Karaoke Forums

Do you want to stay in business? Do you want people buying your monthly subscription discs?

Right now I can legally download individual tracks from Sunfly, Zoom, SBI before they ever made it to a disc. They release them as downloads the same day or before they get sent to be pressed into CDs.

Now, PHM claim they can't sell tracks individually and I wouldn't be surprised if CB and SC have similar restrictions. Okay, if that's the way it is how about this...for those of us that subscribe to their discs, give us a download link that allows us to get the tracks whilst waiting for the physical edition. The restriction being that we cannot use both the download and the disc at the same time, the download is more of an 'advance format shift' of the disc we are waiting for.

You can even have the tracks uniquely identified to each subscriber if you want (like movie studios do with movie prints - ever seen those random brown dot patterns in one frame?) to help work out where the piracy is happening. Maybe it would mean that legal hosts would get all the tracks a month before the pirates, giving us more of an edge!

I dunno, spit balling here, I'm not particularly in favor of DRM or other tracking, but maybe this idea could help both the manus and legal kjs gain an edge.

Jonn

The first one that offers downloads of original bands without vocals will flourish and take over this industry. It is written on the wall...They will sell downloads for $1 and those venues with WIFI will download. I would like to have the profits for one weekend

Is their paranoia and total lack of knowledge of technology and marketing techniques that far off of base? Give me a break...Come to one of my shows I will tell you how to sell. Do not threaten me with lawsuits. I made you you @#$%^^%#$

I have never invested or patronised a company that distrusted me, insulted me, or questioned my ethics or professionalism. I am in Greeley Colorado Do you want my cell number? Come get me.... I AM TIRED OF THIS BS. I run an honest business DO YOU? Stuff it in your ear... And your shorts

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Of course, if we all go out of business we'll be standing at intersections like this....

[schild=11 fontcolor=000000 shadowcolor=C0C0C0 shieldshadow=1]Will sing for food[/schild]

I totally agree and think they can sell $2 or maybe even $3 a track. (I pay $3 now from karaoke-version and even more if I have to use Selectatrack) Now if they go all the way and give us them with and without vocals we'll be set for filler music with lyrics that nurtures the embryonic singing bug into a Karaoke King or Queen.

Of course what could work would be the studios / artists coming to me and saying 'please do are karaoke lyrics for us'. I did the whole Weird Al 'Straight Outta Lynwood' album for educational purposes only. The crowd likes Canadian Idiot, Polkarama and the unreleased 'You're Pitiful'. (Shame James Blunt is being such a "James Blunt" by not giving permission.)

- Jonn

The first one that offers downloads of original bands without vocals will flourish and take over this industry. It is written on the wall...They will sell downloads for $1 and those venues with WIFI will download. I would like to have the profits for one weekend

Is their paranoia and total lack of knowledge of technology and marketing techniques that far off of base? Give me a break...Come to one of my shows I will tell you how to sell. Do not threaten me with lawsuits. I made you you @#$%^^%#$

I have never invested or patronised a company that distrusted me, insulted me, or questioned my ethics or professionalism. I am in Greeley Colorado Do you want my cell number? Come get me.... I AM TIRED OF THIS BS. I run an honest business DO YOU? Stuff it in your ear... And your shorts Very Happy

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Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

You know what just occurred to me?
The idea of offering instant downloads for karaoke hosts was thought of a very long time ago.
You know who thought of it?
The folks over at the 7 Bamboo who wrote the program autoKDJ!
Toqer et al decided to give away the program for free because their thought was to make money from the manufacturers who offered their songs for sale within the program.
Currently, only Tricerasoft is offered through autoKDJ.
Why?
Because apparently the "Big guns" told them to go to H E double hockey sticks. Not sure what their reasoning was, but obviously it was completely wrong!
I wonder if that attitude will now change.
I, for one, would be more than happy to see instant downloads available at shows.
Regular Dj's have had that ability for several years now. Why not karaoke?
It IS the way of the future, as the far-sighted guys over at the 7 Bamboo have shown.
I would love to get into their heads right now to know what they see as coming next!

I already download as needed on my show. I'm incorporating the ability to do it seamlessly in my hosting program, so much so that my touchscreen songbook will first search my database, then tricerasoft, karaokechannel, sbi, karaoke version, selectatrack. It will be just like touch tunes jukeboxes, perhaps even hinting that a $1 tip will get them the song tonight vs waiting a week!

Eventually I'll have a 50,000 song library available with only 10,000 songs on my hard drive. As soon as someone wants the song, I'll download it. I can compete with the pirates, stay legal and be selective on my song purchases!

Unfortunately not all places have wifi or reliable wifi. It still takes way too long to download a song over EDGE on my tethered phone.

The only thing that stops me downloading more each night is the speed it takes to query multiple sites to find the best value version. Once I've taken that out of the equation it'll be great!

Jonn

The problem is, and I will use the Canadian Manufacturer, Karaokemaker, as an example, they cannot, even if they want to, allow unlimited downloads. Neil, the owner stated that they have to get the licence to do the song and in that licence is the number of discs they can sell. For example, their Trooper disc, they negotiated x number of discs, for y amount of cash. Once they get to that number, if they want to do more of the same disc they have to renegotite the licence to do so. In this example the disc sold out fairly quick. When they went to renegotiate to produce more of the SAME disc, the licence ballooned up 3-5 times. Even the band couldn't get an extra disc made for their members (and they loved the quality of the disc).

I would surmise the same thing applies to American manufacturers also. So to me the problem isn't necessarily the manufacturers but those who approve the licences.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

exactly.

Why have the only ones to offer legal downloads been the Foreign manufactuers... different licensing restrictions!

