Karaoke Forums

Wow my brain can't keep up on all the points here on which I'd like to comment.

The one that is singing loudest in my brain is this, and I paraphase: "Who is going to hire all these people who are inked?" Just consider for a moment that as this population ages, and our parents (70s-80s) are dropping out of the workforce (if they're lucky), a different group of people with different ideas and certainly more liberal and forward thinking ideas are taking the helm.

Acknowledging that for a moment, if you've ever seen one of those e-mails that floats around occasionally about what a kid born in the '80s knows compared to one born on the '50s (I know this decade well), you'll realize that change is so 100% inevitable. If you are unwilling to accept this change and dwell on ancient prejudices you will be left behind in the dust. As much as we expect the youngsters to change, it is our responsibility to also grasp change and move forward.

So lest you think the all ink represents doom. I have two beautiful pieces of ink, both custom designed. They are my permanent jewelry - one is a claddaugh (a celtic symbol representing faith and love, among other things) and where the hands would usually be holding the crowd, I have wings; the other is a tiger lily, bright orange, and on the very tip of one petal is a wood nymph, reaching up and holding a glittering star. Use your imagination about these pieces and venture a guess as to the type of person I am based on those pieces. PS: I am a grandmother of two very intellectually advanced young children, 3 and 5, who love to talk about my tattoos. We've had wonderful discussions about loyalty and love, and singing and performing. I won't belabor this further, you get the point, right?

I have seen bodies covered with less than desirable messages that will cause them grief at some point, but others not so much. Many are just as firm in their convictions as you are, Angel, and stand firmly by their choices. One particular young man I am well acquainted with, who is very much like a son to me, has ink that I do not really care for and question his motive; however, the kid always has a job, he does not use drugs, he does not smoke, he does not shoot up. He has a wife and a young child who will probably inherit his father's IQ and be one of the smartest kids ever. As you so deftly pointed out, all generalizations are false.

There are many contributing factors to the doomsday forecasting you make but ink and rap music share a very, very small role in that. When Cosby talks to young blacks he often speaks often of paternal responsibility, and if you look at the statistics of young, single black mothers, those statistics are of much more concern to me than ink or rap music. So, let's talk birth control or abstinence or whatever method you choose.

If the rap that leads to the dark side was magically removed from the airwaves today I would be happy. It is hard enough to bring children up with a sense of honesty, dedication, a positive work ethic, responsibility for their actions, and respect for others. I am not hearing those attributes stressed in much of the 'dark' rap and feel sorry for the youth who don't have someone around them countering the concepts of domestic violence, etc. I can't change that but I also don't listen to it longer than it takes me to determine that I don't need to hear what they're singing.

I am not going to make judgments about you, Angel. I have friends who have diversely different beliefs than I on many levels. We agree to disagree and have long moved past the point of trying to "convince" the other that we're right or they're wrong. Nothing gets resolved for sure and it leaves us a lot of time to talk about things about which we do share common ground.

PS: GO LONNIE GO! Good on ya for the ink.

All I can say is: Great post Karen! Thanks.

Nice post, Karen.

One thing I would argue, however is I do think art and music can influence people. The choice to be influenced toward good or bad is the responsibility of the individual but think how you may have been inspired by a book or a song. The whole 60s/Beatles/Folk/Protest music thing was a big influence--maybe these songs were just capturing and expressing what people were already feeling rather than changing minds but how many of us at the very least started garage bands and are still associated with music because of those times? There must be a reason some governments are afraid of some art/music/literature and ban them (I am not in favor of that--just using it as an example).

I don't like rap music that advocates violence and I hate the way some of if talks about women. But I also have hated the Rolling Stone's "Under My Thumb" for decades for the same reason and I could name some Nickelback that is not too encouraging so there does seem to be a hint of racism or fear when people flat out say they hate rap for those reasons. In fact even the Beatles had "I'd rather see you dead little girl than to be with another man" and "when you talk about detstruction, you can count me out--or in." That doesn't make it right--just puts a bit of perspective on it.

As far as style, it's not the thing that I personally like to hear over and over but now many mainstream songs include segments of it so it is now a part of society in general. Plus--remember Robert Preston was one of the first rappers in the Music Man with "You've Got Trouble." It's all relative.

Tatoos remain to me "A permanent reminder of a temporary feeling" to quote Jimmy Buffett who probably borrowed it from someone else. But they are now too mainstream for people to make judgements about those who have them. Where I work I think only 3 of us don't have tatoos (now you are an individualistic rebel if you don't get one, I guess) and that includes the veterinarians. Some of our front desk people have nose piercings. The clients don't get offended because in our area they have them too. It is just one of those things that has gone from shocking to not even noticed anymore.

As for karaoke, judge what to play by your venue and go where you feel comfortable.

