Karaoke Forums

I recently recieved a call from a restaurant that wanted my services. After meeting with the owner, I honestly think her gig is doomed to fail. Here's my reasoning:

1) The place is an upscale "NY boutique" style restaurant here in FL, with dinners STARTING around $16.00 a plate. Upscale dining, nuevo decor kinda thing. If I were paying $50-100 for dinner, I don't think I'd put up with karaoke, and I love karaoke.

2) She wants karaoke on a Monday night, which we all know is the hardest night to make successful, relatively speaking.

3) Downtown St. Petersburg, FL night life as a whole is notorious for being ridiculously packed on weekends and a ghost town on weekdays.

4) Her proposed "stage" area in the bar is very very awkward spacially and acoustically. It is almost like an indentation in the wall about 10' by 5' that resembles a broom closet with no door. It faces the bar, which only seats about 15 people, and faces AWAY from the front part of the dining room, so it would be difficult to have a good sound for more than the bar patrons, where I think it would be critical for success to play to the front part of the dining room as well, where there is seating for about another 20 or so.

I get offers for gigs like this all the time, and I always turn them down if I don't think they'll be successful. However, I am currently paying two mortgages and REALLY need the money. I tried to feel her out to see if she would be interested in a better day of the week, but she is set on Mondays. I also tried to suggest a team trivia night instead of karaoke, even at a lower rate, because I think that sort of thing would be more successful in that environment on that day, but again, she is set on karaoke.

So is it ethical, in your opinion, to take a gig knowing full well that it probably won't last long (and might be financially detrimental to the owner)?? I think some owners look at a night like this place's Monday night and think that entertainment like karoake will suddenly turn it from 10-15 patrons into 50 patrons, but there just seems to be too much working against this one for anything like that kinda turnout.

Oh, and as far as my reputation goes, I'm not worried about this tarnishing it, even if it fails, as I have more work than I know what to do with and am pretty much keeping about 2-3 other DJ/KJs in town in business just from giving them the gigs I can't do. I've been at the same bar for almost 5 years (KJ/DJ for 6.5 years overall), and still pack in 150-200 people most nights, have a successful contract with an intramural sports organization to DJ their events 3-4 times a month, and pick up about 15-20 weddings a year (on top of a full-time day job), so I'm not worried about this hurting my local reputation either way.

What do yall think?

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C Mc
KJ, FL

As a ex-owner myself I know that all owners know everything. Take the gig and do your best maybe try to change it up and try something new (if the show is doomed what do you have to loose). Might be a huge success.

John

PS: oh yea ---------Hello All

Take it if you need the money. Leave it if you don't.

Sounds like you could use the money.

BTW I think having karaoke pointed away from the main restaurant seating would be an advantage given your description of the venue and it's pricing.

I think as long as your upfront with the owner about your concerns there's nothing unethical about taking the gig. I'm very frank with the folks that hire me if there's something about the way they want a gig run that I think will be problematic. I don't tell them I want them to change it, I'll customize my show to fit, but I am clear with them about how I think it could impact the show. If they still want it that way, then fine. I offered my expertise they turned it down, so why should I feel bad if they pay me to do nothing more than setup and tear down my rig and sit around for a few hours?

Now the two areas of concern I worry about would be reputation and my own sanity. Being the host of a show that draws no crowd never looks good to people who do see you. If you've got a busy dinner crowd but can't draw in any singers, then you look pretty bad in the eyes of those in the dinner crowd. Most may not care, but you never know for sure who might talk to who and it can cast you in a bad light. Also, sitting around with nothing to do at a show is a painful experience mentally. I'm in the early stages of building a Tuesday night show and early on we've had some epically bad nights. It's horrible just sitting there with an almost empty bar where no one has any interest in who you are or what you're doing. Worse than being the jukebox in the corner.

So I'd consider all that and if the money is worth the potential negatives, then I say go for it and don't feel bad about it.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

I'd take the gig and do my best to make it work . NO harm NO foul if you use your expertise to alter your sound and show to fit the venue.

To me it's a job. If you need a job to support yourself you take it. I would take a job at a store that didn't seem like they had enough business to stay a float if I needed the job. If they want to hire me that is there decission. Who am I to say they aren't profitable enough to hire me. I don't see the ethics problem. I say go for it. You never know it may be better than you think.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Dont count it out for those reasons. I started a small biker bar back in january, and have been there every weekend with no end in sight.

Why do I call this a looser
1. maybe 5 karaoke singers all night.
2. very little participation.
3. small bar.

well, the owner doesnt care, they want karaoke every saturday night. I guess loosing $200.00 a night, doesnt hurt the bottom line. anyways it pays my bills.

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

I agree. If you don't need it, pass, if so - go for it, it's business, if they are hiring you, then do it. If you were a carpenter & someone hired you to build a house on the edge of a cliff, knowing that it was going to slide off the edge in a few months, would you turn it down? No you'd build the thing.
Just do as much free advertising on your own to promote the show as possible, but I wouldn't expect any of your regular 'followers' to show up to a place like that. Maybe on occasion. I know my situation personally couldn't afford to go to karaoke for an upwards to $100 per plate meal & like you said, if I was paying that much, I sure as hell wouldn't want to listen to karaoke.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

It's funny that I found this thread today!

Here is an exerpt from an e-mail that I just sent to a friend:

" I did what I thought was a one shot fill in last week at a little lounge in Teaneck. I was actually called at 11am for an 8pm show that night..

