Karaoke Forums

yes, I do realize that we are getting paid pretty well for this gig. And maybe I am being picky about the door money. I guess since things for our business are slowing down (other than this one gig), I am trying to reap as much as I can!! But no, I don't want to risk losing the job in the process. I just kinda felt like this place is making big money on us...they should share. Especially since they took away the bonus we had been receiving for YEARS, which in effect lowered our pay by $50. We always got the bonus and now it's gone and NOW they are charging cover making the extra money over and above what they have always made on the nights I work there.

Bottom line, they are paying us $50 less, they are making about $400 per night in cover (sometimes giving us $60 of that), they also raise the prices of drinks during my shift.

So, I think I will be asking for 1/3 of the door and keep our nightly fee the same. OR raise our price to $350/night. Or give us the $60 of the door AND the bonus for the till being over $1200.

I know one thing...they tell me that my night is 'carrying' the other nights. I really don't think they want to lose that. And yes, the customers are following me...that may sound egotistical but...the customers are the ones that tell me that they come to see me and what I do. I personally think I'm too old for this!!!

Yes, I will be telling my boss that they didn't pay us anything from the door last week. He's out of town...I wanna go out of town!!!

Holy Cow Lisah!!! If you are too old for this, I must be "dust" then,,,cuz I'm definitely older than you! If your avatar is telling us anything about you,,,uhh,,,can I say this???? YOU ARE A HOTTIE...ok,,,i just said it, go ahead and shoot me!

Anyway, I would love to see some of the shows hosted by people on this forum, yours included. I have always believed that going to other shows enhances our own. We learn from each other.

On the subject of your initial question tho,,,I still believe you are getting hosed.

mrscott!! I will tell my boss that I am being hosed!! and see what he says!! Can't wait!!

My avitar says how old I am... and yes, I think 52 is getting up there for playing music to a bunch of 20 somethings!! But then...they keep coming to the shows so I'll keep playing! As for weddings... it just seems weird that a 20something bride would want me as a DJ...but again...they ask and they pay...so I play!!

I'm in the same situation Lisah. A guy in his 50s hosting for a room the age of my kids.

Those are my kids in my avatar.

I've somehow developed a loyal following and I'm not sure how. I don't know why they would want to hang around with me. It's not my daughter. ... probably most people's first thought. She hardly comes to my room.

It's exhausting. I keep thinking "Maybe I should host for singers my own age instead." Then when I do I'm reminded why I don't do it that often.

You have probably already thought about this, but in my case when we added a night to an explosive Thursday in my home room it was like taking the lid off a boiling pot. Thursdays are still big but at least more manageable.

Lisah, i would side with your boss. Times are hard right now for a lot of businesses and pushing the envelope monetarily might cause a lot of problems, or at least open the door for other kjs.

I understand taking pride in ones job, and i'm sure you do work hard, but trying to renegotiate your contract has the potential to backfire, as you stated the management has "insinuated" they don't wanna share more. It sounds as if your boss doesn't wanna go there or rock the boat, so to speak. Wise decision in my opinion.

Others here might give you courage to take risks because they have no vested interest in the outcome, but can YOU afford (in many ways) to potentially lose this job? I believe you may be getting "hosed", but it was YOU, was it not, that agreed to take the pay that was offered to you in the first place.

In my experience i've seen tooooo many djs/entertainers get to the point of too much confidence, give an ultimatum (or ask for more), and lose everything. Sure you have a great history there, but it all can end with a wrong move.

The Best of Luck to you.

I'm a little lost here Lisah. What do you have to do with negotiating the price that the Karaoke gig gets paid? If I understood this correctly, you said that you work for somebody else who runs the show. You said that your Boss pays you a little more than the other people he has working for/with him, because you do more (such as purchasing new discs and updating the books that list the songs).

The fact that the Venue is charging a cover charge should have nothing to do with you. A cover Charge is usually charged by a Venue to offset what they are paying out for the night's entertainment. Some places are not willing to pay what a KJ asks for, so they offer to pay a lower amount, and to set up a Cover Charge for the KJ to get (that could possibly make up the difference, or even net him more). From what you described, your Boss is getting paid a flat rate for running a show there, and this was negotiated before any Cover Charge was implemented. He is getting his money. You did not say (or I missed it) that your Boss's fee was reduced, and he now gets compensated from the Cover Charge. What the Venue does with that Cover Charge is their choice (for example: pay for extra staff to ID people at the door, pay for a Bouncer, etc...). Raising the price of drinks is another thing that is none of your business. A lot of places do that when they are paying out money for local entertainment... that's something that the people patronizing the place have to deal with (if they know it's being done).