This isn't a new concept guys. Zoom I think was the first karaoke manu to offer it. YEARS ago!

Okay, if they are only licensed to make 1000 discs, modify that license to include 1000 discs with 1000 advance downloads. One they sell out of the disc they can't sell the DL (since it was only ever included for free with the disc).

This only works for 'direct from the manufacturer' sales or for sales exclusively through an approved partner. If the disc includes a license key to download the tracks they can advance us the key whilst making / shipping the disc. The same key would be provided with the disc that bought it later on, allowing an authorized (trackable if needed) digital copy. I mean you get digital copy on DVD and BluRay now, this is just an extension of that kind of thinking to get the download in advance...like amazon unbox let me watch Batman online after I'd bought the disc.

Jonn

Like everything else it comes down to GREED $$$$$$$$$$

They are not happy making a LITTLE PROFIT they get greedy and raise the prices and costs of licenses discs and downloads until they make NO MONEY becauce either it does not pay to produce make and or buy their product. This goes for the artists, record co. publishers and manus....all of them

Then they sit back and cry that people are PIRATING their products
It's the same story thru out history with every product out their.
Remember when a VHS movie cost $60 to buy ..everyone was copying them
Now you can buy a movie for $12.95. just a dumb scenario I know
but you get the picture

CORPORATE GREED

You're not getting it, or we've not explained it clearly... it's not a matter of HOW MANY tracks are made, it's the general licensing agreement. The American copyright holders, covered under American copyright law, are not legally allowing the download for karaoke format... period!

diafel,

Are you referring to the same "7 Bamboo" people who are on the KIAA Advisory Board?

http://www.thekiaa.org/about-kiaa/advisory-board.html

Discs, discs, discs.... argh!

Stop negotiating by Discs! Discs are the past. Negotiate by TRACK! This way you are only paying for the tracks people want and not the ones that don't sell! This is why they are in trouble... they refuse to rethink their business distribution model.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

It doesn't matter if it is disc, vinyl, audio tape, film or download. The key is the number of copies allowed to be provided according to the licence.

Exactly how much should they be charging for a track? It seems regular music is in the $1.00 area. Please remember most of these are from the larger labels who deal in vast quantity as opposed to karaoke labels who, in comparison, are quite small.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Yes. Why do you ask?
If you're trying to imply something, then don't bother. What organizations he chooses to join is nobody's business but his, and I would never presume to tell him what to do.
I personally would never join the KIAA because of the many reasons already gone over on this forum ad nauseum.
Just looked further into their site and I found this little tidbit from their FAQ:


Yet another reason for me NOT to join. No way am I going to pay for another membership for a part time fill in host.

Just what, exactly do I get for being a member?
The privilege of having my valuable time wasted by having someone else "audit" my library (assuming that it's even feasible to do) (when I already KNOW it's legit. I don't need someone else telling me it is), the wonderful obligation of turning in "suspected" pirates (sorry, but I will NEVER do so without absolute PROOF), and the "peace of mind" knowing that I'm legit (I ALREADY KNOW IT!).
All this for the bargain price of $50 per year ($100 if you count in my fill in host)!
Well, you know what?
I can save time and money by NOT joining. I already have the peace of mind knowing that I'm legit and that I am nobody's spy, and not obligated to go around making accusations against others without PROOF.
Plus, I save myself a ton of time by not having to wait while someone goes through my library only to tell me what I already know.
I can also keep the $50 - $100 in my pocket to spend on more discs!

I was specifically referring to the comments timberlea made about a Canadian manu whose license was for a x number of discs for $y. I appreciate (and get it )the US copyright holders and laws are different. The fact is they could negotiate new licensing models if they wanted. Limited production runs, differential pricing points, whatever they want.

I like the idea of the per-track rather than per-disc too, but I dont' know every song out there and trust manus to a certain extent to put out what should be popular. (I buy the Now Compilations from the UK for that very reason). I know some singers will never ask for a song but if they see it in a book they'll try it, that's one of the reasons I buy discs first and downloads second. Now sometimes the manus get it completely wrong and I get a disc of shy## but that's the gamble.

Jonn

I don't claim to know anything about the karaoke recording/distribution business, but what the hell, it hasn't stopped anybody else.

I would guess that part of the reason there is resistance to releasing songs by track is that the vast majority of tracks don't sell very well. If you ask karaoke companies what songs there is most demand for, I would bet they'd tell you songs like "Love Shack," "Summer Nights," and all the other songs which generally produce groans from karaoke people because they're so common that they get irritating after awhile.

Songs that are harder to find--in other words, the ones that make a show more interesting--are generally harder to find because there is less demand for them. But you can still make a profit marketing those songs if you can package them with popular standbys. A KJ might not need a disc with the 47th different version of "Summer Nights," but he still might buy it if the same disc included a rare Frank Zappa classic available nowhere else.

But if you make songs available ala carte, you'll sell plenty of "Summer Nights" but almost no Frank Zappa. And if you're not going to sell much Zappa, it doesn't make much sense to pay to have it produced. So while in the short term having songs available by track would help the consumer, in the long run it would mean fewer songs being made available because they aren't profitable.

Or maybe it doesn't have anything to do with it. The internet is great for uninformed speculation.

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Reward: nine yen in drawer.

I had first seen the "7 Bamboo" name on the KIAA website & just wanted to confirm they were the same people you were talking about since I wasn't sure. There is no need to think I am implying anything or for you to be so defensive. I asked a simple question expecting a simple answer.

If you are so defiant on the KIAA, why don't you start another thread on the subject instead of rambling on about it everytime they are mentioned in other threads?

Just a thought....

Now there is something to hang your hat on!

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Music speaks to the heart in ways words cannot express.