I thought long and hard about whether to get my tats and then what to get. There was no temporary feeling for me involved in it at all. Granted there are a lot of people who do that - on a dare, or some stupid decision made late at night after a lot of imbibing. I feel badly for them because that IS a dumb thing to do, and often the results are less than what they should be.

But that's like a lot of dumb decisions people make - It is the 10 seconds that change your life. And that applies to a lot of things, not just tattoos.

10 seconds that *permanently* changes your life has become a lot more common thing since tattoos came into vogue. It isn't that common otherwise.

Exceptional people set the example for the not-so-exceptional. That is why I decry the athletes glorifying tattoos. For the majority of people, they are just plain stupid. (All in my opinion, of course.) Most people are displaying pretty humdrum messages, and while when they are 20 they may think they capture their essence that is ridiculous. A lot of people come out thinking they really matter and can change the world at 22. No, in point of fact people usually start changing the world after they have several years of real-world experience under their belt. A tattoo made at 40 years old makes a lot more sense to me -- at least you have a chance to know what you are really about. If you make that determination at 20, you may have cast your lot in the wrong area. And it tends to perpetuate the stereotype, too.

Get a high-neck tattoo at 20 and then want to become a businessman at 35? Oops. Gonna be awful hard. Can it be done? Oh yeah, I am sure. But you better be pretty good -- there are gonna be people discounting you whether you like it or not.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I guess the only thing else that I can add is that the music is the RESULT of someone's thoughts, or experiences, not the other way around, (unless the person is unbalanced). Nobody is going around doing what their doing because of the music they're listening to, whether it's rap or something else. I think it was Charles Manson that tried to use that argument, that the Beatles' Helter Skelter was what caused him and his cohorts to be lunatics, look how far it got him in court. People write lyrics to songs, some good, some bad. Listen to what is YOUR preference, as long as you don't try to impose your likes or dislikes on anyone else. I personally don't have any titles in my songbooks that have explicit lyrics (swearing) in them, so they can't be sung at my show, if the customers don't like that, they will choose another show. I guess that's their perogative.

Rosario

Again maybe some of you are still hiding under the bed.

What is the firs thing the inner city youth put in their cars? Think about it. They spend more on the stereo system than the car costs. Why do they do it? Music is everything to them. They eat sleep and breath the rap music. When they don't have fathers and mothers as positive role models to look up to and take resposibilty...they pick gangsta rappers. They listen to it day and night. They want to be just like them. The drugs, the money, the babes, the cars, the bling and the cribs.

Reality check here. Wake up people. I just didn't pull this out of thin air. No father figures to lean on. Most gansta rappers have become the FATHER figures to the fatherless kids. Who do you want to be when you grow up? I wanna be like (pick one.) Why have so many rappers been gunned down. They live the life they sing about. Again get out from under the bed and read the papers and watch some TV news. It happens everyday.

If you still believe that the music they are being brainwashed by doesn't effect someone with no other options in life we are all doomed. You can not listen to anything day and night and not become effected by what you hear. Why do we get bombarded with the same commercials on TV minute after minute. They want yopu to do what they are telling you. Power of suggestion over your subconscious mind. These kids are being brainwashed into the gangsta life. Like it or not. They want to be just like them. It gives them their only hope for some type of a future. Right or wrong.

I highly doubt that anyone with a tattoo or a piercing is going to think they made a bad decision. Just like someone that committed suicide. They thought that was right too. Too late to change your mind after the fact. I see people in the bars all night long showing off their ink and belly things and their fake boobs. Like a badge of honor. I see many tattoos that can't be covered with any type of clothing other than a complete body bag.

Stereotypes and prejudices exist and always will. Certain things bring to mind bad experiences or memories. You will be treated differently than most people. I didn't start it and i can't end it. It could cause you to be discriminated against.

Hmm so because the parents aren't responsible enough to look after their kids, then we should now blame the rappers et al that they choose to look up to?
Get real!
How about doing what should be done and put the blame where it belongs - squarely on the shoulders of the PARENTS?
Why not make the PARENTS responsible for their kids?? Now there's a unique thought!
If you raise a child correctly and teach him right from wrong, then the whole thing becomes a non-issue.
You've missed the point, yet you've nailed it on the head. Seems to me you can't see the forest for the trees.
Personally, I can't stand the negativity of rap, but I'm not about to blame it for what's going on out there.
I blame the people that fancy themselves as parents yet have no clue where their kids are or what they're doing because they're too concerned with themselves to bother to find out.

Perhaps there is one question that needs to become a more integral part of many people's thought processes, particularly younger people.

And that question is WHY (meaning what benefit do I derive from doing so and/or what end do I hope to accomplish) by undertaking a particular action?

