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I started at a show a year and a half ago, originally it was quiet and it built up slowly to eight singers, two of which don’t write out slips (one was my choice he’s disabled would write out the same 15 slips every show, hand them in and then as he came to the stage would tell me which one he wanted to sing, so I wrote all of his songs on a card. The other was making bar staff write out his slips, so for their sake I wrote his songs on a card as well). On the whole it was a calm show.

The owners changed and the new owner started a happy hour, and living in the area knew a lot of people so this once quiet pub, is now packed. The problem I have is I now have lost control of the crowd.

None of the new customers are able to write out slips and all of them have an excuse (usually I’m to drunk to read / I can’t read / I don’t understand your book/ the Friday night guy doesn’t make us do it) , so I now they just ask me if they sing. I have stressed on several occasions if they want to sing they must write out a slip, but if I don’t call them up (because there is no slip), they start yelling at the current singer saying that it should be their turn. To protect the on stage singer (of which I have about six well behaved singers who I don’t believe should suffer) I am now finding all of there songs for the others and to be fair to the well behaved ones I write out their songs as well.

I have always run a strict rotation, but now I am getting continual hassle form the new customers that they’ve seen the same person twice, or that certain songs should be banned because they are too long. The problem is, is that due to the happy hour few can’t listen to reason and most yell out across the pub. . . which disrupts the show.

I also have two non singers who have a habit of walking up to the current singer and taking the mic to sing the song, I have stressed if you want to join in I must get permission from the person on stage before I hand you a microphone, but since I never get the look of permission my answer is to take the mic of the one jumping in and hand it back to the original singer. At this point both singers glare at me.

On top of this I am getting repeat questions of “how many songs am I going to get” “when am I up next” “what do you think I should sing” etc.

I also have two disabled lads that linger around the stage and one customer who demands an in-depth discussion about every song he sings.

None of the customers are violent towards me. It’s just a very demanding show, of which my brain is frazzled by the end of it. I also feel that there is no respect for me from the new crowd but I am at a loss of how to control them. I feel like saying who ever shouts the loudest will get to sing. . . and let them run their own show and fight out rotation between them.

I have three young singers (about 11 years old ) at this venue, all of which can write out a slip, stand upright on stage and use a microphone correctly. They are all polite, and never complain about the length of rotation, although they are the first to suffer as they have to leave at 7:30.

Any ideas?

#1 - Welcome to KJ 101 sounds like a typical growing succesful show.
But be leary once it grows TOO big... no one stays happy !

Instead of SLIPS... try a SIGN UP SHEET you leave by your table. This way AT LEAST the singers write their NAME and SONG REQUEST ( assume you will still have to look up the songh..which if your pc based won't be a problem) You can see the order of when the singers signed up and can keep better control then NO SLIPS AT ALL.

The other alternative is to PLAY HARD BALL and insist the singers do what is expected ( FILL OUT SLIPS / WAIT THEIR TURN / NOT ASSIST OTHER SINGERS)
If done correctly you will succeed..if done WRONG you will just piss the singers off

Unless a person is handicapped(unable to write), they write up their own slips, period. They don't write, they don't sing. Make it practice and train them to do what you want. If they're too drunk to write, they're too drunk to sing. Stand your ground and get a thick skin. The people will do one of two things. Comply or leave. Those who leave will be replaced when it is learned YOU have CONTROL. Don't be a wuss. Remember the three F's (Fair, Firm, but Friendly) Only you can turn yourself into a doormat and this profession isn't good for a doormat.

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Three Fs? I learned it a bit different..

You are the one that has control with the mic switches. When I start getting arguments I turn the stage off and talk to the person on mic. I let everybody know whats going on and treat everybody equally. I do not believe in rules but I establish guidelines and let everybody know what their limits are the same way you let kids know. Slow the show down with their crap and others will get tired of it.

