Karaoke Forums

This past weekend I had to share the KARAOKE time with a 4 piece band.
Seems the drummer was friends of the manager and got a "favor" to play a few sets ( 1st time out as a group although they were all seasoned muscians)
The band consisted of a BASS player, Lead and Rythm Guitars and a drummer who used an electric type drum kit ..DRUMS SOUNDED AWESOME. Pretty much played what I would call CLASSIC R&R . They all had their own amps and the vocals went thru the PA ( I couldn't really tell what PA --I did note EV speakers ) I started the Karaoke at 4pm on the outside Patio and all was GREAT for the 1st hour until the Band started at 5pm ( I then did Karaoke on the breaks between sets) . And here goes..... The band was freakin LOUD ..not too loud ! BUt loud and completly filled the outside patio and then some. Is it right to want my system to be BAND LOUD for Karaoke ??? Currently I only have 1 - 15" speaker on the patio and the other under the deck by the bar area. I'm running a Main/Monitor set up - so I can control the volume under the deck by the bar so people can talk.

#1 I know running only 350watts to each 15" speaker is not enough POWER to get BAND LOUD ....but should Karaoke be BAND LOUD? Surprisingly many of the singers complimented the KARAOKE sound versus the bands volume ? This weekend I'm thinking about running the 2 15" speakers (spread out) on the patio chained together on 1 side of the amp and a 12" monitor under the deck for the bar area.

Will adding another 15" speaker to the patio double the volume/coverage?

Just thinking out loud ...

I have the philosophy that karaoke IS LIVE MUSIC, and I run it at live music volumes. Now, your average karaoke bar does not do this, because it seems like most are family establishments and the type of people who frequent the shows want to be able to talk and do other things OVER the music.

Basically, I've found your AVERAGE karaoke singer wants to ignore karaoke unless it is their turn or someone in their party's turn. Those same people that complain about the volume on other people's turns will ask you to turn them up!!

Come to my bar, however, and KARAOKE is what is going on!! Just like a live band, you can't be in the front row and discuss politics with your mother. My show is loud, live music, and everyone's turn is their chance to be THE STAR of the entire bar!!

Now, this fact, along with the fact that I end up with a 20-25 person rotation every night, means that your typical karaoke singer thinks my show sucks. They think it is TOO loud, the rotations are too long, and the singers suck. I'd say these things are probably true. But my job is to fill the seats, and I do that as good as anyone in my town of about a million people.

But what it leaves me with is a RAW, crazy, FUNNNNNN show that the 21-30 crowd loves, and that actually brings in more non-karaoke singers than karaoke singers because they enjoy the atmosphere of the whole thing and the high energy. 150-200 people every Saturday night can't be wrong.

So what I'm saying is if your singers are young and sing modern music, CRANK IT UP!! However, if you rely on ANY of a typical karaoke show's regulars singing older country and Sinatra standards, you probably should leave the volume down so no hearing aids explode.

If it's too loud, you're too old.....at least for my show!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Whoops sorry double post.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

The bar I work in is small. Bands tend to be to loud for the bar. It turns a lot of people off when they play inside. I'll never understand why they think they should mic the drums in such a small venue.

The owner in the past yr hasn't had a single band inside. He relies on karaoke only inside now. The beer garden outside is perfect for bands. There is plenty of room and they can be as loud as they want.

For me being as loud as a band is not smart. People always complained that they don't go see the bands when they play inside because they are to loud, not because they're bad. Obviously if bands are to loud for the small venue I need to keep karaoke at a softer volume.

My crowd is mixed in ages. It isn't a college age group only. I think I do well with volume, but it is a constant worry not to be to loud or to soft for that matter.

I may turn it up for a particular song or 2. It depends on the song, but for over all volume I am definitely not as loud as a band. This is totally because of the crowd I have and size of venue.

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

My experience with bands, especially small ones with on-stage amps and no audio engineer, are just too damn loud. Your PA should be loud enough to fill the space your playing such that everyone in that space can hear all of the instruments, vocals, etc. That does take volume. However, small time bands have this habit of each guy just keeps turning up his amp to hear it over the other and before you know it, it's deafening. A good example of this was a charity benefit I worked last year where they had a bunch of bands on a large festival stage with seating for 600 a Martin line array system for PA. One band came up and the lead guitarist had a Fender Deville amplifier on stage. The thing was so damn loud that when the audio engineer took the guitar completely out of the mix (fader all the way down) you couldn't tell the difference. His guitar amp was overpowering the PA, now that's just dumb.

So anyway, my point is your Karaoke rig should be just a like any other PA in a live sound situation. Loud enough to fill the space that your listeners are in sufficiently that they can hear everything in the mix without having to strain or find just the right listening point. Loud can be good, however it can also be very bad. Remember you are dealing with equipment that is capable of causing irreparable hearing damage, so your goal shouldn't be to compete with someone else's volume. It should be to find the correct volume for the space.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Letitrip - well said ! I had to laugh a bit because when I was in a band that is exactly what would happen. The bass player always turned his amp up to loud which in turn would make the guitar players turn up their amps. Next thing you knew there were arguments and sound battles. Egos get involved thinking one instrument is more important, so it should be louder. Next thing you know it was to loud over all and me as the singer was lost in the mix.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

What type of INCREASE can I expect by adding another 15" speaker to the PATIO ?
I plan to have 1 15" on each side of the patio. I'm "guessing" no real VOLUME increase since the same power is now spread thru 2 speakers ? but I should have better COVERAGE ?? Make sense?

Babs, I had the same experience. Stage gear about deafened me if I didn't have my little twisty ear plugs in.

