Karaoke Forums

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for a pretty decent vocal processor that will make me and my singers sound better. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm hoping 2 to 3 hundred will get me going.

Make you sound better? Well there's only so much any vocal processing would do but here are my thoughts. 2-3 hundred could get you quite a bit actually. But lets start with what you already have. I'm assuming you have a mixer, so the first thing to improving vocals is learning to EQ. If you have a 3 band EQ on each channel with the sweepable mid, change the frequency on that mid control to find the frequency area where the person's vocals are particularly harsh and then cut it about 3-4 db and it'll make a drastic improvement.

If you don't have a compressor, that's where I'd start as far as buying outboard processors. Behringer, despite the price, actually makes some really nice compressors. They've got stereo and four channel models that you can get brand new for around $150 or used a lot cheaper. Start there, read about compression, get it setup right.

If you've got compression or get a compressor for cheap, then look at a good multi-effects processor. T.C. Electronics and Lexicon are two manufacturers that make some great equipment. Now you might have to look used to get them in your price range (especially if you've gotta buy that compressor yet) but it's worth it. Just having reverb on the vocals can help the final product a lot. Think of how much better you sound in the shower than alone in your bedroom. Thats because in the shower, you hear all the reflected sound (reverb). I usually run a pretty healthy amount of reverb on Karaoke vocals (more so than with a band) and the results are really good.

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

I'm using TC Helicon VoiceTone Correct and TC Helicon Voiceworks.
They are an excellent solution if you are not already using compressors and EQ on your vocals, cause they are tailored to specifically vocals.

In a single AD/DA conversion, they will do for a single vocal channel:
Compression, EQ, warmth/thickening, dessing, and pitch correction.

The Voiceworks will also do really nice reverb and delay and lots of different harmonies and other effects.

The advantage of Voicetone correct is that it is super simple, dummy proof.
Keep everything at 12oclock and don't use adaptive stuff and it will still make vocals sound very good standing out of the mix.

The advantage/disadvantage of Voiceworks is that everything is very tweakable and nothing is automatic. Good for tweek geeks like me but not good if you want something easy to use.

Note that to take full advatnage of these, it's one vocal channel per unit. I have 2 the units for 2 singers.

Another nice thing is that they will take a mediocre mic and still make it sound very good. I'm using sm58/beta57a/e945, but I have used them with pg48's and these budget mics still sounds very very good through these processors.

Alcohol. The more you drink the better they will sound.

Michaelangelo, that is the best way

to be honest why would you want to put a pitch corrector onto someones vocals singing karaoke??
Just how many have to be told in the real world they cant sing? Its Karaoke, its supposed to be warts n all fun

_________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Because they just sound awesome, like a star, like Britney (when not lipsyncing) and Cher, who love these kinds of procs

I will say that personally I'm not a fan of pitch correction, it just doesn't sound natural. It's better in studio situations, but live even the best pitch correctors are noticeable. I was at a Trace Adkins concert two years ago where it was obvious they were using pitch correction. Me and the FOH engineer from our band just stood there laughing as you heard each swooping correction. Doesn't matter how tightly you tune them, they're still there to be heard.

In the Karaoke I can see the argument for putting them in there in terms of singers coming back to the show where they think they sound their best. However, I'm also a believer that too many Karaoke divas are told how great they are by drunken fools in a bar and then they end up trying out for American Idol or other such silly competitions. I've seen people that I felt sounded terrible get truly demolished emotionally when they go to these competitions believing they're the next Celiene Dion only to be sent packing early by the judges.

I'm a fan of natural vocals, not digitized processed horsecrap. Adding to the vocals with things like reverb and delay or managing the signal with things like compression and such make sense to me. Once you start acutally changing the original vocals with something like a pitch corrector, now it's not natural anymore. Now it's a computer generated vocal and I don't care for that.

** Just a note of trivia because I saw it in a Mix Magazine article a few years ago, Shania Twain uses NINE channels of pitch correction when she plays live. Egads!! If she wasn't eye candy she wouldn't have a career.

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Re: Shania - I was at a small studio in nashville talking to some of the musicians -they said it is the exception NOT to have pitch correction, even live, for most performers. They in fact did mention Shania. Of course everyone uses it in the studio but I can't imagine purchasing that kind of equipment for a karaoke show. Saw a not-so-nice comment on the singing that Jamie Foxx did on Idol - that they sent out a computer to sing for him. Yup, my thoughts on that one.

Just maximize your use of the board - some nice vocal effects that aren't going to run you lotsa dough will do what you need. (You don't want someone to sound like they're singing in a well - just the minimum amount so it isn't noticeable to them until you turn it off.) Occasionally I'll have a prima dona tell me, 'Hey, no reverb' on their singing - obviously because they've experienced TOO MUCH in the way of vocal effects. It is painful, after having used vocal effects for so many years, to listen to someone struggle trying to sound good because they're singing dry - I won't do it myself, for sure!

Half of being able sing in the right pitch is being able to hear and distinguish between pitches. For those that cant hear pitch correction might be a good thing.