I will give you an example. We had a knothead who would stand on the dance floor and jeer and ridicule singers. About the second time at my show I shut the stage off walked over to him with a wireless mic and asked him :Just What Song Are You SINGIN NEXT Cowboy? He boogied and never came back

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Normally I would agree and in other situations I have done this, However in this venue. . . if I adopt that method. Everyone is too drunk to sing excluding one of the original regulars (the disabled one that i write out the card for). The orginal singers only now come occassionly to see me, the bar is no longer their cup of tea. I am standing by the strict rotation, (at least that way when they complain I know I am in the right) And they do have to wait if I have to look up someones song (you waste my time I'll waste yours <<< enter evil laugh here). I really will have no singers excluding the kids until 7:30 if I impliment that rule. . . and then the kids will get abuse from the adults for singing more songs.

I should add, this is a small bar that holds about 60 people, it's a locals pub not a town pub, so everyone knows each other. I'm also on discs (I do know most of the numbers of by heart but regardless, I'd prefer to be setting the mix than using my vast brain to locate where Sweet caroline is located).

I like the idea of having a white board sign up sheet, so they can see when they are singing. . . but need to find away of implementing it where they cannot alter it or scribble over it.

@Karaokyer (sorry for the spelling) I do the whole teacher thing, but most of the time it's water of a ducks back. I've switched off the PA, challenged people. I chatted outside to some of the locals who ask why i'm not smiling, I joke that it's because when I have to deal with "tidddly" people I turn into a school teacher. . . and I rather just be entertaining the crowd.

That venue will only drag you down and ruin your rep. Let one of the bottom feeders have it and boogie.

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Ditto what Karyoker said - I don't think you'll win this one. The unruly homies have taken over and you are their victim. This is one of those no-win situations, I really believe - you can't reason with drunks, and you can't reason with an owner who sides with those drunks because they are his bread and butter. I just left a venue after a year and a half, and with a very good relationship with owner who was absentee most of the time - I'm not going to play at the whim of a bunch of people who can't control their drinking. I don't need 30-somethings acting out on my stage...hence, found someone else to do the show and I have moved on.

Take the alcohol out of this equation and you could deal with it but that is not going to happen. (PS: I visited one of those town pubs once in Devon -- I can't even imagine trying to host a show in a place like that.)

I had this problem when running discs, I put up a little sign as a joke, we will be glad to write up your slip, there will be a $1 service charge per song.
Some actually paid it Otherwise I just did it. When I mad the move to computer, I try to have them write down at least the song title. Some have even shouted their request from across the room - not preferred but I will still accept. As much as I tried to get them to fill out a proper slip, many just never got it even some of the regs.

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I done that in another venue, made £40 (which although i didn't tell the customers I gave to charity). . . sadly in this case it would just be other thing for them to comprehend and argue with.

thanks for all the advice everyone, some of it just confirms what i already thought. x x x

It seems like a "rowdy" venue - people screaming and grabbing the mics etc.

another approach is IF YOU CAN'T BEAT THEM JOIN THEM

Don't be friendly be the opposite in a friendly way --- Someone yells "when am I up" yell back "when you fill out your slip" A helper grabs the mic from a singer
STOP THE MUSIC and embarras the person and restart the song when they get off the stage. What you will find is that MOST of the patrons will be on your side.

Asking or demanding that this type of crowd FOLLOW rules could be a waste of time
have fun with being NASTY they might just like it and respect you for it

Hi Marble - I'm so sorry to hear your having a rough go of it.

It sounds like you have the growing pains of a new crowd that isn't that great of a crowd. I think you can turn it around. The number one thing to remember is you can't make everyone happy and you will have some growing pains.

I would try putting down the law before quitting. It takes a little time to train a new crowd. Especially this type of crowd, but I think you'll find it is worth it. It will get worse before better.

I keep index cards for the regulars. When they bring up a slip I just add their new song to it, so it doesn't take up a lot of time. It is actually a huge plus to do this because a lot of them will eventually just let you pick the song they will sing next. Another plus to this is the people that get used to not having to look up their songs usually stay regulars because of the convenience of it.

If they don't fill out a slip themselves they don't sing ! Of course handdicapped is different. Believe me if they want to sing bad enough they'll do it and if they don't like it - There's the door ! If the bartender wants to help someone, let them - thats his/her choice.

