Karaoke Forums

I know some of you out there are doing this, and I feel that now is a good time to introduce this at some of my venues.

I'm thinking that a four color spot system that moves to the music would be nice, and maybe a mirror ball would suffice.

I don't want to go overboard... at least initially. Something easy to set up and take down is a major concern.

Suggestions?

Thanks!

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

I bought a bunch of lights last year and for karaoke, I basically only use these American DJ "Color Fusion" ones. It is a very bright, 3 color, sound-activated box with adjustable flaps, and you can hook them together or to a DMX512 controller. I still don't own a light controller and I really need one, but I know nothing about how to use them. Anyway, the lights work fine by themselves.

They are on sale at MF right now, http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/American-DJ-Color-Fusion-Stage-Lighting?sku=803192 $90. I paid $300 for a pair of them and I felt like I got a good deal. At $90 I am tempted to buy more! I do not know what the bulb situation is. I have run 2 of mine at least 200 hours so far and the OEM bulbs still work. When they go out I'll let my partner deal with finding the replacements, as he knows way more about lights than me. He says we can get them at Home Depot but I dunno.

I put these on poles sometimes for weddings & private parties, but at the bar I just put them on top of my FoH cabinets and turn them on. Oh, and don't point 'em directly at the singers, they are BRIGHT. I use them for dance floor fill lighting sometimes, too; and there are a few bands that ask for them when they play at the place we're at most. I would use more lights if a band was paying me to do lights or rent them to them, but as a favor because they are too cheap or lazy to bring their own lights ... they are not bad at all.

Also I bought into that LED crap a little bit, got a couple star balls that are LED instead of regular bulbs. Man, those things are not bright enough. I want some LED RGB cans but when I buy them I am going to get them from MF so I can return them if I don't like them. I was really disappointed with these LEDs I bought locally and the store wouldn't take them back. I knew that when I got them, and then I felt stupid later. Oh well.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Oh the lighting thing, now here's one where I really have some strong feelings (so those that are easily offended may not want to read any farther). For starters, whatever you do, please have a plan and do it in an organized fashion. Make it look professional. Please do not do the "typical DJ" thing of buying a bunch of mis-matched lighting effects and just sticking them randomly on a lighting tree. It looks so cheap and amateurish.

Your first step is to decide what you are trying to light. Are you lighting the stage or are you lighting the dance floor (or both). For stage lighting you want something pretty simple, no crazy scanners or spinning gobos or anything like that. Something simple like par cans or some other type of color wash system. Buy in pairs and light from both sides of the stage if possible. Also remember that you need to have enough ceiling height to do this. Any lights shining on the stage from down stage (i.e. the front of the stage) should be at a minimum 17 degree angle to the singer's eyes to avoid blinding them.

If you're going to light the dance floor, this is where things like scanners, intelligent lights, mirror balls, etc all come into play. This is where you want things that move, switch colors, patterns, etc. Again though I would strongly recommend doing it in pairs and and if possible, lighting from both sides of the stage. Try to make your trees look symetrical, it makes them look better and the light show as well.

Personally, I have 2 trees and a truss with a combination of par cans, a mirror ball and a pair of scanners. For most club Karaoke gigs, I use only the trees and the par cans and only light the stage. I have 5 Par-38 cans on each side right now and they're run by a pair of Chauvet DMX4 dimmer packs. I've not gotten myself a DMX controller yet so currently they just run on a static pattern.

When I do private gigs, I break out the scanners, mirror ball, more cans, sound activated controllers (T4's) and the truss to light the dance floor in addition to what I described above. I hang the scanners and additional par cans on the truss symmetrically with the mirror ball as close to center as possible. The pin spots for the mirror ball hang on the cross bars of the lighting trees. The result is a good lighting show for both the dance floor and the singers and everything looks really neat and organized.

One last piece of advice that I cannot stress enough, DO NOT power your lighting off the same electrical circuit as the audio equipment. This can cause all sorts of power issues. Not only could it blow fuses/breakers, but worse yet it can rob your amps of electrical power when they need surge power the most (i.e. big base notes, etc). Also, lighting can introduce noise into the audio system when connected together. So Always Always Always keep them on different circuits.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

That's why I suggested those ADJ Color Fusion lights, they are about as bright as a standard 38 can and it's 3 colors in one fixture, and if you can set them on a speaker or something it's a lot quicker to put it up than a tree with cans. Perfect for cheap, easy stage fill without a lot of fuss. If I didn't have those I'd be using two T-bars with 3 or 4 cans on each side with a dimmer pack and controller. But for karaoke, ugh, too much work and I don't have the floor space for it!