I make good use of a nose, two eyes, ears, arms, legs, spleen. Guess that's why I was born with them. And I didn't have to pay a dime for any of them. Now WHY do I need a tattoo, piercing, facelift, chin tuck, boob job?

WHY are some people saying the music I love is vulgar. Well, what end do I accomplish or what benefit do I derive by listening to or singing lyrics about "f...king her gently".

There are those who still believe that modesty is an IMPORTANT virtue and that young ladies, for example, who discuss and display their sexuality for the enjoyment of the boys reflects a lack of self esteem and self-respect.

So why not ask WHY you are immodest and act slutty or look slutty. ASK WHY? Particularly if you are a woman ask yourself WHY. Some guys find MODESTY intriguing, if for no other reason than the fact that MYSTERY is one of the ingredients that fuel the "fires" of romance!

Ask why you think that people shouldn't be offended by VULAGARITIES and should accept and deal with them when frequenting a bar. Of course, if nothing is vulgar to you than ask yourself WHY that is the case?

I was wondering if I was the only one who thought that!

And now, for a public service announcement.

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Dave's not here.

Moonrider, thanks for adding a little humor to all the drama in this thread.

I've been reading it, but haven't posted, because I'm speechless. And I am now more intelligent for having read it. I now can see things so clearly. I obviously do drugs or I'm some kind of gangster, because I have a tattoo and a nose ring and a belly ring. I'm not really sure now if there's anything I can do to avoid fire and brimstone when I die. And I guess my husband is going to be there too, since he likes to listen to occasional gangsta rap (although I must agree that it rarely promotes ideals that are credible at all, and I don't want my children to find joy in it). I might want to watch him so that I can be on top of things when he starts shooting up, beating me, and conducting drive-bys. And I'm going to have to stop talking to all my friends that are inked up too...It's going to be a whole life-style change for me. You guys should really listen. An angel has spoken.

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It's called Karaoke Therapy...

This argument sort of reminds me of an anti-drug commercial. It showed an inner city ghetto with the the tag line of half the drugs being used is in the city. Then the question "Where is the other half?", then they show a pastoral rural area.

I was a police officer for many years, and a PI for many years after. I have seen the sterotypical criminal gangbanger and even many more tattooed and pierced great people. It's like saying all molesters are ugly old guys wearing trenchcoats. riminals come in all sizes, colours, gender, and musical tastes. The one thing I have learned is never judge someone by what they wear or sport or listen to, look at their deeds and acts.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Now im waiting for some to disagree about what color of underwear a person must have on to sing..well may sound silly but .....

Your head is buried the deapest in the sand. You're just kidding right? Nobody could be that out of touch with what's going on. Start at one end of a ghetto block and start counting the actual fathers present with the kids. Then see how many mothers you can find. Now count the drug dealers and crack heads. Who do you think will top the list? Who will be MIA?

You are correct that parents bare the responsibility but they at least have to be in the same state. Not the state penitentiary. Saying you are a father and actually doing the fatherly thing is two different things. Lack of a male role model. What is the next biggest male influence? Male Rappers in the music they listen to everyday BRAINWASHING the delicate minds. Forming negative ideas. I guess you wouldn't want to be rich and famous? Who doesn't? So what do these kids see at the ticket out? Gangbanging. Drugs, money, women, big house, fancy cars, gold and diamonds. It's enough to make me want to do it. Where can i sign up? Lead me to the nearest ghetto ink store. Mama you're gonna love your new rich baby girl.

I'm done beating both the dead horse and my head against a brick wall.

Good thinking Diafel. Glad you stopped before you or the expired equine sustained worse damage.

From reading your posts Angel you sound like a very closed minded person. Stereo typing people for the way they look and stereo typing people for the music they listen to. I'm sorry, but it sounds like you are the person without a clue.

I bet you think video games are also corrupting are youth and texting is for teenagers that shouldn't have cell phones. I don't have tatoos or piercings, but I ride a motorcycle. I guess I must be in a motorcycle gang and of lower class. Whatever !

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

I sing "Meet Me with Your Black Drawers On", so I like black ones...

Angel, just calm down honey!! You are worrying yourself to death. It's like this. Yes, some kids (and some adults, I might add) make bad CHOICES. Yes, bad music is also a choice they make. But these same people would make bad choices anyway. Being honorable and respectable starts at home, but sometimes people still make bad choices. With teens, it probably has a lot more to do with their choices of friends and the influence of peer pressure and desire for acceptance than anything else.

In a way, your close-mindedness about the subjects of which you speak and the way you represent your ideas as fact come across as annoying to me as well as others obviously. On the flip side of the coin, it is unfortunate that you let a small portion of society make you doubt society as a whole. It is unusual to walk in a high school anymore and see kids that aren't full of piercings and disks in their ears. I don't know what they find attractive about it, but they do. However, as a teacher, I can say that the rate of bad behavior is not worse among these teens. They just look a little scary.