There is also the need to differentiate a little here - GREAT sound sounds wonderful when it's loud, even when it is accidentally TOO loud. As long as the system isn't being pushed beyond its limits, with care I will tend to run on the loud side; hubby doesn't but that could be a fucntion of his hearing loss (too many years of standing in front of stage gear that is TOO LOUD). But our systems (both big and medium sized) are just incredibly clear so it often doesn't SOUND as loud as it is. There is nothing worse, in my mind and my ears, than a system that is being pushed beyond its capabilities - you can tell they're red lining but pay no attention.

The other thing that makes a poor system sound horrible when it is pushing the limits of too loud is the eq - too much high in the mix will really cause pain to the listeners even when it isn't too loud. I heard recently from someone at one of our regular venues that a different karaoke person insisted on running everything on the 'high' side and people were leaving because it was actually painful. Sad thing is, it was mentioned to the host who proceeded to claim, "that's the way I always run it." No sound knowledge apparently. Nothing like running off customers.

So GOOD loud is good...not enough to harm hearing but to feel that 'surround sound' kind of feel. Poor sound is never good, let alone when it is run on the loud side.

I too have been sandwiched in between bands both outside and inside. Instead of increasing watts I distribute the sound over a larger area by daisy chaining powered speakers. When I get out of the car and several yards away from the stage I like a PA that sounds like they are right next to you and clear, not distorted or loud. I can set up a sound system where it has equal volume from one end to the other. Also I have pockets of reduced volume for those who desire it.

Woodstock 69 had 3500 Watts. Woodstock 99 had over a million.

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This is an extremely important point. I didn't want to get into all these complexities but yes a poorly EQ'ed system or one that is producing a lot of Harmonic Distortion (i.e. being pushed to its limits) will sound louder and more painful. It's actually the mid to mid-high section that is most painful. Generally 1.6k to about 6k is where things stand out and start hurting ears. Many female vocalists are particularly harsh around the 2K area, so I often will cut a little there (using the sweepable mid on the channel strip). Of course it is this same mid to mid-high area that produces much of the clarity you need, so its a balancing act to find the right amount to keep things from being muddy without over doing it and offending people's ears.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

jamkaraoke, sounds like your system sounds great, but you just want to be as loud as the band. If you feel you are missing a littls sound, a monitor will probably be just what you need to finish your sound. A powered sub will also be a great way to reinforce your sound.

As for the volume, I am pretty much the same as TopherM. I play it loud. Loud and clear, not rediculous loud, but loud. My singers like it that way, so that's how I do it. On the occassions I have had a substitute, I got complaints it wasn't loud enough. If you are sitting in the front row, talking is difficult. In the middle and back you can talk easily enough.

Felix the KJ

I guess it could depend on your average age of the audience. Mine are typically in their 20's-30's so we run volume levels typical of that of a bar band - plenty of power so the loudness is very clean rather than trying to push an underpowered amp up which will lead to harshness in the upper frequencies & less bass response.
If I were doing a show that the average age group was 40 & above, I would run more conservative levels - although I would still have the power on reserve as the sound will still be better at regular volume than a smaller amp at the same volume. Just because it's a small room, doesn't mean the amp & speakers have to be less.

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Well here's my take on karaoke volume, and I would say disregard this advice at your own peril.

I play at multiple venues, several of which have other KJs during the week. One of them is KNOWN for how loud he plays his music. Some like it, many do not.

When I play, one of the first things I hear is, "Wow, your music sounds great and I don't have to scream to talk to someone!"

Karaoke is a SOCIAL experience, significantly different that a LIVE BAND because the audience members are also active participates in the show. There may be all kinds of different things being discussed during a singer's performance, but much of the discussion is about a singer's performance!

I let the crowd dictate the volume, with the basic rule that I should be able to talk without screaming at the bar. This can change during the night as the crowd gets larger and the "crowd noise" begins to overpower the music.... then I gradually increase the volume to compensate.

I for one find blaring music uncomfortable, and tiring. I assume my people feel the same. So far, this has proven to be correct, regardless of the general age of the people there.

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I personally like it to have that it cranked. If its too loud you're too old!!!!!!!!!!
If you want to talk and have lots of conversation then going to a karaoke bar seems like a dumb choice on the patrons part.
I am the person that sound guys usually figure out is the loud one in the band. I have my guitar in the monitors cranked and my amp cabs turned down. I agree if its a young crowd then crank it up.

I agree some bands do not know how to make a good mix, but some do. And those that do have the music completely fill the room. But what makes a good sounding band, is the power of the music and not the volume. You can turn up thin sounding music all you want and all you will have is loud. Just having a loud system won’t give you that band sound that you’re looking for.

Every room will have its own limit what you should do. I do some small and private shows and that’s totally different from my main gig. But every show I mix from the bottom up. I believe if I can’t feel the music, I rather not play.

My main gig I just push the limits of my old people when I start but the crowd gets younger as the night goes, before the end of the night yeah I’m band loud. I want my singer feel like they had a near band experience and have my dancer feel the beat. But I wouldn’t copy bands, they don’t draw a crowd like karaoke at least around here.

Is that BAND LOUD or KARAOKE LOUD?



I agree with karaoke koyote, that it is a social setting. If you're there in groups you want to be able to talk with your friends or talk to a singer that just finished. Maybe discuss what song you're doing next as a duo or something. It definitely should be loud talking though. As long as the singer isn't drowned out by the music, kick it up a bit. It's all pretty good around Chicagoland where it's not overpowering BAND LOUD.