What is your role in all of this? Do you book shows, or just work as a KJ/Host at the show? You said that your Boss gets paid $250 for the show, and you get paid $90 from that. Are you renting the equipment from him, and running the show yourself? Who negotiated that price, you or him? From the sound of it, you are getting paid ($90) for your services by your Boss. You said that the Venue recently started to charge a Cover Charge. If your Boss negotiated that he is to get paid from the Cover Charges collected at the door, then it becomes his business to know how much is being collected. As for your statement about now making $50 less than what you used to, that has nothing to do with the Cover Charge. You said that the Venue was paying you an extra $50 when the Cash Register went over $1,200 (for liquor sales), and the Venue decided to stop that practice. Unless that is negotiated in a contract, I'm sorry to say that there isn't much you can do about that. And technically speaking, you said that you split that money with your Boss, so you really are making $25 less, not $50.

Agree with Lonnie about the split between the boss and the kj. Don't agree about the cover. Around here, unless there is some kind of entertainment, there is no cover. So simply, the cover is to help cover the cost of the entertainment. The entertainment is brought in to help boost sales. So if the house is full, there is a cover, most likely drink prices have gone up since you started, and you are making the same amount and your shows bring in the most people by far, it's a hose job. Hose 'em back! But nicely.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

Where I host they pay for bands to come in. They do charge a cover but unless the band is willing to play for the cover only, they get nothing. Most bands prefer to get a flat rate for their time and whatever the bar charges for cover is the bar's to keep. If the numbers are good the band charges more for the next gig and they usually get it.

$250 is a decent wage for the night. What you're getting paid is crap, but that's between you and the owner, not the owner and the bar. The negotiated price for the night is set. If they're skimming from the cover and you're supposed to get a cut, then you have a valid complaint. If there is not expectation/contract for some sort of split then you don't really have a leg to stand on. Your boss probably isn't going to ruin his $160/night and raise a ruckus if he has other hosts to use.

If they're cheating you then let your boss know all the ins and outs don't let it stand. If you let them get away with cheating it won't end there. It sounds like a rough spot to be in.

I should explain my position in the company I work for. The company is owned by my boss and his wife. The boss is also a DJ, piano player, and vocal/piano teacher. The three of us also are 'wedding singers' if so requested. The wife and I work together to book gigs, she does payroll, I do the scheduling of the other employees. I KJ at two bars per week and DJ for Weddings etc on weekends. I keep the karaoke up to date (both cd's and books), I keep the DJ libraries up to date and I also sign contracts and negotiate those contracts. I never make a final decision without my boss' ok. My title is Assistant Manager, DJ, KJ. The three of us work very well together to make the business a profitable and pleasant one.

I won't do anything with the gig as far as the cover charge goes. I guess it just really griped me that they took the 'bonus' out of our contract...told me that times are tough yada yada. So yes, I personally make $25 less per night than I did a few months ago. And my boss makes $25 less than a few months ago. Things is, this gig is BUSY! We are still pulling in the crowd. The bar is making BANK! Not only on higher drink prices (the prices go up at 9pm to help pay for the entertainment), but now they are making another $400 per night on a cover charge. That's fine that they make money...I strive to do a good job so that my venues make money...but to be talked into taking less money because of 'hard times'. Well, just doesn't seem quite right. So...I think after everyone has given me things to think about...I will just go with the flow...keep accepting whatever they give me from the door. Until they stop sharing the door...THEN I will raise our prices. We haven't had a raise there in 9 years....so for some it may seem like we are making great money at this gig. It's expensive to live in California...so maybe it's not as great as you might think. NO...it is a good paying gig...the best paying one we have right now even though not by a lot...but it's also the busiest bar in town on the nights we are there.

Thank you all for giving me food for thought. That's what I wanted!

Oh and yes, I am the KJ that works this gig. (I think someone asked me that before)

I must be getting old ....and cranky... I really am happy to have this job and shouldn't (@$%&#!) about it!!

Lisah, in this biz age really IS all in the mind. I'm 53. I can guarantee you that I'm the oldest person in my Wednesday night venue- and I get the "NORM!" ( but Joe) cheer when I walk in, by staff and regs alike. They know it's gonna be a good night.

Like you said, you're rockin' the joint when you work, so I'd guess that you are just as young as you need to be!

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I guess in our area, the cover can be for anything the owner/manager wants it to be for. I worked the door once or twice for a local nightclub years ago and the bands they let play were of the garage band type and usually played for free or a very minimum amount of money or free beer. I asked the owner what he did with the extra money (Sometimes over a grand at the door). He said "Hookers and coke"! Real shady guy!

