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Cool. Of all the KJs to pick that rant with was the guy who has a howling dog/ coyote as his logo, and howling good time as his motto! If that don't say, singers of any talent welcome, I don't know what does!

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

To me it sounds like she pretty much is just justifying a closed show for her "regulars".

Many of my regulars would like to sing at least once every hour or two that means a rotation of no more than 20. And I can have 20+ regulars at a show sometimes and that can create problems. I can and often do get accused of favoratism without doing it.

Sure she may want good singers, but how does she know who is a good singer if they have not sung before.

As for good songs that is really personal choice. In my opinion a song that I may not like that much but sung VERY well is more enjoyable in terms of karaoke than my favorite song sung badly.

I have been amazed with well done songs from whole genres of music that i in general dislike.

She apparently dislikes ballads, but the fact that so many have been written, and that so many have been sold, and made into karaoke apparently a lot of people do like them.

I think the irony of having the "fastest no-nonsense rotation" and "her putting in a non-karaoke song" when she feels like the songs/singers are "bad" is a bit contradictory. Maybe it is fastest rotation for her friends and drive out the rest.

I got a kick out of the fact that she says her mind goes blank and she can barely function if someone comes up and asks an "assinine" question while she's juggling and rearranging the rotation to her liking. How rude of those people to screw up her screwing up of the rotation by daring to talk to her.

What's funny about her show is that it seems to attract a much older crowd on average....if you check out the pics on her web site....and this particular age group isn't really known for singing up tempo songs...at least not around here. Nothing gets a crowd up on their feet like another rousing rendition of MY WAY by Frank Sinatra. ;c) There must be a whole lot of jitter buggin' at the WOO SHOW.

Hmmmmm.
http://wookaraoke.com/blog/photos/woo/? ... &gallery=4
Check out the sixth pic. NSW

My rotation is my rotation. I run it my way. I feel it is the fairest way. I run it like I am a singer, and how as a singer I would want it done. There may be other mitigating circumstances. The skill of the vocalist is never one of them. My rules are set in 24kt gold leaf, and I reserve the right to change rules as required by situation. In other words, I am flexable, and I am the final word in my own show.

I know many think this cocky. My regulars who love me just know it's the crazy ex marine who they love spending Friday and Saturday nights with.

Felix

Woo....Karaoke Natzi........no mic for you!

at first I was a bit irritated at the flavor of the initial post, and then I took MY ego out of it and honestly read what Dan started out saying... that this Ms Woo ran an elitist karaoke show.

I disagree with about everything she stands for. I've been doing karaoke for 15 or more years myself, and while I applaud her success, she's everything I hate about elitism.

I made my money in the karaoke game by knowing how to treat people fairly, and to run a straight and honest show.

If I wouldn't let the "horrid" singers sing, then my show would quickly have gotten the reputation of not being fair.

but yeah, bill yourself as a show "other" than karaoke, or say "Karaoke Superstars... we showcase the BEST singers!"

I'd be so upset if I went into her show... Babs had it right. Talk about a place just begging to have the most complaints ever!!

You know, I'm starting to find this thread almost comical. I can't believe how bent out of shape some of you are getting over this. It's her show, let her run it how she wants. If it works for her great, what difference does it make to you? Hell, if you're right about how she's driving away singers then you should be happy because that's more singers coming to shows possibly run by the folks that visit this board and believe in karaoke being open to everyone.

I agree that there is a fundamental flaw in the strategy Woo & Friends employs and that's the thought that Karaoke is meant for good singers. For crying out loud Karaoke is the Japanese word for dissonance (i.e. bad singing). I believe in Karaoke being the place where anyone can sing on stage in front of a crowd and have fun with it no matter how good or bad they are. For most that is about the only chance they'll ever have to do that.

But that said, what did Woo do to any of you? How many have been to her shows? Dan you chose to go out and not only criticize her publically but then attempted to post criticism on her site? Seriously? What is your goal? Seriously I can't phathom what has got some of you so up in arms. I'll say I'm glad Sandra came in here and made sure her side of the argument was heard, nothing worse than a one sided argument.

For those that want to keep the "ranting", criticisms and personal attacks going, ask yourself this. How would you feel if one of the KJ's here posted the same types of things about your show, based only on your website (without having actually seen your show), on another KJ forum somewhere else without your knowledge? Seems to me that did happen once before and the folks here were none to happy about it. Perhaps give that some thought before you choose to call out someone so specifically like that, especially when they aren't here to answer your criticisms.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Just wanted to clear up one major misconception about Woo and Friends karaoke. It is NOT an elitist show. While there are a good deal of great singers at her shows, a good many more (perhaps the majority) are average at best. Further, she does NOT dictate that you must be awesome to sing in her show--far from that. She welcomes new singers all the time--and some (trust me) are horrid.

The main thing Woo tries to do (and does rather well) is balance the good with the not so good. Overall, on an average weekend night at her show it is so packed that each and every singer (good or bad) might get three songs to sing. If you are an awesome singer, you will likely get to open the show, but you will also likely NOT get more mic time than a bad singer. You might get pulled into a different place in the rotation for a needed change to the lineup, but no one else is going to get bumped because of it.

It is also a very fast paced show. Woo uses no canned music between songs.That gives the next singer about 15 seconds to make it onto the stage, or she moves on. She also tries to balance male and female singers, ballads and fast songs, serious songs with fun group tunes. (I tried sitting in as a guest host on a "slow" night and I simply couldn't keep up with the pace.)

This sort of balancing act is a LOT of work, but as a professional entertainer for many years, it's the way Woo wants to do it. And it's great -- not only for the audience -- but for us less than average singers as well. Woo also encourages the audience to dance along with all the singers. And the dance floor is usually packed. This helps add to the feeling that you are performing as part of an entertaining professional stage show, rather than just singing a song.

Will it work for every venue? No. Will it work for ever singer? No. Will it work for every KJ? No. But it does work for Woo and has worked well for many years. It’s merely an alternative style of karaoke.

I used to run a similar format only we were more subtle about it. I dont have many rules but rotation is fair. However if drunks and hard core karaoke singers are disrupting the flow and running partying customers away I have the obligation to remedy the situation. This does not mean I have to play favoritisms. But I am not running a special olympics type show either. Also if I want to give priveledges to those who support my shows and contribute on a regular basis then I will do so. If a customer wants a dance song and the rotation is not super great, I will play it. You speak of showing favoritisms yet you ignore part of your crowd and discriminate against them. Is this fair? I dont think so. I run a well balanced show that caters to all. All you whining singers can go elsewhere. And believe me the till does not suffer but becomes healthy again. Some here have no regard for the regular bar crowd (dancers) or regular singers. My crowds do not consider drunks trying to sing as entertainment.

If her show is one that I wouldnt have to put up with radical karaoke singers or archaic rules then I would prefer it to the old ways. Karaoke mania and strict rules do not attract large SRO drinking crowds most of time anymore. Nor do they attract old timers like me that got burned out by the same old crap week in and week out.

In fact I am evaluating a new host right now that doesnt like the bar crowds and I am considering letting him do family type venues and parties. Frankly I am tired of these old selfish one-sided egomaniacal attitudes.

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If she's adjusting the rotation, that's elitism.

The kind of complaints that I've seen that come from her or her customers about the bad singers is ELITISM.

The comment of "Alternate Karaoke"... IS ELITISM!!!

You may not like the word, but that's what it is. If you don't like the bed that you're laying in, don't MAKE IT.

And that brings us full circie! Look, any KJ with such contempt for her audience to say......should neither be in the service nor entertainment business.

At my show last night we had probably 200 people crammed in the place. By around 11:30 the show is full for the rest of the night with about 30 people in the queue and I pick up the songbooks. Over the next 2 hours, I'll probably have another dozen want to put songs in, and I courteously tell them I'm happy to take them on "standby" in case someone with a slip in leaves, but I can't guarantee there will be enough time to get them in the rotation.

One of the singers who got up was bad. Could neither hit the notes nor could get the lyrics in time with the music. And it was like a 5 minute song. A guy who'd come up to me before trying to convince me to let him sing told me, "I can't believe he gets to sing and I don't! I sing so much better than that guy!"

I refreshed him on Karaoke 101. When the singer is on stage, it's all about the SINGER - not the audience! (And don't non-singers who come to watch a karaoke show expect to see a few clunkers? Don't we all love the American Idol auditions for that reason?) Good or bad, it's the singer's moment in the spotlight. Unless they're intentionally singing obnoxiously or making fart noises in the mic, they can sing how they wish. They'll always get an enthusiastic intro from me and a call for applause when they're done.

I guess Woo doesn't get that karaoke is all about the singer enjoying themselves. What singer doesn't want to do their best to make the crowd like them?

Seems like we'll never know because we'll probably never hear directly from Woo. Sounds fair not to ask Woo about php, and not to expect her webmaster to talk about karaoke hosting. For Woo not to be able to address a 3-page thread about her all by herself smacks of a fragile ego which perhaps some feel has to be shielded and protected from anyone who's not offering praise. Me? I know not everyone will love me and would rather hear honest opinions from my peers than "regulars and Friends" people blowing smoke up my @$s.

As Seinfeld would say, "Good luck with all THAT!"

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[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

I don't mind her doing what she does in her area because there is a big enough population to support different types of shows. But the lines that denigrate other karaoke shows as featuring horrid and boring singers don't go down too well.

The thing about karaoke is people sing for different reasons. I have met several people who did it as a confidence builder after a break-up or other horrible life event. Getting up there and trying it made them feel brave like if they can handle this, they can handle other things (how many female's first karaoke song was being egged on by their friends to attempt "I Will Survive." after they've been dumped?") Plus they end up meeting a new crowd of people to help them through.

We have a couple of people at our show who consider just getting up in front of an audience and finishing the song to be a great acheivement whether they did anything near singing or not. Now I can understand how Woo might think that "therapist" is not a role she wants to take on as an "entertainment" hostess but most karaoke shows have an element of therapy to them and that is what keeps us all singing.

exactly. I don't mind her show... I just wouldn't go there myself, no matter how good I think I am. But don't bill it as a typical karaoke show. Change the wording.

There have been shows like that I've seen. More power to them I say. Especially down the street from me. Once people see the favortism and attitude, they might try my show looking for something more their style.

My only problem with it being billed as "karaoke" is it could give the unsuspecting customers (or someone who's never tried karaoke before) as "OH! Well no THANKS!"...

Here is my point of view on the subject, and I am not a KJ nor a Karaoke singer. I go to Karaoke bars to listen to my husband sing. He would probably be considered an average or better singer. Good but not great.

First, from what I have heard about this KJs MO and attitude, I would never go to her show. I find her attitude repulsive. However, I can see how it could work in some situations, and appratntly it works for her. Still does not make it right, but if that is how she wants to live her life, then so be it.

From my perspective, many people go to a Karaoke bar to sing and have fun. The fun should be provided to anyone who comes and spends their money at the venue. We usually go to small venues who have Karaoke as a means of increasing patronage. Therefore, if someone comes in and drinks (and eats if it is that kind of place), then they should be afforded a fair opportunity to sing, regardless of their talent. The only exceptions should be very drunk and disrespectful people.

As for juding a singer by apparance, it is the same as judging a book by it's cover. Not a good indicator. My husband, who is a pretty good singer, is a thin, tatooed guy who looks like a biker. Just last night he sang at a bar, after work, wearing a wife beater in all his tatooed glory. I'm pretty sure when he got up and sang Still by The Commodores, people did not expect it. He tries to sing songs appropriate to the venue, although he mostly does ballads.

Our favorite KJ usually keeps pretty close to the rotation but will put upbeat dance music inbetween when there are too many ballads or bad singers. I think that is a fair way to break it up, without favoring certain singers.

That is my two cents worth.

Well, granted I haven't run karaoke in 15 years- but back when I did...I had a very unusual show..The place I worked was in Myrtle beach and had a good local following- but there were always tons of tourists too. So many, that it was rare that even a good singer or a regular got up more than twice a night. The regulars knew that I tried to never do more that 2 ballads in a row so they always handed me in a stack of songs and told me to choose what I needed them to sing when their turn came up. I knew them and what their true fav songs were so I tried to accommodate them. I also worked in first time singers within 4 or 5 songs so they at least got to sing once...But I got SO MANY DRUNKEN singers that just plain sucked! Some just stood there in a stupor staring at the screen but so hammered they couldn't even begin to find how to start the song. Some just couldn't sing...nothing more boring that seeing group after group of drunks that can't sing coming up. Two or three of those could literally clear the bar. So the owner and I cooked up a "Gong show" karaoke..and put it on the marquee outside...OMG! Business at al already crowded show WENT THROUGH THE ROOF!. My slogan when people came up was "you better be really good...or so good at being BAD that it's entertaining!" There was a huge gong and if a majority of the crowd booed the singer they got gonged and the show went on. Yeah there were a few times when that rowdy crowd wasn't in the mood for a ballad- and a truly good singer got up to sing one...I would stand behind the singer an glare at anyone that tried to start booing! In all but a very few cases...no one got booed that could actually sing...and even if you sucked but got up and did a song that the crowd liked- you didn't get the gong. I guess it worked because everyone knew coming in that the gong was a part of the show. It surprised me that as many regulars came out knowing that they would only get to sing 1 or, at BEST- 2 songs! I think everyone got a kick from singing in front of such a HUGE crowd that actually showed enthusiasm when they liked a song. ( personally, as a singer, I'd rather sing ONE song in front of a BIG responsive audience- than 10 songs at a nearly empty show. I'd also rather SLIT my wrists that sit through a show that has 10 maudlin ballads all in a row!) Did I have a buncha pirma donna diva's or opera singers as regulars absolutely NOT(bad attitudes and religious or operatic songs didn't go over well with drunk college kids) ...but the regulars I did have were darn entertaining!. Is this kind of show for everyone? NOT IN A MILLION YEARS...but I think Ms Woo- probably has something of the same set up- minus the actual gong. There are probably many people who go to her show and leave outraged and dissappointed by the way she runs her show...but there are also probably just as many NON- singers and good singers that frequent her show because it WON'T be a typical karaoke show. It's obviously made the owner happy or she wouldn't be there still....I wanna know who gave her the award? What kind of award was it?...one of those consumer awards where the people in the area vote on "best karaoke show" if it is...then "her" crowd and regulars have spoken loudly and it works for her. I do think she ought to say something in her promo that would warn a would be "karaoke- singer" of the difference in her show versus a normal show...but other than that. I don't have a problem with it....

then again...I might not be being fair either..I'm a professional vocalist so I;ve never been on the receiving end of that particular "judging bad singers as not worthy to sing" stick. But just as there are many types of music for everyone- there should probably be more than one "type" of karaoke show too. The bottom line is...do what works for you and your venue. If you go to a show as a singer and don't like what you see(or hear) leave. Karaoke is all over the place now...As a footnote- it would suck if a show like this was the only one in town...IMHO- this sort of show would work BEST in an area where there are lots of shows to choose from- that way the mediocre or bad but enthusiastic singers still have a place to have fun too. PLus- you NEED to have a LOT of people coming to your show if you're gonna be that picky about who gets up because - if you're THAT choosy and you don't have the crowd to sustain it...you won't have a "show" very long. If Ms Woo is still there and has won that many awards- then she must have a HUGE crowd to draw from....she must also be doing something right- at least with THAT demographic crowd. Disagree all you want...it's working for her. I can also say that if I'm ever in here area- I'd be darn interested in checking out her show! I always like a good challenge-

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YOU GO, DUDE!

Hmmm. I don't care if you suck, but you've got to at least make the effort. If you're that hammered, I cut the mic, stop the music, and move on to the next singer. There's a difference between "i'm so drunk I sound bad," and "I'm so drunk I have no sound."

Sit down, and let someone else who really wants to sing come up, and don't waste everybody's time.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

If it were advertised as GONG SHOW KARAOKE, I'd understand the fact that the lousy singers would get a very short amount of time on stage. I would actually enjoy that type of show every once in a while. It would be fantastic to be able to GONG a lousy version of Paradise By The Dashboard Light before the 2nd minute began.