However the artists that made this industry were those who could pick up an acoustic guitar. play piano. horn or any other instrument and didnt need a million watts to make music. They sold records with pure raw talent and not what some studio could could do to their voice.

One of the arguments I have always had for karaoke singers is they are not using expensive systems and doing everything with talent and guts. I have added a Lexicon vocal proc to my system but I am not there nor do I have the time to tweak for every singer. You have too many levels of talent and types of singers to do that. However my system is very easy to sing on..

_________________
Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

Just put a touch of reverb on the vocals with a slighter mix of reverbed music and it'll blend somewhat. I use a a vocal processor to induce a bit of artificial harmonics on the sibilant vowels which has proven to increase the intelligibility of words. In other words when the vocals are muddy you can understand what they're saying a little better. Someone with a lisp will sound like they're saying an "S" instead of a "TH". You'd be surprised at how many famous singers and personalities actually lisp. Also, when the singer sings softly and closely into the mic it sounds intimate like they're whispering in your ear.

It sounded like a simple question, with a specific price range. So I will give a to the point simple answer. If you are just using for Karaoke any of the suggested low cost multifex boxes will assist you in trying to make your singers sound a little better. All are fairly comparable to each other and are in no particular order.
http://www.zzounds.com/item--LEXMX200
http://www.zzounds.com/item--TCEM350
http://www.zzounds.com/item--TCEDOUBLE
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MidiVerb4

_________________
Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

Thank you everyone for your suggestions and help. I do own an A&H mixer and dbx compressor but wanted to fine-tune my system a little more if possible. A special thanks goes to londonlive for giving me a few different options. Peace!

Don't underestimate the value of delay effects on vocals, either. When I use my Behringer SL3242FX I use one processor for reverb and another for simple delay. The delay is good for adding something, thickness or depth or however you want to describe it, to vocals that aren't really intended to be heard with a ton of reverb, while still providing the singer with some help. I particularly like this with songs like Jack Johnson's "In Color," which sounds unnatural with a lot of reverb, but with a delayed vocal added, it really comes out sounding nice.

_________________
Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Eh, I believe that would be Jamey Johnson Sorry, I'm a country guy, so I pick up on those fast. If you get the chance, take a listen to the original track, there is actually a combination of reverb and delay used with the delay also run through the reverb. It's a pretty cool trick that actually shows up in a number of tunes.

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Not saying they were wrong or arguing in any way, but I will say this. I worked production at FuddFest and out of 8 National acts that we had, only one had pitch correctors in their racks and they didn't even patch them in. Since there are karaoke folks here you might appreciate this though. One of the acts was Sammy Kershaw. When his crew arrived one of the first things they asked us was for power to be run to center stage to power a flat panel monitor that went on the deck at Sammy's feet. As you can guess the monitor displayed the lyrics to HIS songs for him. Of course I noticed Bruce Springsteen had something similar built into the deck at the Superbowl last year so maybe that's more common than I realize too.

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

yeah but my point is...they are not stars and the moment they are away from that equipment they suck...what is easier on the person and their ego? A balanced honest sound or something that lies and has them believe Simon will love them?

_________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

One of the things I do to try to improve myself is I buy and listen to as much of the karaoke music my singers request as I have time for. That way I am more familiar with the amount of FX used on the studio recording, and the vocal level in proportion to the instruments. Almost every song you can think of is available for $1 online, so why not? Of course, I do not do this with tracks from Grease. I don't care how they sound because I am tuning it out. I think I'm allowed to hate a few songs.

_________________
Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Sorry spotlightjr. When you said "vocal processor", I assumed you were asking about either TC Helicon stuff or Antares, which is specifically for vocals. Didn't know you were asking about general effects procs. Starting a pitch correction kerfufel here wasn't needed then, eh although interesting to hear people's views on this subject

Folks, I listed pitch correction as the last thing the TC Helicon stuff can do on purpose.
I love the one stop compression, eq, and other vocal effects found on these units.
Again, only if you are not already using compression and EQ these would be something to consider. Buying these units just for pitch correction would be a mistake and using these units with noticable pitch correction, like any other effect, would be a mistake IMO. The pitch correction is adjustable. I usually use very little only when 1/4 to 1/2 semitone off and slow attack. Just rounds out and polishes the edges, like all other effects like reverb and delay. I don't see how this is any different than the chunks of change dropped on gear to make singers sound like stars, love karaoke, have fun and sound great - with compressors, eq's, reverb, delay, chorus, harmonics units etc etc...

I'd rather not sound like Britney (I never lip-synch) or Cher, thanks!

Don't you have to input the key of the song for pitch correction to work? And any of you doing this, would you put it in the singer's monitor?

I went to sing one time, and I was struggling. I could tell something was strange, but I couldn't tell quite what. I asked my wife how I sounded, and she said fine. The other singers sounded OK to me. But I asked the host if something had changed, and was told that he had gotten an Antares. He had the pitch correction on! And he used a Bose L1 with no monitor. I asked him to bypass it for me, and it never came back again. He was fired shortly thereafter, so I don't know if he still uses it.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.