Karaoke Forums

I think you spout nothing but air.
How about a LINK?????
You've been asked 4 times and now this is #5.
Anyone can write a bunch of meaningless numbers and claim it's a case.
How about letting us read it for ourselves?

But even Sound Choice has stated in a recent note they would NOT go after hard drive users with proof of original discs in possession.
As I 'profess' to be? You can see my discs sitting on the counter of my show each & every night. What I have in my computer there is a corresponding disc ON premies to prove. If I had to I could turn the computer off any given night & still have the exact same selection sitting on my counter with no lag time in between.
But once again, I will ask for a link to the case.

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US District Court filings are available to the general public.

WHICH District court?

Good catch Lonman.

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Dave's not here.

why are you guys even bothering? He'll do the same thing he always did. Rant and rave and never provide any details.

Well since you do not seem to be able to provide links, I did happen to find the case you are referring.
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court- ... id-456959/

Again, I will stand by my assumption that it is most likely those who do not own original discs. Of the names & bars mentioned, most state 'extensive' or largest or best 'digital' library.

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Hmmm. This appears to be a trademark infringement case, not Copyright infringement. Two entirely different animals.

Apparently Phxkj isn't aware of this very large distinction.

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Dave's not here.

Well I don't think trademark infringement even would apply, maybe again if they all didn't own the originals to correspond with their library.

Trademark infringement - Infringement may occur when one party, the "infringer", uses a trademark which is identical or confusingly similar to a trademark owned by another party, in relation to products or services which are identical or similar to the products or services which the registration covers.

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PhxKJ is correct. I have been doing some snooping around. I callled a friend high up in the business and they confirm this is true and claim to have seen a copy of the lawsuit. Trust me, this is coming from a very RELIABLE source. The lawsuit WAS filed in AZ District Court a couple days ago and has to do with trademark issues. Many KJ's and bars are named in it. I was told this is in a case that is "10 years overdue---first of it's kind" and "will shake up the entire karaoke community in the US".

I've probably said too much...don't want to lose my information source....I'm trying to get my hands on a copy of the case, but I'm sure I'll have to wait for it to appear online. Will post it when/if I do. Is there a lawyer out there who has access to the dockets? I think it costs money to download cases. It may or may not be available to see on the online sites yet since it was just filed a couple days ago. Wow....this could really shake things up..

In searching for this I got sidetracked by some other sites and may have insight-- on the US Karaoke Alliance site it says that Sound Choice had people visit 10 bars in Arizona based on tips of using illegal hard drives. Of the 10 bars, 8 were given letters advising them of the legalities of hiring illegal hosts and the hosts were given letters advising them to come into compliance. Maybe this is related as the cases mentioned are in Arizona?


http://www.uskaraokealliance.com/Karaoke_Legal_Talk.htm

Just to save time, I think I can quote what is said on the link without violating anything?

"The US Karaoke Alliance is teaming with Sound Choice, one of America’ premier karaoke disc manufacturers, to take a bite out of piracy of karaoke music. Kurt Slep, CEO of Sound Choice, recently visited the Phoenix, AZ metro area and with the assistance of Eric Godfrey, President of the US Karaoke Alliance, Alan Malarkey, owner of AAA Entertainment and Bobby Brooks, owner of UR Entertainment, he visited 10 local bars and night clubs to investigate reports of illegal karaoke content being used. Based on the visits 8 of those 10 establishments and have been sent letters explaining how to determine if a KJ might be using illegal content and how this might adversely affect their businesses. KJ’s have been contacted directly via letters and given a period of time to respond and correct the copyright and/or trademark violations they might have before getting the bar involved an escalating into a legal matter. Clubs visited were in Phoenix, Scottsdale, & Chandler, AZ."

From US Karaoke Alliance site

BTW....for you one-to-one users...

I was told that even though the Manufacturers were mostly likely not going to pursue one-to-one, they are making it very clear they do not have the "right" to say it's legal either....meaning, the music publishers may come after you someday. In other words....proceed at your own risk using a laptop/hard drive...EVEN if you own original discs.

This karaoke case will get the attention of the music publishers. If the music publishers "smell" money in going after KJ's & Bars too, they will start doing just that. After all, i've heard the main stream music industry is making more money via litigation than through music sales.

I'm glad I still have my discs and haven't converted. Frankly, The bar owners will be so confused, they will only hire guys with discs because they won't want to believe "your discs are at home" or you "own a disc for everything on your system." After all, what do they care if having a hard drive is more convenient for you? They just want to stay out of trouble. There's no easy answer here.

The link to the docket was posted a few posts up. Yes it is very true.

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If the bars are paying the publishing fees to begin with, then chances are slim that the publishers would get involved with a 1:1 computer user.

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Fair use provisions do not seem to apply for commercial use. When you shift the format in a commercial setting, all the rules change. Doesn't matter is the bar pays their ASCAP/BMI License or not.

It's my understanding that you would need to go to the music publisher for each and every song to get permission... and if you did that, they may or may not charge you a fee. Who's going to do that?

I've read this somewhere...I need to find the document. I think I read this at the Ascap or BMI website when I was considering going digital, then changed my mind.

