Karaoke Forums

Scott
I run a Saturday show and it's been hit or miss lately with the size of crowds that have been staying all night long partying. Just too many things go into the mix ...I know the economy has peopel staying home more, The drinking and smoking laws also don't help much. But when I talk to people it's just not MY BAR but everwhere that the crowds are down....way down. The UPSIDE is that venues NEED to keep the shows going for when the business returns ... If they cancel a show the karaoke crowds could be lost forever to another venue. And most would agree once you find another show you like ...You don't go back. Keep that for your chat with your manager!!

Wish you Success

$30 is a lot per person to spend based on my area.

Drinks still cost 1.50 for a PBR (pabst blue ribbon) beer here and only 3.50 for a mixed drink in my bar. A $30 tab (without counting tips) per person would mean some VERY heavy drinking to the point many may not be able to stand. I think that the average per person is around $10 in the bars, including heavy drinkers, or more relevently about 3-4$ per hour per person.

Change the beer price to $5 and the mix drink price to $8 or so and the situation really can change when it comes to the crowd size needed.

On an average night it looks like half or more of the drinkers in the place are drinking PBR. None drink the 20 it would take for a $30 tab.

The table of $250 tab was drinking JagerBombs & beer (one of the more popular choices, another would be Grape Bombs & Porn Stars - all higher dollar drinks) the entire time they were there. These run about $8 or $8.50 per if i'm not mistaken. Plus one of likes to buy other people that he knows the same. They drank maybe 6 or 7 of the bombs each and the rest were bought for others with at least 2 pitchers between them. These guys are in at least 3-4 times a week & sometimes the table is just them 4 like last night or up to a full table of 12 - these nights are great rings for the bar.


Bottled beer runs around $2.50-$5 per bottle depending on label. Mixed drinks start at $3.50 or 4 per, mine (Black Velvet/Sprite) run me $4.50 each. Have seen some drinks people order that cost around $10 each. If you are only drinking soda/coffee/water, refills cost $1 each.

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I had a "friend" who used to attend karaoke with us years ago. Between he and his girlfriend, they would drop almost a hundred bucks, including tips in a night. That really isn't "that" uncommon. Not the norm either. However, this friday venue sells bottled beer for $3.50, (cheapest, and it goes up from there) his drafts in a mug if i'm not mistaken are $3.75, cheapest shot is $4.00 and the cheapest mixed drink is $4.25. Pitchers are not sold at this place and he NEVER offers ANY specials. We live in a very rural area, small towns, farming community with low pay scale. So, now you know what I have to deal with as far as pricing at the place.

Scott

Did the same census tonight & it was QUITE different. Being it was Tuesday, most defintely different results!
9:00 6 people in karaoke section
1 singer
16 total in bar

10:00 15 in karaoke section
5 singers
24 in bar

11:00 24 in karaoke section
13 singers
33 in bar

12:00 34 in karaoke section
21 singers
34 in bar

Avg'd $960 in the ringout tonight
This would be considered a dead night here.

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I usually to try to figure as an average that a karaoke show should increase the venue take by 3 times the KJ price. For example if the venue normally brings in say 400 on non karaoke night. Then you add karaoke to that night with a 150 charge for the KJ. The increase should be right at 750. So then the venue ring for the night would be 1150. I hope that makes sense, it's 6 am here right now. But that is the formula I try to shoot for on average with a show.

My point about prices is that the relative factor of each component of the cost can vary a lot from place to place. The wholesale prices the different bars are paying for their beer/booze is probably around the same for bars in my area compared to bars in the big city. Wages and rent on the other hand are much lower, liquor licencing is the same for my college town and the more expensive atlanta. Ascap/Bmi fees are the same for the whole country, ditto for electricity etc.

So for a bar in my area with 20 other bars within easy walking distance to charge more for thier drinks is not going to work for them. Most of the other costs besides entertainment are fixed.

Maybe I am biased, and a light drinker, but I do not think I have ever had a (personal) 20$ bar tab in this town, and rarely above 10$. That said some friends may reach the 30 or even 50$ spending sometimes, but they are clearly not in any acceptable state after that much drinking.

