Karaoke Forums

The JUDGES and SCORING are probably the one thing amyone hears that is griped about overall at a contest. Most of the time it's sour grapes from people who didn't win...but there are steps that can be taken to ensure that YOU have a fair contest.

I have been in several national competitions- and have BEEN TO several competitions. The most outraged I have ever been was when I travelled 7 hours to watch a contest one of my proteges was in. I freely admit that my student shouldn't have won. I knew going in he wouldn't . He had lots of work to do and this was a learning experience for him. There were about 50 people in this contest- they had all had to "qualify" , then win their local venue to get to the regionals- they had come from 3 different states so I know they had some pretty hefty travel expenses just like we did. This national competition is a valid and reputable competition and I have supported it from the start...but this particular hosting venue almost ruined the competitions credability. They had local "celebrity" judges and that was fine...but what wasn't fine was that the judges got free drinks all night and by the end of the contest they were glassy eyed and obviously sh!tfaced. The venue's waitress was bringing them the drinks and sitting with them to make sure they had whatever they needed while the other patrons packed into this place like sardines got no service...I mean that quite literally. The only waitress sat at the judges table and only ran drinks to them. The bar was 3 and 4 deep with people trying to get drinks. But service is not my beef with this place. Out of the 50 or so contestants there were 5 who had a shot of winning the national competition(remember this was a regional) One guy in particular had it hands down..I had a copy of the judges scoring criteria and I was scoring contestants as they went for my student to see who and what was winning...and this guy had perfect scores across the board including crowd response! The other 4 singers I mentioned were all amazing vocalists with decent stage presence but THIS guy was fabulous. Had he or any of the other 4 great singers won I would not have had a problem. But he didn't...he didn't even place, nor did any of the great singer. The winner was this sad little girl who had a decent voice ...she sang a gretchen wilson tune...I won't lie and say she couldn't sing- she hit the notes..but she wasn't even in the same league( on ANY of the critera the contestants were scored on) as the other 5 singers. DID I forget to say that she was the"lone waitress" for the judges and also host venues contestant? Have any of you ever been to a contest where , when the winners are announced there is no clapping from over 300 people(except from the judges table) just dead silence...then people just start leaving. I have never seen such disgust from an audience. I told the national representative that this was a farce and that he needed to tell his boss that the venue had so blatantly rigged the outcome. He was very embarrassed. It was ironic when that same contest called ME- as a previous winner of it- to judge the national finals that year. I told them I had to disqualify myself because I couldn't in all fairness judge it because I was already biased against the contestant from my region. They asked me why...and I told them that the girl from my region had won in a rigged contest and she didn't have a chance in hell of placing at the competition. THEY were embarrassed. Note...the girl didn't even come close to placing at the finals. Bottom line I think that the venues for national competitions should NOT be allowed to have a "local' contestant...they are making plenty of money..and i think it's a conflict of interests to have a home court advantage like that....Just my personal opinion.


Now on to the judges...I know that it's not realistic to have "qualified" judges that all have vocal training to judge your contests. But it IS possible to have a well rounded panel. I don't think WHO you have judging is as important as the kind of judge you have ...and the method of scoring used. Judges should have three things at a minimum: 1) They should be UNBIASED( DON'T call someone to judge if they have competed against and been beaten by one of your contestants-Uh- HELLO??? don't call them if they are "friends" with one of your contestants I know in a perfect world they can be unbiased towards that friend...but it's NOT a perfect world and they will have to answer to their friend afterwards so DON'T put your contestants or your judges in this situation) And YES I have seen both of these done more than once! 2) have a written set of criteria to score contestants on-preferably with as little "wiggle room" for personal taste as possible(see the scoring sheet I am including) and 3) that they be requested to conduct themselves with a little class while judging. IE- no sh1t faced judges! It is your responsibility as a venue to try to adhere to these three thing at a bare minumum. You can also throw out the higest and lowest scores to prevent skewing of the scores in either direction if you think your judges may have a personal bias in any way.


As I said- I have competed in more contests than I can even remember...but I am including the BEST score sheet I have ever seen here. I'd also like to note that I DIDN'T win this contest- I came in second and lost by one point...but I completely agree with the outcome. This girl had her stuff TOGETHER and though we had comparable voices...she just plain and simple had a better PERFORMANCE than I did. The venue and Kj went to GREAT trouble to ensure that this was a fair contest and it is apparent that they took into consideration every 'gripe" that has ever been uttered in connection with a contest and tried to prevent it at this contest. They completely succeeded! If every contest used a score sheet like this it would virtually eliminate "beeyotching" afterwards because there is NO subjectivity- even if a contestant sings a song that isn't particularly to the judges personal taste. The judges have 3 choices for point value- zero, onehalf of a point or a full point. They also have to put their names on the score sheets and are held accountable if there is an obvious "false" score. I love that there isn't a wide point margin available for each individual's "personal discretion" And most of the criteria is pretty straightforward...no wiggle room!



