Karaoke Forums

You have to be careful here. How do you know this KJ is using an illegal hardrive?
Just because they show up with a laptop and external hard drive and do not have disks with them does not mean they are illegal. There are many a KJ that have converted their disc collection to digital and the main reason for doing so is so they don't have to haul all their discs to every show.

Are there any other red flags about this KJ such as an unbelievably large karaoke library?
Disorganised library? Multiple naming conventions within the library?

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She TOLD US she just downloads them for free off the internet!

Many KJ's who lose a gig are under the impression that when another KJ charges less #1 they must be ILLEGAL or #2 A BAD KJ WHO USES INFERIOR EQUIPMENT

Both of these beliefs will lead you down a dark path !!!

NO ONE loses a gig just on MONEY ALONE !!!! ...unless its HALF PRICE

If you have a good relationship with your owner and are doing a good job and well liked by the customers ---There is no owner who would replace you without TALKING TO YOU FIRST. Business is Business and you can't blame an owner for cutting costs. But you have to keep in touch and talk to your managers --- ALthough you are just hired help - you are in a partnership with the owners (at least on that night you work).

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She TOLD ME she was illegal, and I have seen her set up...one crappy corded mic, no floor monitor, gargage 300.00 speakers.

And yes, I DID loose the gig on money alone. I could give a crap less about the gig, replaced with a place that doesn't have a PITA running/managing it. (pain in the @ss for those of you wondering) Yes, the onwer replaced us without talking to us first, as a matter of fact. I hated this guy, I have a PROBLEM with the illegal karaoke, not the loss of the gig.

Jamie

Quite frankly, I'm getting tired of these "illegal KJ" threads. Run your business, and do your job and the worst that will come of something like this is a bump in the road. I got one of the smallest librarys around (16k vs 100k+ blah, blah, blah!) , and am surrounded by illegal KJs, but I'm doing fine. Why? Because they are lousy hosts, and I'm not. I'm technically superior, and have better business savay and marketing skills then all of them combined. This isn't bragging, its just the way it is.

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While I do not appreciate your tone, I do agree with you. I was PO'd about the gal bragging that she doesn't pay to play, so to speak..my hubby wanted to do something about it. As I have said in other posts, I could give a sh!t about this venue and had 3 bars duking it out to hire me on a Fri night as they know what a crowd I bring. I have a good selection, a good set up, and a GREAT personality..if I do say so mself, . It is this bars loss, not mine. I am now making the same amount of $$ closer to home and in a much friendlier environment.

Thank you for your input.

Jamie

Jamie

Just make sure to let the people that were freaking packing the place know where you NOW are & chances are they will no longer pack that place! Then the bar owner will soon realize, you get what you pay for! Always collect contact info from your singers! Beit email, MySpace/Facebook/Tweeter, etc, cell phone numbers to multi text or whatever! Keep people informed!

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Jamie where r u in Wyo?

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Jamie, if you want to refer to another comment, there's a little button called the QUOTE... use that when you're referring to previously said comments, that way we know who the heck you're talking to, rather than scrolling ...

Illegal hard drive buyers pizz me off too!

But see? You are good, and picked up another gig easily!

Which was my point. You can let this get you down, or look at it for the positive thing it was. If you let others stupidity irk you, this business will quickly eat you alive, and I've seen way too much of this negativity on the board lately. Sorry that you caught the brunt of my ire.

I just hope you guys had the emails of your best singers so you can let them know where you are now. If not, another good thing to do is to go to a local karaoke bar on your off night. In all likelyhood you'll see some of your regulars there, and can let them know where you are now.

Good luck!

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

I can relate to Jamie's anger because we just lost a potential new venue to a pirate. We were actually "auditioned" by the bar owners and a group of their clientele who came to our show a few weeks ago. Then we learned that not only did we lose to this person, she wasn't even in the business until she heard about this opening and got a rig together in a week. So we felt like the worst KJs in the world to lose to someone who didn't even have any work to show. We were even discussing giving notice at our current venue because we were too demoralized with the struggle to build up business .

So last night we get to our regular venue and the owner gave us an extra $100 in appreciation of how things have built up in the past few weeks. Plus he was taking an interest again and serving free hot dogs. Then we heard on the coconut telegraph that the reason the other person got the other job was because she was a neighbor to the bar owners and convinced them to give her a try. They were already getting complaints from customers and we got 3 of them at our show last night.


So yes, it's a bump in the road but it sure did throw us for a loop for a moment. It's one thing to hold on to a gig against pirates but it's been difficult to get our foot in the door while competing agains them.

In the UK, if we lose a gig its always because a) The Dj is Crap (In the Bar owners/managers opinion) .... b) Karaoke isnt bringing in the customers(doesnt work in all bars)...or c) The manager/tenant of the pub/bar has left or been replaced .(A lot of tenants are self employed and are struggling to make the bar work. Also,if its a manager the owners might replace him and the new manager might not want Karaoke.) Plus a lot of Pubs are currently closing down in these harsh times.
Its never because the DJ has been undercut,by someone with or without an illegal hard drive.....and I reckon 80% of the hard drives in the UK are illegal in some way...

I can relate to what you're saying, and it sucks to be in a situation like that, but over the long haul those folks go away. Have confidence in what you're doing and don't try and second guess yourself. The bar patrons DO know the difference, and in the end you will benefit. Call it karma, or whatever, but it always pays $$$ to take the high road... I'm convinced of that.

This business has a lot of give to it, but there can be big take... like when you land that big $200 plus gig a night at a kickin' bar. That's not going to happen by prospecting, those gigs come from RECOMENDATION, and the only way that's going to happen is if you remain professional.

