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Considering the justifications provided for the various methods the last thing you want is consistency in the method you use because no two shows are alike Oh--- do no display rotation publicly




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Icdix*tions
he many possible methods and the reasons for each

That's the probelm, they don't drink and drive. They come in, get shoved to the front of the line, sing their song and go to the next karaoke bar where theiy're shoved to the front of the line again. They also tend to travel in packs so you have three or four non-paying customers bumping the paying folks back. That was my experience anyway so I stopped inserting new singers ahead of the old.

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Okay, who took my pants?

I use to insert new singers in three songs down the line before I got COmpuhost. Now they go to where the marker for the next rotation is.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

That's the probelm, they don't drink and drive. They come in, get shoved to the front of the line, sing their song and go to the next karaoke bar where theiy're shoved to the front of the line again. They also tend to travel in packs so you have three or four non-paying customers bumping the paying folks back. That was my

Good point.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

Not necessarily, i've had many new singers come in & even sometimes their wait times can be 1 hour or better & by doing an insert method, it also breaks up the packs that might hop from bar to bar. Inserting doesn't necessarily mean putting the new singer up next. Usually if it's 1 or 2 singers, they still have to wait a minimum of about 20 minutes before they get up, if it's more than that, the new singers wait times increase as well, but still getting the singers that have been there up as well.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Lon and I do things I think pretty much alike. It depends on how many singers I have when I start inserting. If there is a 2 hour wait to sing I'm not going to insert singers right away. They may wait an hour to sing. Then I'll insert maybe one every couple of songs. And like I said I don't have the bar hopper problem.

I do what works for me. I've never had anyone complain about how I do my rotation. I have although had people compliment me on the fact I keep a fair rotation with no favortism.

I had some new people come in about 6 months ago. I went to go talk to their table after I realized they were singers. I explained how things worked and I was asked about how I handle rotation. They said they liked KJs that only inserted new comers at the end of rotation. I explained how I did it and I could see there was some concern. I thought I'd lost them as customers. I was so caught off guard because I'd never had anyone say that before. They stayed the whole night even when they told me they were going somewhere else in a couple hours. They are regulars now. I know they go to another place too, but it's on my off night.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

When I have to make people wait to long to sing I get to many complaints. Most people I can slip in before an hour is up. The insert method isn't needed if you only have 10 -12 singers.

If I was losing customers or had complaints how I did rotation I'd consider changing it. But I've found this is the best way for me to keep everyone happy. Just cause it works for me doesn't mean it works for every KJ.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Exweed. Know what you mean about people singing and leaving without spending - is it worse if they stayed and didn't spend?

If they aren't spending then maybe they shouldn't be singing.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Not necessarily, i've had many new singers come in & even sometimes their wait times can be 1 hour or better & by doing an insert method, it also breaks up the packs that might hop from bar to bar. Inserting doesn't necessarily mean putting the new singer up next. Usually if it's 1 or 2 singers, they still have to wait a minimum of about 20 minutes before they get up, if it's more than that, the new singers wait times increase as well, but still getting the singers that have been there up as well.

So a new singer waits 20 minutes and the guy who got to your show early and had something to eat and a few drinks already, has to wait over an hour to sing his next song??? Great customer service..... NOT!!!!

Where is it written that singers must spend money? And nobody knows who's not! And there's nothing a kj can/shud do about it!

Shh! Someone might hear you!

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

tovmod, very simple. No one buys, no karaoke and no bar. Basic business and economy concepts.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Hey! If there's no minimum posted there is NO minimum! I know plenty singers who leave after there turn and spend little or nothing and then go to the next place and do the same thing
Eedre's no minimum posted

How do you know that old singer in question isn't directly after that new singer or directly before? What does it matter if thatr old singer has to wait through a couple of insereted singers or an entire slew of new singers at the end? I don't see the logic there? The old singers are still getting up, just don't have to wait through every new singer necessarily.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Here's an idea....you can't hand in a song slip unless you have a receipt showing that you have purchased something. Free loaders can listen for free but they can't sing for free. KJ can initial the receipt so 5 people can't use the same receipt to hand in a song. If your rotation is long enough where a new singer would have to wait for over an hour to sing his first song; you already have a successful show and if the late comers don't want to wait fairly for their turn to sing, you don't really need them at your show. If you have a short rotation, the wait won't be that long for them to wait to hear everyone else before everyone else has to hear them. If a singer gets to a show when it starts, that singer shouldn't have to listen to ANY other singer until that singer listens to him sing a song. FAIR IS FAIR. If a singer has to wait an entire rotation to sing his next song, then a new singer should also have to wait an entire rotation to sing his first song.

Not all new singers are bar hoppers. Some get off work late, some have to wait for sitters, or other situations & cannot be there when the show starts. They deserve the right to sing at least one song just as anyone else. I will make sure they get up at least once - unless it's after the point where I call for no more slips for anyone.
Our crowds sure don't seem to suffer because of this & I have a steady stream of regs that come in. It works here. Sorry to say I will probably never meet you since you don't like the way I run the rotation, but that will just leave another slot open for someone else to fill. Our bar manager & owner both agree with my stance & obey it & the till also proves it! If I had any complaints regarding the rotation, I would consider changing, however for the 16 years i've been running the show there, there aren't any. And yes I know - vote with your feet, however if that happens, there is always someone behind them to gladly 'fill their shoes' to compensate for the loss.
It works for me & the club I am in, it may not work in other clubs. Even our late comers are regular customers, they just cannot get there early - and may not have become regular customers if they could not get up - which in some cases they can't if they get there too late, but then they know and understand at that point.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Lonnie I completely agree. As for receipts, whos is to say the non-paying singer won't get one from a non-singing drinker.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I'll just never understand why some people are expected to wait an entire rotation to sing and then some other folks, who happen to show up late, don't have to wait the same amount of time.