Each judge has to circle the point value for each criteria.

Singing ability
0-1/2- 1 Is the singer on pitch
0-1/2- 1 Did they hit the notes without sounding weak/or straining
0-1/2- 1 Did they choose a song suited to their vocal ability
0-1/2- 1 Did they stay in time to the track/music
0-1/2- 1 Were they able to sustain notes/phrases without losing their breath
0-1/2- 1 Did the singer “control” the song(or sound like they were about to lose it)
0-1/2- 1 Did they avoid obvious mistakes
0-1/2- 1 Did the singer utilize the mic properly( pulling away for loud notes-closer for soft)

Song Interpretation
0-1/2- 1 Was the singer’s phrasing well done( no breathing when they shouldn’t)
0-1/2- 1 Did they have their own style or did they mimic the original well(either is fine)
0-1/2- 1 Did they use loud /soft/dynamics to make the song come alive
0-1/2- 1 Was the singer’s vocal rendition suited to the song
0-1/2- 1 Did they sound like they connected with the lyrics
0-1/2- 1 Did the singer show knowledge/mastery of the song

Stage presence
0-1/2- 1 Did they perform the song in an entertaining manner
0-1/2- 1 Was the outfit/costume appropriate/suited for the song
0-1/2- 1 Did they utilize choreography
0-1/2- 1 Did they draw the crowd/you into the performance
0-1/2- 1 Was the use of props appropriate/well done
0-1/2- 1 Was the costume/outfit flattering to the singer
0-1/2- 1 Were they able the sing the song without looking at the monitors(did they know the song well)
0-1/2- 1 Were they enthusiastic/ emotionally in sync with the song
0-1/2- 1 Was the singer confident on stage and comfortable with the song

Extra credit- only give to those who exhibit these “above and beyond” performance attributes
0-1/2- 1 Did they show unusual talent/range/skill or even a “pro” level skill
0-1/2- 1 Was their costume “extra special” for the performance or did they do anything unique to set
them apart from anyone else you have heard sing this song
0-1/2- 1 Was the timing and or lyrics of the song selection “challenging” (changing tempos, tricky
wording, etc)

A perfect score would be 23 and the highest score possible- a 26- judges can give o points, ½ a point, or 1 whole point. The extra credit section is only for those contestants who “go the extra mile”


Ain't THAT a BEAUTIFUL score sheet? Even if they individual judge HATED the song...this forces them to be subjective. It also allows each contestant to see where and how they can improve for the next performance. I'll be HAPPY...no make that OVERJOYED to email this to anyone who wants a copy to use for a future contest or referance regarding one!


Hope this turns out to be informative to both contestants, KJ's, and judges!

_________________

Wow ! Great info !

I'm glad to see information like this in the forum, so if people are going to do contests they do it right.

I would say the biggest complaint I hear, if not the only one, is judging is unfair. People being scored by applause only is my biggest peeve. It's more about who has more friends in the audience than talent.

I myself do not do contests. It would be suicide at it's best. We have trouble when they judge the costume contest every year for Halloween. I myself stay away from any part of the judging because of it. Someone always gets upset because they didn't win and complain it was unfair. Luckily I don't loose patrons over it because they blaim management.

_________________
[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

if you ever need a copy of this score sheet for your managament- I'll be more than happy to send it to you.


I just hope posting it on here will get it out there to more venues...I think it's so sad when a singer really puts in that extra effort and gets crushed when they fnd themselves involved with an unfair or partial contst/panel of judges. The honest venues now have somethng at their disposal that would eliminate a lot of griping...yeah there will always be sour grapes- but if the panel uses a score sheet like this- and allows the contestants to see them after the contest..I think it will give the singers very specific areas they can improve on(as well as a specific reason(s) why they didn't win over whoever did)- instead of mindless complaining that "they didn't understand how the contest ended up the way it did so it must be fixed" With something this specific- there isn't alot of room for negotiation from any side--host venue, singer, KJ, or judge. Lets just hope they're on here and read it.