From what I've read, calling the authorities doesn't get you anywhere, but it does waste your time for little or no satisfaction. I am not the karaoke police, nor do I have a desire to be. I run an entertainment business, and its my job to make sure others are having I good time... anything more that that is a distraction. Keep a positive attitude and remained focused and you can overcome fools like that with ease. That's the satisfaction that I take away from those kinds of things... and I try to remain grounded, and give back where I can... supporting other KJs who are providing excellence in the business.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

You're underscoring the ins and outs of the business. In your situation they went with a known asset with an unknown track record. Had you been the known asset you'd have the gig. Shake hands, press the flesh, go to other Karaoke shows and get to be known by the singers. The singers are the ones who advise the owners that they should try so and so for their gig. You can't be everywhere but the singers who know you can.

Build up a relationship with the other KJs in the area, stop competing and start cooperating. Then you know that you're not going to be undercut and you're going to have a rep with people who will vouch for you. Bar owners talk too and if owner A employs KJ A he'll ask who KJ A thinks should help out Owner B and pass that along.

Treat it like the sales business it is and you'll prosper.

It is good advice to go to other shows. We have been to the other venue as singers when they had a different host and we were well received. Their clientele also liked us when they came to check out our show. We knew what songs they liked to sing and had those songs in our books for their "visit."

We know the bar owners are talking. They were visiting just yesterday. Karaoke hosts talk, too ,and there may be other reasons we don't want that job.

We are on good terms with 2 other sets of hosts and one has mentioned us to people. But we also have two retired hosts who make the rounds trying to sell access to their hard drives or convince people to join clubs where they can download any karaoke song they want for free. One of them sings sometimes at our show and we stay cordial. The other goes next door. The person who got the job over us sings next door and subs for them sometimes. She has come into our venue and told people that the real party is next door or beer is half price, etc. We still remain cordial. But we aren't going to be forming any alliances with them.

This goes back to something I had mentioned a while back. I went to a restaurant where a kj had a gig. He had something go wrong with his hard drive. He made 1 phone call and within 15 minites, his croanie brought him another one. Now, that's illegal in my book to have multiple loaded hard drives available like that.

It's only illegal if both were being used at the same time. I have a backup hard drive in case something happens to my main one. Saves having to rerip my discs. Been there done that. As long as he has the discs to back him up or receipts for the legal download sites then he is not the pirate he is being made out to be.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

er.... i've lost a gig due to a illegal hardrive user.

A friend of mine does a fortnightly show with his 3000 songs, the owner has explicity stated that he uses another guy on the other weeks becuase he has 40,000 songs and only charges £50. The clientelle dislike Mr 40,000 songs (because apparrently he's rude), but the owner refuses to get rid of him. The owner has also encouraged my friend, to buy an illegal harddrive because the owner although knowing the risk, doesn't believe he will get caught.

and i would say 90% of the hardrive users in my area are illegal (they all have 40,000+ songs)... which has driven down our prices and satuated the area.

You know, the only ones who CARE about illegal drives are the ones who do it honestly. Owners are willing to risk it, apparently, because I have advised multiple owners/establishments about how important it is to have a legal purveyor of karaoke. Perhaps that is a reflection of how everything is nowadays - if nobody makes a fuss, everything goes along status quo. You'd think, however, that with the recording companies suffering such losses due to format shifting that they'd spend the money to prosecute the thieves among us. They apparently don't care either and perhaps illegality is just something we'll all have to somehow live with.

I agree with Danny. I have not one, but TWO backup drives. One I carry with me to every gig, and the other stays at home and is never used except to update it.
I had my hard drive crash once. I will NEVER go through that again! Massive amounts of work and time to re-rip everything. Why on earth wouldn't I have a backup? Just so I wouldn''t APPEAR to be a pirate? Personally, I don't really care what people think. I have the discs to prove I own my stuff and if someone thinks I shouldn't have a backup because of what it looks like I would suggest that they're nuts. You backup everything else on your computer, don't you? It would be crazy NOT to have a backup.

Bar owners don't care about the legality of it. In the State of Wisconsin most bars have video slots and poker. Says right on the machine "For entertainment only" meaning no payouts as those are illegal in our state. However, if you are a regular and know the ins and outs of the bar culture, you can get a payout if you hit the jackpot. So they are not gonna care about legal or illegal.

Can't understand why the bar owner wants to keep the £50 guy....If the clientele don't like him it shouldn't matter how many songs he has. What he has to realise is ,OK...he might have 40k songs....but 200 of them will be diffrerent companies "My way"...or similar etc.....theres only so many times a song can be sang

Just goes back to bar owners not giving a crp about a quality DJ/KJ. They are a DIME A DOZEN. Job goes to the LOWEST bidder. More often than not they hold the KJ's in low regard and most likely the people singing and participating in even lower regard---only caring weather they are good for spending MONEY. They are not interested in the ins and outs concerning "QUALITY KARAOKE". For them there is NO SUCH THING!! Karaoke is simply one more DEVICE for getting BUTTS INTO SEATS and DOLLARS IN THE TIL. No more and no less. And it makes little difference if its "QUALITY" or otherwise.

And as far as quality Karaoke---probly 80% of the average casual person visiting a Karaoke bar either cant tell the difference or doenst care. They are there to PARTY, GET DRUNK and Karaoke is just an added amusement.

The really good quality shows are becoming much fewer and far between. Maybe to the point of being a dying art, unfortunately.

Sorry if that sounds BLEAK. But its kinda whats actually out there these days.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT