Karaoke Forums

Had a discussion with jess at the guitar center and he was saying the club owners demand an attendance 200+ crowd or his band wont be hired again. It is a problem in this area. I said it is not our responsibility to reserect a dying bar or breath life back into it. I sort of feel that it is the venues responsibility to to get folks in and my responsibility to keep them there for the night and bring them back.

Actually it is a joint effort and all sides must have the same goals and have a plan to fill the seats and keep them coming back. These are the things that need to be discussed here at length in an open adult manner. Arguing about fill music or rotation or things beat to death here is trivial. We need some new ideas about promoting and improving our business into bigger and better things.

Lets get a positive attitude and mind sharing thing going here. We have some new members and lurkers in the bushes. Remember what might work in your area will bomb in others. Thoughts??//

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Absolutely correct, Karyoker. In the PNW we have been infiltrated by what is called "pay to play" - the club owners expect the bands to actually SELL TICKETS TO THEIR SHOWS! There is an abundance of clubs that really don't put out much effort to breathe new life into their businesses - many are dirty, and have poor service, and really poor access for bands (waiting in the alley, 3-4 cars lined up at one door, taking turns loading in and out, competing with rats for the space). Others continually book 3 bands a night - each one plays for 40 minutes or so, and half the evening is consumed by bands tearing down and setting up. And if this is a split the door situation, you're never really sure if you're going to get anything at all. Too many clubs pull fast ones on the bands and there is no way to verify what actually came in at the door.

Clubs in this area come and go rapidly - they are sharing the limited number of people who actually go out to listen to live music anymore. The casinos pay well (they need the write-off) and some of the bands making the casino circuit really are substandard at best. Some of the big name bands that are doing the casino circuit are getting $20,000 for a 2-hour show...mmmhhh....

Years ago it was possible for bands to actually make a living playing - not so much anymore. Clubs have the gall to offer "the door" as pay. Others offer $200! It is ludicrous.

There are many issues that have created this dilemma for bands - one in particular is the drunk driving laws. People are scared to go out and listen to a band (or 2) for a few hours, have a few drinks, and risk getting pulled over. In this area it is not uncommon for the cops to lurk around the clubs waiting for closing time.

I'm not sure what I can suggest in terms of making things better - many of the clubs we (band) play in don't even seat 200 people....the classic clubs down in Pioeer Square in Seattle are small, crowded, dirty, and the panhandlers outnumber (and make more money than the bands) the club patrons.

How many cover bands do you want to hear? And how many original bands play a set where every song sounds the same? How many people want to drive 30 miles to hear a band they've never heard before? How many bands misrepresent their shows?

I associate more with bands than with karaoke and it is a constant topic of discussion. If you've got ideas, Karyoker, please share. We've been in this business far too long to even say and it's been a sad turn of events to watch the whole industry slide axx-first into the ditch. Karaoke seems to be keeping on keeping on, thankfully and it isn't for lack of effort on our part - seems like it is easier to sell a karaoke show now than to sell a live music show. Score one for our side.

Wow They are expected to bring in 200 people to start? I would think a band that could do that would have a pretty hefty price tag to their services.

Even if you have followers it takes time to build a big crowd in a new venue. The bar has to be up to par too. They have to have good bartenders, wait staff and offer specials.

Some bars have a good reputation which naturally brings in a large amount people, but to expect the entertainment to bring in 200 people from the blue is a bit much in my mind.

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The music scene, especially for bands, isn't what it used to be. I actually think quite a bit of it has to do with the consumerization of pro-audio equipment. It used to be that if you were running a band you had to either invest a lot of money in equipment or in hiring a production company. These days, PA and other equipment is so cheap and specialized for small bands that there just simply are way more bands than there used to be. Also (and maybe this is due to drunk driving laws or something) the big clubs that used to have bands every night and had room for 200-300 people are disappearing fast. Around here we used to have a number of great country music clubs like that, but the line dancing craze killed them. Bands would bring in huge crowds but most would be line dancers that drank water and soda all night. Cover charges can't replace a $50 bar tab so down went the clubs despite being packed.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Well, let me chime in for karaoke. First and foremost I explain to the bar owner that karaoke is an investment. I do have a following, but it is unlikely that alone will fill seats week after week. The key is bring NEW faces into an old bar.