One club I do work at gives me 7% of the take for a show. Even on busy nights with a 6 hour show I have yet to see it go over 2500 for the total take, and that was for 6 hours of karaoke and a line that reached 45 singers long at one point and a peak crowd of about 170 in the bar (average about 90 for the whole period).

So, if water drinkers add to the show why not advertise a show just for water drinkers? Then the freeloaders can all congregate together and take advantage of one another instead of taking advantage of expenditures of the paying customers week in and week out. Wouldn't that be nice?

And what about the fact that I mostly attend and host karaoke in places that have full menus so there is absolutely no excuse for not purchasing anything?

And since a full menu could easily result in a person paying $15 to eat and have a beverage, how would one answer your general question when you may consider that a karaoke venue is a place where people come solely to drink and some of those places only offer beer, and having non-drinkers among the singers is acceptable?

Well, read on!
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Now, as to how one measures the benefit of entertainment... it's quite simple if you are an accountant and familiar, in particular, with cost accounting methodologies.

As an accountant you will consider
1) Fixed vs Variable vs mixed expenses
2) Discretionary and non-discretionary expenses
3) Direct and indirect expenses
4) Marginal Revenues vs Marginal Expenses

Once you have that all sorted out, it is a simple matter to determine if the entertainment is profitable. One previous poster did provide a rule of thumb % for entertainment costs that has some validity but doesn't capture the whole decision making process as referred to above!

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Oh, and when someone puts on a karaoke show for non-spenders and has found a venue who will promote such a show.... i will fly anywhere in the country to attend the opening show ---- and spend nothing once I arrive!

What is meant by "water drinkers adding to the show" is, if they attend and participate, they make the show have the appearance of "busy and fun", which attracts more customers. I will agree that they do not add to the profitability of a venue, as such, but do (for the most part) attract more customers which hopefully will spend money. A venue that does not offer other items to consume other than alcohol, is not, IMO, trying hard enough to attract all to attend his/her establishment.

Some places that I host at DO NOT have full menus, and i'm sorry, but microwave food is not appealing. So, what is a person to do? just leave money on the table for no reason at all? Or not participate in karaoke at all, just because a venue can't or won't offer other options? I welcome all to my shows, drinkers and non-drinkers alike. I will never treat either of them differently.

Again, its the bottom line on the z-tape that pays the bills, but its how the venue offer any item(s) to consume that gets them there. When a venue fails to attract enough paying customers, then it becomes an issue.

So, what's wrong with everyone freeloading when they go out for karaoke.... the economy really sucks and many people could use the money for other things?

I've lost 50% or more on my investment portfolio AND I have just retired.
I've lost over 40% of the value of my real estate holdings.
I am a diabetic and shouldn't really drink nor eat out if I really want to keep the tightest possible control of my glucose levels

I love to sing as much as anyone and I add entertainment value wherever I go to sing. And isn't it a love of singing that attracts people to karaoke? Isn't it a love of singing (karaoke) that induces people to go somewhere for karaoke and intentionally avoid spending money while they wouldn't think of ways to "sneak" into the movies?

So, I can see clearly now that there's really no reason why I should spend money any longer at karaoke shows! I surely have much more important needs to save it for. And, apparently, most members of the forum would agree that I shouldn't have to stay home under any circumstances, even if I never buy a meal or an alcoholic beverage when I get to the karaoke venue!

So, why don't we all just hold off spending money on Karaoke until there is some resurgence in the economy? If one, or two or five singers can get away with it, why not you, too?

A friend is about to lose a karaoke job of many years because the take is dropping way off... this is just the "perfect" time economically for more people to realize that they can freeload and still sing karaoke (tongue in cheek)!

Wouldn't it be nicer if people scrimped and saved and put together enough to get out to do karaoke once in awhile and spend a little money when they do, rather than show up regularly with their pockets turned inside out?

Ericlater said -



I'll tell you why !

Because the VAST majority of us actually WANT to have a drink when we go out.

Because the VAST majority of us actually WANT to have a good time with our friends and a little alcohol helps that happen.

Because the VAST majority of us, even if we're broke or if we're driving will at least have ONE drink.

Because the VAST majority of us don't want to go out JUST to sing because we think it will enrich the lives of the rest of the audience.

