pass filters may be individually bypassed for biamp operation with an electronic crossover. A combination of Neutrik SpeakonTM 4-pin and 1/4" phone plug connectors provide hook-up flexibility.'


Do I understand by what I read that a Crossover in my case would be a waste? I just need to split the signal from the EQ and the Crossover in the Subs cover me?

Appreciate all the help again, haven't dealt with Crossover stuff before.......

Actually the internal built into the sub is a simple low pass filter. Using the outboard cross over & sending the proper frequencies to the tops are still going to yield a better result and sound quality as there is no signal loss in an electronic crossover like the built in passive set ups.

Mixer to eq-eq to crossover - crossover low outputs to subs amp - crossover high outputs to the powered speaker tops.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

OK, I'm getting there. Sorry for all the questions, but you guys obviously have a TON of knowledge, so I'm still picking your brains if you'll let me........

Pulled out the Crossover, it has the following: Sub output (Straight to the sub amp),
but then it has L and R outputs, 'High' and 'Low' on each.....which ones go to the full range speakers?

I'm assuming that you go out to the full range speakers from 'High' output, but don't you want a 'full range signal' out to your full range speakers? If you only have 'High' going to those speakers, will the 15 inch speaker not be putting out bass along with the Subs? Or do you not want them to?

For Karaoke I don't really even need a Sub, but I always thought that especially at a High School Dance, you want Bass thumping from everywhere...


PS...I do realize that these answers are probably in the Manual for the Crossover, but the unit has been in the bottom of my trailer for years, no telling where the Manual is at this point..:):)

The devil is in the details. I don't suppose you have a model number on the crossover, and/or a front-panel picture or manual?

The High and Low may be for bi-amping speakers. All this is going to depend on the mode of operation (2-way or 3-way) and associated crossover frequency.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

It says on it that it's a 2 Way Crossover...

Can you take a clear pic of it & post it. Both the front & back?

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!