If a show starts at 9PM and there are a bunch of regulars that get there early, a person who walks in at 9:10 might have 20 people already in front of him in the rotation and he has to wait for well over an hour to get to sing his first song.

Fast forward to 11PM and someone walks in and the KJ slips that person in within 20 minutes because "new" singers shouldn't have to wait too long to sing or they might leave. It's now 11:30PM and this "new" singer asks the KJ how long it will be before he gets to sing again. KJ tells him that there are 25 people in the rotation now and the wait will be about an hour and 40 minutes. "NEW" singer decides to leave and go to the karaoke bar down the street where he will once AGAIN be the NEW SINGER, who gets bumped up to somewhere near the front of the line.

I'm sorry but when I get done singing a song, I consider myself to be back in line and someone who comes in after that point should not sing before me, regardless of how many times I have sung already before that person showed up. There is no incentive to come early if the people who come in late DON'T HAVE TO WAIT AS LONG AS THE PEOPLE WHO SHOW UP EARLY. There is more of an incentive to bar hop than there is to be a regular customer who is at the bar for the entire show.

Show up at 9:10, wait an hour and a half......Show up at 11PM, sing by 11:20

That "poor" singer that showed up at 9:10 didn't get to sing his first song until about 10:45. That same person will not get to sing his second song until all of the people in the original rotation sing again ....plus he will now be behind everyone that showed up late because they are all put in front of him as well. If ten people showed up after he sang, he will have to hear 30 people sing before he gets to sing again. He has to wait 2 hours or longer to sing a second song while every "new singer" will sing in less than a half hour and they will all be in front of that "early bird" in any subsequent rotations if there were to be time enough for any. If enough "new" singers show up at 11PM, that "poor guy" might not get to sing again AT ALL. Consider a show that ends at 1AM. At 11PM, there is only enough time for 30 more songs to be sung. If 30 new singers showed up at 11PM and they were inserted in between every new singer, instead of at the end of the line, the resulting line of singers would consist of 15 "old" singers and 15 "new" singers. Not only would the 6 remaining singers from the"old" rotation not get to sing at all but the one's that did get to sing would have to wait twice as long to get to sing.

I think that all of the people (21) that were in the rotation when the 30 "new" singers showed up should all get to sing first and then 9 of the "new" singers would then get to sing when it was their "fair" turn.

It is SO NOT FAIR for someone to get there at 9:10 and only get to sing one song while someone who shows up 2 hours later gets to sing one song as well and winds up in front of the early customer in any other rotations time permitting. I would rather reward the person who gets there early than reward the person who gets there late. If you're only going to sing ONE SONG, you might as well just show up late, sing your song, and head to the karaoke bar down the road to sing another song.

I've never heard of a sitter who doesn't show up until 11PM. What's funny about the whole baby sitter thing is that if someone who got to the show at the 9PM starting time and they asked to get bumped up because they had to leave because the sitter had to be home by midnight, most KJ's would say "sorry but we don't bump anyone for any reason". If you have to leave, leave and I hope to see you again next week. The same KJ will then slip someone into the rotation because their baby sitter showed up late. Talk about a double standard. It just seems like a way for KJ's to be able to tell their friends that they will be able to "hook them up" if they show up late. The busier the show the more the KJ's seem to want to bend the rules. As long as the show is busy, the owner will not care what the KJ does. At a really busy show, the owner will not even notice the 5 or 15 people that left because they got bumped down when the late comers got bumped up.......unless those 15 people stop to let the manager know why they're leaving. Unfortunately, people usually just leave without letting the management know why so nothing ever changes. The manager probably just thinks that the people left early because they had to get home to relieve the baby sitter.

As far as people getting out of work late and being squeezed into the rotation unfairly because they have to work late.....they should come on a night when they don't work and get there early. If you let people break the rules, they will never follow the rules.

I don't really blame the bar hoppers. They have found a flaw in the system and they take full advantage of the KJ's who enable them to do so. The only people that can stop it are the karaoke hosts and, for the most part, they don't really care to do so. It's not much different than KJ's who let the duet divas sing 4 or 5 times every rotation with various duet partners. The KJ's just don't want to confront anyone about their attempts at exploiting the rotation. The KJ is just concerned about getting paid for their time and they don't really care if the rotation is fair or not. They get paid the same regardless of whether or not the rotation is fair. I do my best to avoid shows that allow the duet divas to play their games and I also try to avoid shows that insert "new" singers ahead of the "older" singers. If you're going to encourage bar hopping at your show, then I will "HOP" to the other shows in town too.

I'm sure it would happen but how cheap does someone look when he asks someone at the bar for their receipt so they can sing a song without spending any money? If you don't have any intention of spending some money to support the venue, then you should just stay home.