Karaoke Forums

I run a legal/legit karaoke biz and just lost a job to a company with an illegal downloaded hard drive...no disks, just a laptop and hard drive. I tried to explain to the bar owner that they could get in trouble for this. It really pisses me off, and my husband is hot under the collar about this and wants to rat them out to somebody, ANYBODY. We pay a buttlaod of money to be legit and have disks on hand, and they paid probably 300 bucks for an illegal harddrive. I live in a town of only 50,000 and really dont want to be "that jerk" who turned in so and so, either. But this is infuriating. What would YOU do?

Sincerley,

Jamie in Wyoming

Not much you can do. You can try reporting to ASCAP maybe, RIAA, but seriously doubt anything will come of it.

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or you can report them directly to the song manufacters. SC has taken a pretty hard stance, and while they CURRENTLY support someone that has their library on computer but you have the discs to prove it (something I support by the way), they are strong anti-piracy folks. They're the ones that have stood behind KAPA...

So again, when I go to my gig, I have a computer and no discs WITH ME, but I do own them. And you won't see 100K of songs... you'll see the 15K I own!

If you're really, really ticked. You might file a small claims suite for unfair business practices. They are using stolen equipment to gain an unfair advantage in the market place and that may be actionable where you live. Even if you gain nothing in the suite you can get a transcript and take that to a federal prosecutor with the part about the guy admitting that he has thousands upon thousands of stolen songs highlighted in yellow. Yellow is a very nice color. Just something to look into if you're really, really ticked.

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Okay, who took my pants?

Contact the FBI.

They handle cases of stolen copyrights and mass infringements.

They have been prosecuting the distributors of bogus illegal hardrive systems.

Maybe they'd be interested in pursuing a few or more of the PURCHASERS AND USERS of the illegal hardrives themselves.

Fines per instance(song) can be high. And arrest, seizure of evidence and jail terms are not out of the question.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

You can report them to CB without giving your name. I understand that they are beginning to go after those kinda crooks. I am having to put up with the same thing in my area.

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Ask yourself honestly....Did you really lose a gig because someone had an illegal hardrive ??? Have you thought about other reasons you lost the job ?????
In my experiance the NUMBER of songs a KJ has is never the reason you get a job or lose a job. Sounds good to be able to say you have 100,000 songs but for an existing KJ to lose their job ..must be more to the story? And I'm not suggesting its YOUR fault ..there are many other factors and people involved with a SHOW

This illegal KJ probably went in to the bar and undercut the price, and it had nothing to do with what the OP did or didn't do. I hate to tell you guys, but the bar owner is NOT your friend. He's looking for the cheapest way to go. He doesn't know the difference between legal set ups and hard drives with 100K song libraries.

Jamkaraoke and LordAirGtr are both right, but the bottom line is this. I could afford to charge less for a gig if I used cheaper equipment and didn't have to spend $100 a month to keep my library up to date, and add a few songs to fill in the few gaps I have. If I bought a $300 hard drive, I wouldn't have to charge as much. Less overhead. Turn these idiots in. They are popping up everywhere, and Real KJ's are the ones paying the price.

Felix the KJ

Hmmm... that's simply not true. I have EXCELLENT relations with 4 out of my 5 gigs, and I have no fear that I will be "undercut" by another KJ.

Why? Becuase the owners are on sight and watch or actually participate in my show. The customers go to the owners and thank them for hiring me, and compliment me on being a top notch KJ. Successful karaoke in any bar requires a partnership between the owners and the host... the bar bares responsibilty for advertising their venue...

After my St Patty's Day gig, a major event for the bar, the owner came to me and said, "... everyone that's come to us about you had said you are the best DJ we've ever hired..."

I know some bar owners simply are not that involved with their business, but these type bars aren't paying top dollar because they aren't making top dollar. Well run bars have passion in ownership, and passionate owners don't just let anyone work for them. They aren't going to let someone tried and true that's making money for them go to bring in some unknown.

Is this bar on the decline over all? Maybe this KJ did you a favor by pulling you out of a loosing proposition and forcing you to move onto a better thing.

My advice to the OP is to review what went wrong here, swallow your pride and take an honest look at the situation to see what might be done differently at the next gig instead of wasting valuable time and energy on a lost cause. That's just poor business sense.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

I've been putting up with crooks for over 10 years, they've been reported & nothing has come from it. They are still operating happily!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Back to the OP's original post.