ASCAP/BMI are not copyright holders, they could care less where the music is being played from, they care if the royalties for the music being played are being paid. In which if the bars are not paying those fees, then they might dig a little more into the source of the music.
I have seen cases where ascap has filed suit on bars for illegal music, however it's always been on bars that have not paid their fees to begin with. Haven't seen one case to date that has been against a bar with a kj running 1:1 on computer with the bar paying their fees. If someone knows of one, please post.

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The only ones who have the authority to question copyright infractions are federal agents such as the FBI. They do not go into a bust without first spending thousands of dollars in preliminary investigations which provides proof. If somebody walked up to my host and started questioning him I would immediately call the cops They do not have the authority to question him.

In civil suits such as the Bull & Bear lawsuit in New York the court only awarded moneys lost which was less than $1000. A highly publicised case would only do a detrimental damage to those trying to sell karaoke to bar owners. Sony with their association with RIIAA set their public relations back about 10 years,

The entertainment industry spends the most in lobbying congress and the ratio is is about 3 to one over the drug industry and pttroleum. Why anybody wants to cheer them on is totally beyond me. They are crooks and Jimmy Hoffa would be proud of them before he go shot in the back seat of his sedan.

Soundchoice does not make the laws nor do they have any business posting legalities concening copyrights in public or on the internet. This is a matter of District Courts which by the way in recent cases tend to favor John Q or consumers. Bonifide legal firms do not post legal terms on the internet and the only ones who do are posting for their own profits. Soundchoices posting and interpretation of copyright laws is the most biased and outright lies I have ever read. I do not like Soundchoice or their threats. I would suggest they hire a Walmart greeter to teach them PR and honesty. You say they are after the private sector. I wondered about their massive TV ad campagin and their CD'S in Wallies. What a joke!!!

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Just to clarify, Karyoker, are you FOR pirates or just against the govt./lawyers/big business getting too intrusive? Do you believe all music and interpretations of music should be in the public domain for anyone to make a profit off of as they see fit or do you think a person or company has a right to compensation for their work? I have a feeling you just don't like overbearing authority but it is sort of confusing as you seem to be saying it's ok for the little guy to be a crook but not the big guys.

Only the Federal government can enforce Federal law? I doubt that very much. I can't see a member of NYPD or LAPD or any other law enforcement agency turn a blind eye to any law being broken. The only thing is the accused would be charged in Federal Court and not Municipal or State Court.

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Here we go again.....(fun this isn't it?)

So from USKaraokeAlliance website they say that any song without manufacturer info at the front is likely copied. Does that mean that Tricerasoft's Karaoke Monthly songs are not legal? Their Sunfly, Zoom etc show label info, also they get them on the day they are released. I have contacted tricerasoft directly and they exlplained they have licenses with each manu they sell as well as MCPS fees. Still not sure how they can have a license with a defunct company (THM, Music Maestro).

Can Sound Choice sue for using a copied THM track anyway - I figure they can only sue for copied SC tracks, each manu. would be the same otherwise it would be like Goodyear tires suing someone for selling fake Bridgestone tires.

>20000 songs = pirate? I've been buying discs for 4 years and have around 11000 unique songs. So they may be right on this one but I will be >20000 in a few years.

Fair use doesn't apply to commercial? Not been tested in court for this situation. Again, as long as you are one to one the manus. can't prove any financial loss. Jury should side with KJ in this case. Fair use is not exclusively personal use at can apply in select commercial instances, perhaps KJ is one of those?

BTW this one to one is killing me running two shows on the same night! I pretty much chainsawed my library in half to stay legal on that night and then combine the rigs for my single show nights. I'm slowly adding the songs back in across the two rigs to get two almost similar song selections (often with different manus.) but it is a killer. Hassle from my other host and singers about why not all of their song history is available, always saying 'no-one is going to come in and check'. Looks like we may finally have a case to redeem my staying legal!

Jonn

I do not like it when 1% of the musicians demand 99% of the profits and my singers can not even sing witthout they still have their hand out demanding part of the crumbs back. We supply an honest affordable entertainment yet me must buy 14 songs in addition to the ones we use. We are considered second class and must bear the burden for the fat cats.

I have sang all over the world for the pure pleasure that it gave to others. I have a talent. I never charged for it or prostituted it for gross amounts out of greed. When I sing a song and it sets a soul free then that song belongs to nobody it is let loose in the winds and enjoyed by all. I give it freely and should not have to pay anyone to express myself in private or public.

I am tired of being considered second class and living off of crumbs which as the years go by become less and less and the greedy ones are demanding more and more. They are leeches and dont give a damn whether you have food on your table or not. Instead of working with us and coming up with viable solutions they hide in the bushes and threaten us with lawsuits.

Am I for pirates? No but I lived in times when bootleggers and still runners supplied services when laws were passed and the fat cats became greedy.It was not us who destroyed their industry it was their poor marketing tecniques and short comings. Provide downloads for gawds sake!! Apple did it at a buck a shot and still making millions. A billion dollar market as yet untapped and those dastardly pirates ruined it and destroyed the market. Yea Sure....I bought cd's with social security money and sacrificed for the crumbs I get. I for one is tired of making all the sacrifices and having to go to the food bank for food.

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Okay since we are on the subject. How about the artists that pull their copyright after the discs are made and sold. I remember the dicussion about Garth Brooks pulling his. One day it is legal to use his songs the next it's not even though I've paid for the disc? I'm not sure how that works.

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