I had no time to promo my own singers, and since it was just a fill-in I didn't think it really mattered. Well, when I got there I found out the true story: The new owner wants to do karaoke, so he promoted ( mostly on line- pretty much worthless) a show for two weeks- and forgot TO HIRE a host. They NEVER had karaoke there before. I also found out that the promo listed the wrong night.

Needless to say, I spent the night with 2 walk-in singers, 7 bar customers, and a lot of straight DJ music- bored off my cork.

Well, after going down like the Titanic, I figured that was it. Remember, I went there thinking that I was just a fill-in anyway. No harm, no foul.....

......and I get a call today for a repeat. I explained to the owner that how it normally works is that I hire on for a 6 week min, promote, and eventually build a show. Last minute calls won't get that done, and that the same thing would probably happen. He said that's OK, come in anyway!

Well, his money is green too. I'll do it one more time, and either get my normal 6 weeks to build, or say goodbye"


So I guess I'm saying take it, and then stay for as long as you can stand it- doing the very best job that you can. Nothing says a turnaround is impossible..

I just find that doing a dead show bores my sandals off... I believe with a commitment and build time it could work there, but under present circumstances I see nothing to make it a winner.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

This reminds me of a cousin I have who lives in New Orleans. He is an interior house painter. One of his clients is this guy who owns a mansion. Every year he has my cousin paint rooms in the mansion. Sometimes it is the same room he painted just a few years ago. My cousin tells him, "You all really don't need this room painted again." But the owner likes the way he paints and keeps having him paint things. So whenever he visits Seattle, I ask him if he is still painting for the mansion owner and he always say, "Yeah, I keep telling him, 'you don't really need this painted!' but he always has me do something each year." Someone's got to do it and it might as well be an expert!

While this board has several examples of people who have had their karaoke gigs at one establishment for many years, I think the norm for a lot of kj's is that the gig fails, or rather ends, for one reason or another after a year or two or three. Given that this happens, I've often wondered why some kj's seem to play their show so conservatively ( for example, keeping the music volume down so as not to disturb this or that person, or maybe only catering to certain kinds of music...yada yada). If the bottom line is the show will only last a couple years, might as kick back and enjoy the ride, let singers sings whatever they want to, and crank it up.
But what about the upscale place that you describe? Is the bar clientele upscale also? Do they have a house tequila...or is Don Julio the house tequila?
I wonder if there is a situation where a jazz/showtune/ballad karaoke show might fill a niche. Some KJ's don't like a lot of ballads. Some don't like showtunes. But at an upscale place, maybe a show that concentrates more on these types of songs might do better. But then again, maybe not. The same person polishing off the steak, caviar, and $50 bottle of wine turn in a slip for Rappers Delight.

Letitrip has it right. If you express your concerns and they still want it, do it. You may be surprised and it takes off or it doesn't. In the meantime you've made some money, which you probably wouldn't for a Monday.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Take it IF you can handle the potential upscale dirty looks, no singers at first, and you're able to single-handedly keep it going and fresh. Heck, turn it into a "lounge act" and highlight 3 songs each of Sinatra, Dean Martin, Tony Bennett, etc... if that suits your age-appropiate crowd of listeners, and you have no singers. And of course, if you can pull that kinda thing off. Dress the part if possible and use props.

On the other hand, i would ask the owner what "kind" of demographic they're looking for and work from that. If it's a late start show then maybe all the 'older' patrons will be home in bed and you gotta somehow get younger singers in. Maybe ask the owner for discounts on appetizers or have karaoke specific specials.

Sounds like 2 mortgages are important but you may be afraid of taking advantage of the owners by taking their money. Chances are they'll write-it off on the taxes as entertainment expenses and advertising anyways, or they will hire someone else to do the gig. So take their money and pay your bills!

I would personally make a transitional non-stop karaoke disc full of medleys that covered great songs/artists and do a good performance for an older crowd before opening up the karaoke to the public. And take requests from couples and get them dancing to My Girl, Let's Stay Together, etc, or perform their wedding/anniversary song.

Your first few singers, if bad, could ruin the whole night for the audience and the staff and you want your first impression of at least YOU to be good and professional so you can take at least 4 weeks more of their money before the show "is doomed". Invite your BEST singers from your other shows first.

I don't believe there is such thing as a "loser" show. If you're an all-around entertainer then you're being paid TO entertain or cater to the entertainers (karaoke singers). Some venues just want a draw regardless if it's a "losing" proposition or not. I would be excited in trying to establish something new. If it didn't work out at least i had fun trying and being creative in my approach!

Good Luck if you take it!

You need the money and have made every effort to be honest with the bar owner. Take the gig. Besides, you can't really tell what's going to take off.

I was hired once by an owner of another bar at a gig I was working. He wanted to do karaoke on an off night and, well, money is money. So I showed up with a truck load of gear and went in to find that the place was Waaaaaayyyy too small. No where to put the mains, lighting was out of the question, it was like playing in a railroad car. I ended up playing with only my monitor speakers and the sound was just ugly. There had been no promotion and no one followed me to the gig because it was kinda far from my normal stomping grounds so I had only a few local singers. I don't play bumper music I just run my mouth between singers. I'm set for a long night.

A fairly well upolstered woman got done singing, handed me the mic, I looked at my rotation list to call up the next singer and said over my mic "Let's see...." which she mistook for "Let's see 'em" and it turned out to be a very successful night for the bar. ...so you can never tell.

Good luck

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Okay, who took my pants?

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