I'm on Facebook, Myspace, Karaoke Adventures, MD Party.com, Twitter, and I have my own web page. I have flyers printed that show all the places I play at, and if asked, I hand them out.... "Hey Koyote, where else to you play at?"... And then there's email... if you're not collecting them you're missing the boat, period, the end. Not into computers? Too bad. If you really want improve the business you'll learn.

The bar owner needs to show as much enthusiasm about promoting karaoke night in his bar as you do... if not, you're probably wasting your time.

I try to get my gigs in the same area, but not too close together. Enough for a little cross feeding, but not too close in that I am over exposed. Its a tough balancing game.

Next is word of mouth. This will make or break you, but you can't be successful without it. They need to come back the following week, and bring friends that's all there is to it.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

I heard about a place last week by word of mouth, and went there last night. I heard three guys do the best version of Stevie Wonder's I Wish that I've ever heard. They ad-libbed, they had harmony, and they carried the song through even on the long outro. It turns out they've got an upcoming gig at a local casino.

What were my impressions of this new place I'd never been to? The bartender seemed friendly (not all bartenders are--some are can be kind of sullen). The bartender didn't interfer with the karaoke at all. On the other hand, after they served me, they never came back and asked if I wanted anything else. While I hate pushy service ("Would you like a New York Steak, fries, and cheesecake with that MGD you just ordered?"), it seems good hospitality to cruise by an hour later and see how things are going, especially for a new customer whose style of ordering you aren't familiar with. Good, professional, hospitality can be hard to come by. Still, I liked the place. The KJ didn't lose track of the rotation, or drop any slips on the floor, and the sound was decent. The crowd wasn't huge. It was mostly made of singers. I might spend another shekel or two there next week.

It all depends on overhead.

One of the local clubs has a capacity of about 600 people and on show nights they usually run with 2 doormen, 6-7 bartenders, 2 sound techs + 2-3 other people. This is not including entertainment.

Another club usually runs weekdays with one bartender period. On weekends it is 2 bartender +1 doorman.

The first bar probably needs well over 100 people in the place to make a profit. The second bar can probably justify opening on a weekday with 10 people.

Unfortunately with karaoke in most cases it is difficult to run a pure regular karaoke show that will attract much more than 50 singers in a night, because they know that the wait will be very long to sing, and they may not be able to.

Sometimes if the club serves food or has other entertainment in other rooms, it can go over the 50 singers + 50 non singers limit, but in general that is probably the upper limit for a show that runs regularly.

Unless there are real professional singers I doubt a karaoke show can get to 200 except for a special event/party.

Mind sharing the name of this place, SD?

AlL excellent ideas. I am so excited and just can't wait to implement them! Thanx to all posters

Running a successful "bar/pub" business relies on many factors of which entertainment is one of.
Location and Parking are staples of any business
Quality of service and prices are others
Is the staff and management friendly and accommodating?

If the place is successful , karaoke can add to the experience of going to the venue.
As KJ's we discuss what makes a GOOD show - we can argue about rotation and or the use of DJ/DANCE/FILLER MUSIC.
But in theory the venue and customers can dictate what type of show you NEED to run to be a succes ..AT THE VENUE
All Venues are unique and require constant adjustments of your show style ( maybe little tweaks here and there )

Another obstacle to overcomme is the drinking and smoking laws along with the poor economy have made staying home more attractive to many.

Can Karaoke alone save a failing bar ….. I doubt it / Karaoke is a tough biz…. If you bring in enough singers to carry the profit of a bar
Chances are your rotation would be TOO BIG to keep a majority of the singers happy …Can it be done ..MAYBE but not likely.

As a KJ I would suggest to find work in SUCCESFUL and BUSY bars if you want longevity. If you try to take a show on the hopes and expectations
Of BRINGING IN THE CROWD and making the bar profitable ..In todays world …...risky in my opinion

Hello All

Karoke is a partnership between the bar and the KJ.
Bar owners ... for all their tries. sometimes don't have much business sense.
They hire a KJ and don't advertise them in the papers, on the sign, on their website OR IN THE BAR! C'mon!

KJ's can be guilty of the same, they don't put in their books where they can be seen, put the name of the bars on their website or send emials of up-coming events to their customers.

Bar owners have to have a nice place, good food, and good servcie. I don't care how good the KJ is or the crowd is ... if the service sucks, I'm not staying or I won't come back.

Best way to pull in a crowd is to be good at your show, collect ways to inform people of your shows and keep your name in front of them

Jason

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Jason Christopher
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