If your part of the world is full of people who are intent on "sneaking" in to places so they can sing without paying anything then you have my heartfelt sympathy

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Eric,

While I agree with the principle of your post, that it is better to spend a little as a participant for the good of the "economy", sometimes a customer just doesn't have the desire to spend each and every time they are there. I myself do not drink alcohol, (ever), I don't even drink soda pop (i like my kidneys to function right). However, I do spend a little money on food or snacks whenever possible, but some of the clubs do not offer decent food, or none at all. So what am I to do? Not sing? because they can't provide what I want? I say,"no" to that.

Now as a host, I would like everyone to spend even a little, that's how I get paid and the bar makes money. But just because a person is "thrifty" does not mean they can't add to the experience of a good karaoke show. Not to mention the non-drinker who either brings in other people or is a designated driver. You can argue all you want that non-drinkers don't add to a show, but not everyone in the world drinks alcohol, and to tell someone to leave just because they don't purchase alchohol, is downright rude and wrong. Period. And it will hurt the bottom line of profitibility in the end. Everyone should be allowed to participate if they want, regardless of ability or willingness to pay. Karaoke is for everyone, not just drinkers.
And that is what you are implying.

My question at the beginning of the thread, how many people are acceptable, is a generalization and average of customers that make a show possible. The profitibility is another question totally. But it has to be considered as well. The reason I asked this question in the first place is because, I have one show that is dying, not because of water drinkers, its because the bar has chased people away because of one reason or another. And the owner doesn't see the problem. He is blind to the facts at hand that he has created. I did not want to open up a discussion on water drinkers, but just get a feel for what others are getting as acceptable crowds. But as usual, Eric, you feel the need to twist the question around so you can rant about this and that. Please stick to the topic at hand, thanks.

Don't feed the obsession.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

mckyj57-

point well taken, thanks

I have no idea what the bar takes in in a night. When I am there 90% of the crowd if not more are there for karaoke. The nights I'm not there maybe 5 people will be sitting at the bar. All I know is even on a slow night - approximately 12 singers - there is no complaint by the owner. I'm sure he makes it up on our busiest night, Friday. I am paid from the bartenders till at the end of the night and there always seems to be enough money to do it, even on a slow night. I work with one bartender on Wed and Sat, and 2 on Friday.

If the bar wasn't making enough money to support the entertainment the entertainment would be fired. So as long as I have a job I figure the crowd is sufficient. It's an easy answer in my mind. Sure everyone has a slow night here and there, but as long as the bar is making money at the end of the month who cares how big the crowd is.

At this point I actually relish a slow night once in a while. He makes enough money off me on any given Friday to make him happy.

I have a group that comes in on Friday that call themselves the Friday night shot club. One round of shots for the group is close to a hundred dollars. They probably do 4 or 5 rounds a night.

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Acceptable to us as far as fun show is 15 minimum (capacity is 50) but 30 are needed for us to move up in pay. Overhead is less at our venue as the building and land were paid off long ago but there is still the cost of the barmaid, utilities, beer, etc.

We aren't raking it in but we were told if we weren't there he would just close up--use to get in 2 people and close at 8:00. So I guess for the moment our small crowd is acceptable enough to keep the place open and the bar maid employed. Good thing I have a day job so I can subsidize everyone. Yikes......

Last Tuesday I had 9 singers in the rotation, a small number as the average is 20, and the bar still put away a better than average sales number. I am pretty certain a few singers saw the parking lot and turned away <shrug>.

Just to give you an example of what is going on at my shows. Last night I had more singers in rotation (30) on a tuesday night (which is supposed to be the slowest night of the week), that there were total customers (22) at my friday show last week (which is supposed to be my busiest night).

I did get a chance to speak to the owner last friday, and you know what? He DOESN"T see a problem with it being slow. He told me that it had only been slow for a couple of weeks! DOH! I don't know what planet he lives on, but i'm sure the drugs are pretty good there! We used to draw around a hundred to my shows there, now we get 20? The one thing he mentioned that I DO agree with is, the customers just need to know that i'm gonna be there. But what customers? Of those 20 customers, 9 were water drinkers, (they were the drivers, though). The total at the end of the night i'm sure was abyssmal, but as long as the owner is still happy, i'll just keep going. When in my opinion that my reputation starts to take a hit, then it'll be time to go. Thanks ya'll!!!