If they are annoying you with when am I up and you skipped me tell them if they ask again they won't sing, period. You are letting these children get away with murder. Sure they pout and threaten to leave and it bites to put down the law, but once they learn you aren't going to cater to them they'll stop. I promise you that.

I have a metal strip with magnets I use to keep rotation. The singers index cards or slips are in order they are turned in on it, so if they don't believe me I show them where they are in order. I'll explain how things work once after that they have no excuse for complaining once they know everyone waits their turn - no exceptions.

I don't mind if once in a while people ask when their up, but if it is the type of person that continually bothers me I explain that when they turn their slip in they don't go ahead of everyone else they have to wait their turn. Think of it like a line in a grocery store. If they still don't get the clue I tell them if they ask again I'm going to take them out of rotation because they are now becoming a nuisance.

If they go back to the crowd and complain to everyone don't worry about it. People don't want to listen to that babble either. They usually get shunned. If they threaten to leave ignore it. 99 out of 100 times they don't leave and sometimes even come back and apologize. The last thing they want to do is get the KJ mad at them. You have the power to let them sing or not.

Talk to the bartender about the problems you're having. Usually they are having the same problems. Most bartenders have a bit of hardness to them from dealing with these type of people. I guarrantee they aren't putting up with it. A good bartender knows they have control of what the customer wants - alcohol. So if a patron acts like a jerk they'll be the last one served or not at all.

If you lay down the law you will earn respect. I've dealt with crowds like this and it was hard for me at first. I wanted to make everyone happy and I didn't like the confrontation of it all. I had one regular actually cry. She came back the next night and apologized saying she was drunk. I hate when people get mad at me, but it's part of the job. I had one guy shove me into my rack because I turned his mic off for screaming the "F" word over the mic over and over again. He left and never came back. Fine with me. I don't want that type of person at my show anyway.

My crowd now knows the rules. I seldom ever get a whiner unless it's someone new that needs to be trained. But believe me I went through growing pains. Stand your ground don't continue to let these people make you miserable.

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Sounds like a hostile environment to begin with. Probably should look for a gig more your speed.


How can you call it a strict rotation when you aren't even getting slips from people and they're jumping up out of turn, etc.?


You are in control. If you can't put a white board by your mixing board without people altering it or scribbling on it, then they are acting like infants, and you should either deal with them thusly or find a new gig.



Sounds like overall, you just need to start shopping for a new venue. This one and you don't fit together. You aren't doing anything wrong, they are, but if you can't either put up with the chaos, or control the chaos, then this gig is not for you.

MOST karaoke venues are pretty tame compared to the chaos you are describing. Were I you, I'd look for a new gig at a less rowdy bar.

I don't mean this in a bad way, but it takes a certain personality to be able to handle drunks and get them under control when it comes to running a show, and I think you have figured out that you might not have that particular personality.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

We have an envelope for all of our regular singers with their songs in them. They have the choice of putting them in the order they want or letting me pick. They have the choice of bringing one up at a time or leaving them with me. We also have a white board where I write everyones name that they do not touch.

You may also condsider a co-host to help with the songs. They can look up songs for the potential singer and help write slips if needed and run interference when you are busy.

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Kevin

The bar owner is responsible for the patrons being totally trashed. They are obviously way over serving these people. It's illegal here to keep serving people that are visably intoxicated. So management is a major problem. Are there any bouncers (security people) in the bar?

Verbal fights with drunks is not going to be a winning situation for you. I wouldn't continue to work in that crowd. The bar owner is not going to stop serving anyone. He's making too much money on them. Does he even know what you are putting up with?

I won't subject myself to this kind of situation or abuse.

This reminded me of a gig I did about a month ago, not a regular gig but the entertainment director calls me every so often when they're having a special weekend. Anyway, he sings in the rotation with everyone else. The night I was there last it was fairly busy and he was sitting at the far end of the bar as far away from me as he could be. I looked down and noticed the light on my cell phone flashing. I check it and there's a text message from him that says "Mack the Knife - Gene". So I entered the song and when he came up I announced it was the first ever request I had gotten through text message. I ended up getting a few more from him and others before the night was over.