_________________

BTW- forgot to give credit for this score sheet where it's due! Vern- congrats - you held to cleanest and most fair competition I have ever seen...and if any of you karaoke-ers are in the Tampa Fla area. I HIGHLY recommend his show! Vern you rawk!

_________________

Sadly most of the joke contests use a scoring system that just begs for problems - 3 categories each out of 5 or 10 - stage presence, singing ability, and crowd response or something equally as inane. Of course, it's probably appropriate for the average bar on the corner contest.

I created a scoring sheet years ago that got away from me last year somehow and I didn't have a backup copy of it (computer crash) - I actually loaned my only hard copy it to a guy doing a local contest - not sure if he used it, was probably too complicated for him, but mine was similar. It actually allowed the judges to score completely while the singer was on stage, starting from their entrance, their communication with the crowd, to costuming, to singing ability - by the time the singer finished, the score sheet was done, handed to the scorer, and on to the next singer. By the time the last singer sang, it was simply a matter of putting the scored sheets in order and there was no 45 minutes of time while scoring was completed. The scoring system broke everything down into small numbers so the chance of having ties was pretty well nonexistent. I think I'll recreate it and share it again because I've watched what should have been good contests turn into a sham because of the scoring method.

At any rate, the bulk of the contests I've organized and judged have involved pretty high caliber singers and I went to the trouble of finding music professionals (thankfully my involvement in the music community put me in touch with many who were willing to help me) to assist in judging. On the other hand, I have intentionally stayed away from the "we wanna get some people in this joint" contests because it isn't worth the time and energy it takes to do them. Not my cup of tea.

Thanks OOAK for sharing all this info. We can HOPE that those in need of these things will pick up on it and implement it.

I entered a national karaoke contest last night and won female country. There was a male country winner, nad a pop winner. Well I was the only female that entered, the male that won the country category was the only one in that category. 3 males entered the pop category with one of them the winner. The over-all winner went to the male pop winner who won a 3 day and 2 night stay somewhere for 2. I feel that the country winners should at least have gotten a certificate, but got nothing. Well at least the 3 of us made the local finals to be held next week. I guess that's ok.

sounds like Talentquest..with those categories! Is it?? That's a great contest if it is!

_________________

Yes it is.

...I figured it was! I won the female pop category in 2003.. But then I had an incident with the sprinkler systems and ended up having to pay 3000 for the damage! I was the MORON who hung a gown from the sprinkler to steam it and the dayum thing went off. In my defense- I had a different kind of sprinkler system where I used to live and I hung stuff on it ALL the time...how was I to know the hotel was a different system??? That black gunky water in those pipes it just GROSS! So...as my husband says...I banned myself from going to THAT particular contest again Wauuughhhhh! BUt- you have a treat in store for YOU ..It IS a great competiton and you'll have a blast! You'll meet SO many wonderful people too. The level of talent at the nationals in all the categories is amazing...they take their singing and performance SERIOUSLY! So if you're going to laughlin- make sure you're prepared! You'll need a minimum of 3 song to do for the competition. You have to do 2 different songs in the preliminary rounds..and one more(different one) if you make the top 20. You're allowed to repeat one of those- or do a fourth different one of you get to the top5. So get ready. Other then NOT hanging anything on the sprinklers my only other advice is :Just stay out of the caboose lounge at night when you get to the nationals(they have karaoke every night during the competition)...too much smoke! Save your voice for the actual competition. Lemme know how ya do!

_________________

Will do.

I'M MOVING ON TO FT. WORTH !!!!!!!!!!

congrats GF! Set your sights on LAUGHLIN!

_________________

Hey Kamera- what you singing in the next phase?

_________________

I'm not sure just yet. I will need to go over my list and figure it out. I'm excited.

In the local contests, why don't the contestants dress up? It's a contest. Even on the locals I feel they should dress for it. What do you think?

I think within moderation dressing the part is good,,,but i wouldn't break out the vegas costume for a local. ( wink) It;s kind if like overdressing for an audition- you come across as pretentious. As long as what you're wearing suits the song and looks good on you...whatever you feel comfortable in is best...when you get to laughlin...THEN break out the serious costumes! Plus...those outfits cost LOTS...I wouldn't invest in them until you know 100% that you're going to the finals. But for locals...not so important. Make sense too...think about it...the talent level rises at each level of competition. So when you get to the latter stages...you have BUNCH of really good singers...so the contest will come down to other things like costume and stage presence if the vocals are all pretty even.

_________________

This is a great thread, and I agree with nearly all of it. Thanks for this, Oneofakind.

Good luck in the next round, and congrats,kameragurl.