Lisah, you're a kick. I wonder how many of us 50-somethings are in the same boat. I'm not sure what the attraction is but I do a lot of activities and shows for the 20-somethings. They seem to gravitate toward our kind of show - lots of very current music and great sound. Gotta wonder about the psychological aspects of this - could be that we've (Bill H and I at least) have kids that age, are comfortable with them, know how to communicate well with them...don't know. I've often wondered about that. I do a lot of weddings for young'uns...In fact met with a couple yesterday who said they KNEW that I would take care of everything on the ceremony and music end because of our solid reputation for doing just that. It's great to hear someone voice it, sitting across from them...and knowing that all that time and energy spent on edification, as far as music and how to use it to create atmosphere, pays off.

Don't know what it is, either. I am 56 and the few youngun's we get don't mind me attempting modern songs. If I were their age I would have told me to go back to "the home."

Lisah, I think there is some renegotiation that needs to be done...but it's with your boss! Getting $90 for a $250 show plus all the ancillary work you do with maintaining the library, etc.? If a lot of the reason the show brings people in is because of YOU - rather than just the fact that karaoke is being offered - then YOU should be rewarded for it.

Tell your boss you need to get $125 a show. Whether it comes from the hotel cover charge or out of his pocket, that's the amount you need to take home for your hard work in building this show. However, it sounds like your other business dealings with him might preclude you playing hardball. You don't mention what you get paid to DJ, but if its similarly low maybe your boss isn't as much of a "friend" as you think.

Certainly you have to look at the overall picture and the gross income this company is funneling you on a monthly basis.

As for the cover charge, sometimes bars will charge one not to cover any expense in particular, but to keep the riff raff out. Even a token cover charge ($3-$5) will cut down on the number of water drinkers and trouble makers.

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[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

Look if business is the same and they unilaterally cut your pay you have a legitimate gripe. I'd try to correct that. That's just not good.

And if you personally own the gear (which I kind of picked up from one of your posts) and are only getting around 1/3 of the night's pay you have a most unusual arrangement with the others in your corporation. That's all I can say.

Just an update. To the questions asked...yes, I get paid considerably better for private Dj jobs, anywhere from $35 to $50 ph depending on the gig (difficult setups, more pple..ease of job for instance a wedding and reception is more difficult than say, a birthday party). And no, I don't own the equipment. I say 'my' just out of habit...when some jerk drops 'my' mic I tell them it's mine...makes 'em feel bad (most times).
And, yes, some renegotiating is in order...I am getting paid less than a few months ago because the bar took the bonus out of the contract...not because my boss took the pay. He pays me more than any of our other dj/kj's because of the extra stuff I do. It is time for a raise though I've been with this company for 10 years now... my boss taught me to sing, I am not a 'natural'. I loved it so much back then that I just created a job for myself with his company. He did all gigs himself back then. Since then, we have expanded to include 2-3 other dj's besides myself. This extra work is good for him and for me, although the more gigs we have the harder my boss works! He keeps all the equipment in good working order and does my setups and tear downs for me. I maybe 'young' enough to entertain the 20-somethings...but too old to lift those bass bins and amps!

I talked to the bar manager last thursday. She did make the comment about letting me go...and I commented back "oh, corporate would love that! Your sales would plumment." She had to agree! But, no 'cut' from the door that night either. I gotta say... I am normally a really happy easy going person...but I was ticked at the end of the night. The customers were ruder than normal and my tip jar still held the 2 dollar seed...nothing else. I told the manager why I was upset..that I'm working as hard or harder than ever...everyone else working in the bar is making more and I am making less. And, yes... one reason for the cover charge is to keep the riffraff out...but it didn't work that night! The bar manager agreed with me and said that she'd work on getting our bonus back. I told her if she did that, I would stop my *itchin'. So we shall see.

Lisah,

If you are truly the draw, and from your description you are, then you have a value to the club. Your ability to bring in patrons is making the club money. I'm pointing out that you can take your shows to other clubs and make them just as much money.

You have built up a valuable, sounds like extremely valuable patron base. They come to your shows because of the quality of your product. They have a value to you. You contol this "commodity." The club owner does not control the patrons and your boss does not control the patrons. You do!

What have you done to identify and maintain communication with your fans. You probably have already done so but use your charms to get email address, phone numbers etc. Karaoke fans are usually pretty loyal.

Do you own the equipment? Do you own the karaoke library. If so have you considered striking out on your own in a new bar. This might be a good time for you to do that. You can take you "client base" with you and make more money working for yourself.

Rick