You have to be careful here. How do you know this KJ is using an illegal hardrive?
Just because they show up with a laptop and external hard drive and do not have disks with them does not mean they are illegal. There are many a KJ that have converted their disc collection to digital and the main reason for doing so is so they don't have to haul all their discs to every show.

Are there any other red flags about this KJ such as an unbelievably large karaoke library?
Disorganised library? Multiple naming conventions within the library?

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Music speaks to the heart in ways words cannot express.

If they are actually illegal you can report them to the Karaoke companies and the FBI, because this is a Federal offense. I do believe you lost the GIG because of them uncutting you, which is ONLY bogus because they have an illegal setup. If you actually consider yourself a good person you should do the right thing and report them. As far as the owners being your friend, they are absolutely NOT your friend, and if they are that is unprofessional in my opinion, and only leads to bad situations. I being in a good business relationship, but friends, NO!

I do know of KJ's that have gotten in BIG legal trouble over this, and it is almost always over losing a GIG! In my opinion KJ's with illegal setups should NEVER undercut anyone, they should find original GIGs of their own. If they have an unfair advantage in taking someone's GIG they are asking for trouble. Of course, you need to make sure they are illegal, because we all know we can get excited at times and make assumptions that may or may not be true.

Pirates (owners of illegal harddrives) will always take the chance and bet on not getting nailed for their illegalities and to this point in time they've been winning that bet. I don't see much happening to change that unfortunately. Can only hope that somehow karma intercedes...yah, right...

Many KJ's who lose a gig are under the impression that when another KJ charges less #1 they must be ILLEGAL or #2 A BAD KJ WHO USES INFERIOR EQUIPMENT

Both of these beliefs will lead you down a dark path !!!

NO ONE loses a gig just on MONEY ALONE !!!! ...unless its HALF PRICE

If you have a good relationship with your owner and are doing a good job and well liked by the customers ---There is no owner who would replace you without TALKING TO YOU FIRST. Business is Business and you can't blame an owner for cutting costs. But you have to keep in touch and talk to your managers --- ALthough you are just hired help - you are in a partnership with the owners (at least on that night you work).

I'm still at my main venue after at least 4 or 5 attempts to slide in under my price point, some by 1/2. Good owner and customer relationships keeps me in the black here. Bonus is some other KJs and I have banded together to do pickup gigs for each other and are setting a specific price for us to honor with no scalping each other.

Losing a gig is rarely about how much you charge.

Badda - Frickin' - Bing. Quit the belly achin' over illegal this, and under cut that. Learn yer lesson and MOVE ON.

Quite frankly, I'm getting tired of these "illegal KJ" threads. Run your business, and do your job and the worst that will come of something like this is a bump in the road. I got one of the smallest librarys around (16k vs 100k+ blah, blah, blah!) , and am surrounded by illegal KJs, but I'm doing fine. Why? Because they are lousy hosts, and I'm not. I'm technically superior, and have better business savay and marketing skills then all of them combined. This isn't bragging, its just the way it is.

There are those around who've been around longer than me and are much better than me... some are doing well or better, some are not.

I do know this: going to the FBI and bitching about what you lost doesn't make you money or friends, so it sounds like a losing proposition to me.

RUN YOUR BUSINESS!

End rant.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

Jamie large libraries are beginning to be less of a selling point. It is the undercutters that take gigs then after awhile bar owners realize they get what they pay for.

Where are you in Wyoming? I am in Greeley 30 miles south of Cheyenne..

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Not much you can do. You can try reporting to ASCAP maybe, RIAA, but seriously doubt anything will come of it.


Lonnie, that is what I asumed, actually, just ticks me off.

Thanks, Jamie

Ask yourself honestly....Did you really lose a gig because someone had an illegal hardrive ??? Have you thought about other reasons you lost the job ?????
In my experiance the NUMBER of songs a KJ has is never the reason you get a job or lose a job. Sounds good to be able to say you have 100,000 songs but for an existing KJ to lose their job ..must be more to the story? And I'm not suggesting its YOUR fault ..there are many other factors and people involved with a SHOW

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Now whats funny, is that they don't have near as many songs as I do and mine are legit, . The restaurant/bar owner is a jerk, I honestly didn't MIND loosing the gig, I hated that place, but I freaking PACKED IT every Friday night. The competitor came in and offered them a great deal on Teus nite Karaoke and Thursd nite Trivia. I could give a crapola about that job, it is already replaced, I just hate to see people like us paying for the best equipment, best song selections and having nbimrods like this twit step in and make the same $$ I do. Best of luck to them and their new KJ, that company was already fired from another place in town b/c people complained about the song selection and crappy set up.

Jamie