As much as you accuse others of living in a box, in fact, you live in a box. I just can't figure out which one. We already know you live in karaoke hell, so my first suspicion is that you live in a large city perhaps. Maybe you live in an area that is saturated with crime and gang activity and drugs on every corner, so you assume that "these people" who are all inked up and pierced up are bad. Or, you're like my dad. You live in a small town where most people are judgemental of others, and they take every horror story they hear on the news and apply it to society as a whole. I live in an area where I am exposed to ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE. I have learned in life that you can't stereotype people. You finally get the idea that most people in the world are bad, and thus you become unhappy about the world you live in.

It is always more intelligent to listen and learn from others versus trying to preach your truth into them. It tends to be offensive, and you appear to be very argumentative. Also, always remember, different people have very different experiences in life. I can't figure out why you never chill out and back down. Once you find out you have offended someone, you just keep on hammering. You are never going to gain any friends here. You don't have to reply that that's not what you're here to do...I can hear your response now, but this forum is not usually a place of hostility. We discuss and share ideas here. It's not a preach to the unholy forum. If all you can do is speak to others in a way that promotes hostility, please be our guest and leave. It can't be any fun for you here when everyone disagrees with you all the time or vows to ignore you. I don't understand your agenda.'

I have said my peace, and I am through. Lighten up!!

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It's called Karaoke Therapy...

You have interpreted my posts the wrong way. I have stated with fact the news stories i have heard and seen in print and on TV. The statistics of criminal activity that includes daily shootings related to criminal-gang drug activity. Either from selling or using drugs. I haven't seen many stories about church bake sales.

The stereotypes i am referring to are not practiced by me. I am speaking about general stereotypes and prejudices that have existed and still exist. I hear how people talk and laugh. I see the looks given to certain people or groups. I have seen bar businesses suffer money loses from certain groups that start to frequent these bars. Some bars attract undesirable elements and they have been deemed as nuisance bars and been forced to shut down because of the danger they pose to the community. Not because they were having too much fun.

I saw Bill Cosby on TV news two days ago talking about the father-family problems facing the black communities. One of his statements included the cost of educationing a child verses the cost of housing a prisoner. He stressed making sure OUR children get good quality educations and not dropping out of school for gang related lifestyles is better and cheaper for all of us. We are talking about OUR tax dollars. His figures were about $4000 to 5000 a year on education verses $30,000 a year to house a prisoner. Now maybe i'm more informed about these subjects and some need to get more information on the subjects and not doubt my word. I assure you there are many major issues happening with the general population. I'm not trying to argue with anyone. I'm stating facts that are being disputed as if i'm totally uninformed, misinformed and lying. This is not the case. Maybe everyone here is living in ideal areas that are totally isolated from such problems. Maybe your local TV and newspaper only reports "happy" news. The real world is full of real problems involving drugs, gangs and needless death. Bill Cosby doesn't live in my nieghborhood.

Anyone that has not witnessed or experienced these subjects is indeed fortunate. But that doesn't mean they do not exist closer to home than you may think. I am frankly surprised by the mass total denial of the many responders to this subject. I find it more shocking and objectionable than my reaction. Ignoring or denying their existance won't stop or help fix anything. These are serious topics and they have serious consquences for everyone. The fix is also a serious topic. These things are getting worse not better. More and more tax money and manpower is being added to fight the drugs and gangs entering OUR country. Unfortunately more and more of OUR young people are seeking out this lifestyle because it is being GLAMORIZED in song. Accepting and denying this doesn't help.

IMO gansta rap music should be somehow stopped. It's not an art form when it leads to serious damaging lifestyles adopted by many impressionable young people as normal and exceptable. This is not what i want for the children in and around my neighborhood. You should think and feel likewise. I refuse to buy or play the songs that glamorize or even mention this lifestyle and other degrading or demeaning subjects. I don't think they are funny or artistic or posess any social value. I will not let it attempt to degrade my show. This is my policy and i have taken a stand to prevent as much as possible their popularity.

The main reason i do karaoke is because i like the way music makes me feel. Many people find solace and confort in music. Many also have been negatively effected by music. Some have even committed suicide from it's influences. Go ahead and laugh. Music is a powerful media. It can and does have powerful effects on certain people that are highly emotional, depressed or under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Music can relax you or put you into a hightened state. People identify closely with the music they listen to. Why do a lot of people that listen to country music wear hats and boots? There is something they like about the lifestyle. Could that same thing happen with rap music? Go ahead and laugh some more. What about techno music, disco or the grunge movement. Nobody dressed or acted like that either? Music influenced it. Nothing else. Fashion becomes the muisc and music becomes the fashion and that becomes the lifestyle. Listening to any of it long enough will have a changing influence on you and others. Go ahead laugh cut me down.