I'm pretty lenient when it comes to slips. I'm PC based so I actually tell people that if they don't want to fill out a slip they can just come tell me their name and the name of the song they want to sing. It takes all of 5 seconds to enter them in most cases. If I have to take care of a singer currently on stage, I tell the people waiting to request a song to wait for a moment. It works out fine, they respect my need to manage the show and I respect their desire to not fill out slips.

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Tony we were taking requests by txt one night too. That way you can get their phone # & flirt with the gals and whatever......... I had my regs trained. If we had our hands on the keyboard or mixer dont bother us. Then we are ready to take requests and I would rather do it that way unless the rotation is super big. But to me request slips take more time and are more of a bother.

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I would say either quit or adopt your style to fit the venue... done.

I very rarely use slips, and I like it that way... of course I'm on the computer so all I have to do is type the song and it comes up. Going to computer will streamline your show... for one, it will keep track of singer history's for you, and two the speed at which you will be able to bring up songs will be faster. ... those disk spinner that will disagree... back off. I can bring up the song in the time it takes you to reach from your disk file to player. For my regulars... its faster than that.

Can you type? I do have nimble fingers, so this adds to my speed tremendously. My Wednesday night gig is exactly like yours and they love me here. I don't worry about song slips but they are there if someone wants them.

Adopting my style works great for me when I take a day off. Makes them appreciate me when I'm gone. The next week all I get are complaints about how the KJ made them fill out slips, didn't have thier songs, etc. etc. Hee, hee. I love job security, no one is coming in behind me and stealing my gig. The customers would revolt!

Adapt and overcome my friend, and these minor annoyances will seem trivial in time.

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Thanks guy's. I think i'm going to embrace a few of your methods. . . Your comments have made me review the situation, I understand your comments about the rotation, but it is strict the ones that jump up miss their next go, and everyone takes their posistion from the moment they ask me for the next song.

I understand the comments about going onto computer, but that isn't an option at the moment. It is currently not legal in the UK, (well it is but I can't afford to do it as it would mean buying just downloads, which would cost a fortune and would mean a reduced number of songs compared to my disc collection) When they sort out the Promug (sorry produb) license, I'll be the first to start copying. I am curious how you guys find computers quicker, all the computer systems i have hosted on have created an apathy with the customers, they wait for the name to be called, walk to the stage and then pause for a few minutes whilst they decided what to sing.

Having a co-host is out of the question, the only person I could currently ask (i'm looking for staff at the moment) is my partner, who refuses to go in the venue as the customers rudeness and ignorance winds him up (last time he was in the the venue, someone joked about spilling a pint over the rack, waving it drunkenly over the rack as he did so) .

I like Babs idea about a magnetic strip, I can keep that above my rack, which means I'll be the only one who can control it, but if/when the customers start complaining, I can point to it and carry on. I already have the cue cards (which list, a singers usual songs, and notes about compression/ mixer settings for them if necessary).

The difficulty about leaving this venue, is that it is the only busy karaoke in my area on that day and the crowd won't follow, as they are loyal to the new owner and the cheap beer.

I think the secret my be to have fun with being NASTY. . . and rather than getting stressed about rules, keep the rotation as fair as possible, and let them all get on with it. I think I will also slow things down with more filler music, so I'm not rushing as much, I'm used to running a fast show, especially on discs for everything. I'm always darting between three decks (karaoke and dj decks) yapping on the microphone, running out to chat to customers. So I'll play the filler music for longer and take my time.

I am due for a pay rise anyway, so I will discuss a higher wage, with the owner, which if they don't accept will solve the problem. If they do I'm going to give it a month and review the situation, if it's not worth the stress, I'm going to chalk it up as not for me and move on.

I think Brazilian Jiu Jitsu might be of some use also. Break someone's arm or choke them to sleep and I bet your crowd will settle down.