How wide is your truss? I would love to find a truss system that can be different widths depending on what pieces you assemble, as I would go to the work of putting up a light truss on the weekend if I had one that could span the stage about 15 feet and have room to put the stands on the floor, but I would also like to be able to assemble it in a smaller 10 foot configuration. I do not know how to buy this stuff. I want a good DMX controller, too, but I don't need to have my act together as far as lights go until about next year.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

You can see all kinds of options in action over on YouTube, there are several different types of par lights to choose from. At this point I still don't see the value in LED par cans yet but they are getting there. On the other hand the LED specialty lights seem to be the way to go. Just two or three good "bang for the buck" LED specials would be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo6s-2ei ... annel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA3rewo0 ... annel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMWqNcIi ... annel_page

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

One of the more popular weekend bands around here went all LED with their lights a couple years ago, and the value is clear.

1) one RGB 64 can will do the work of several lamps with color gels
2) virtually no heat at fixture or directed at performers
3) no replacing bulbs, pays for itself after a few years
4) no out-board dimmers needed, just DMX stuff
5) power draw goes down to like 10% of regular lamps

I do not need many lights right now, so I just have a bunch of 38s a friend sold me and some wash/fill lights; but when the need does arise I will be investing in LED cans. I have some LED star balls already but I am not real happy with their brightness. I will be replacing them with better LED models before some weddings in the fall. Why are all my wedding bookings in the fall? That is damned odd!

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

http://www.djforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141903 here is a cool intro to lighting I just noticed on another forum. Might be helpful.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

These are the two advantages I find the most useful. Having the ability to change colors with the same lamp is nice. To do this with conventional lighting, you'd need $1000 robotic movers.

The power draw is actually the thing I like most, except it's way more than 10% savings on a per lamp basis. A conventional Par64 lamp would be either 600 or 1000W where as a LED Par64 draws about 30W. That means that on a 20A 120V circuit you could run 4-600W Par64's at full burn. Alternatively you could run 80 LED Par64's.

So now the disadvantages. As noted LED Par's are less bright. I've been told by our lighting director that it takes about 5 LED Par 64's to equal the light output of 1 600W Par64. But even at a 5:1 ratio, the power savings are huge, you're talking 150W vs 600W, that's a 75% savings. Tough to beat. Now of course space would be a concern, but really how many of us need a 600W Par can anyway. If you've got 4 LED Par Cans per side I think most of us would have more than enough light.

Another disadvantage of the LED's is that each can has to have it's own DMX channel. This is only a hassel while programming scenes or if you use manual control. Also note that the cheaper LED's don't have intensity controls and don't allow you to cross fade between colors. So if you go LED, buy some quality ones.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Thanks for some very useful information from you Tony. Have you had any experience with ShowMagic lighting software at all?

www.showmagic.com

Keeping to the letter of the OP, if we are talking Karaoke here I don't know how conventional Par 64 cans even got into the conversation. By the way Par 64's are either 500 or 1000 watt, not 600 watt. Par 64's would be waaaaaaay overkill. The more versatile can would be the Par 56 and they do come in 300 and 600 watt. I think the 300 watt cans are ideal for Karaoke, not to big, not to small and can be used two per channel on good quality dimmer packs like NSI's. One Dimmer, four or eight Par 56's, one or two tree's, controller optional if using programmable dimmers. Add a couple specials and your setting good. A four can 300 watt par 56 starter system can come in at under 220 dollars plus tree's verses three times that for even a cheaper LED par 64 system that still wouldn't have anywhere near the same output.

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

I haven't used that particular package but have worked with some others. Honestly I think that would be total overkill for a light show in any small club. The software is great when you have a huge light show in a big band venue where you have a lot of intelligent lights and movers that need to be controlled.

LondonLive, I wasn't suggesting the use of a conventional Par64 for Karaoke, just using that for comparisson. However, using an LED Par64, given the difference in light output, would actually make a lot of sense. And yes you are correct Par64 Lamps are 500, I was thinking of the 600W DYS bulbs we use in our 64 cans. However the point is still the same.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke