Karaoke Forums

Was wondering if anyone can help me on the following problem! After finally getting my system running not too badly on my once a month gig at the local pub, i have one more nagging small problem to deal with. I cannot get the volume of the 2 Shure SM58 mics I set up to equal or better the volume of the karaoke music at higher volume levels when the pub is busier. At lower volume levels when the pub is not so busy, everything sound good. I have read up on gain structure and alike and have tried numerous different combos of set up, all to no avail. I am running a Vocopro Gig Man Plus karaoke machine to Wharfdale Pro PM 600 mixer/amp onto Wharfdale Pro (Titan 12 - Passive speakers). The music side of it is fantastic, but the Mics side not as good when i need volume in the pub if it gets busy. My question is can i run the Mic's on a separate amp into the speakers, or would i run a Pre-amp into the main mixer/amp. My thoughts are i'd love to seperate the Mics and have them on there own system so once my music sound is set up, i can just leave it alone as it sounds great and worry about mic volume on a seperate system setup. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated, thanks, Mick.

Try this.. During setup adjust the mic levels at a lower mail level then check at crowd level. If feedback decrease level. At this point I like to bring up the fill or background to a slightly lower level.. The karaoke background will adjusted to balance with the mic levels.

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Are the microphones plugged directly into the MIXER or the KARAOKE MACHINE ?

They should be plugged into the MIXER directly but if thats how you have it

Try it the other way

Ok, this may work for you. Reduce the signal on the music channels, turn up the main volume control on the mixer and turn up the mic channels. I found that with my laptop if I reduce the input signal going to the mixer, you have a bit more control and can turn the music channels up or down more than when the signal is hot going into the mixer. I don't know how you can reduce the signal from a CD player other than turning down the music channels and turning up the main volume controls. This allows you to increase the mic gain over the music. And as was mentioned, make sure the mics are plugged into the mixer, not into the Karaoke player. I hope this helps.

You don't have enough headroom. ie your rig is too small for that gig.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Yeah, at 150 watts you are really lacking power. 600 to 1000 watts is about basic for small to mid size bar applications for the exact problem you're talking about.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

Thanks guys for your replies. I am now pretty much out of ideas as i have tried all suggestions short of upgrading the setup all together as Jian suggested. Am i correct in saying Jian that my mixer/amp combo is being driven to its limits and causing the feedback in the room i am in. I did bring it into work and set up the mixer/amp and speakers to one mic and the same problems occured, but then i put the speakers onto the balcony and didn't have the feedback as it was producing sound into a big open hangar with less reflective surfaces.
Therfore, would i be correct in saying that if i get a bigger mixer/amp combo with more O/P and I don't have to drive it to its limits to produce comparable volume levels, would this help my cause, or is this statement just complete bollocks!
Would changing the mic's to a more uni-directional kind help?
Would changing the speakers help?
Would buying a complete new rig help?
Thanks in advance for any ideas from anyone, Mick.

Y'know I've hooked more powerful amps to my mixer and you would be amazed at the difference. I barely had to turn up the music or the mic channels so these guys may be on the right track. More power makes a huge difference. If the mixer and amp are separate components then all you need is a more powerful amp and you don't need to mess with the mixer. This was my experience.

Yes you may need to up-grade your system.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

If my main volume sliders aren't up enough nothing sounds right.

Thanks again. Now I know I might have to upgrade, what is the best way to do this. Should I stick with the Power amp/mixer route or get seperate amp and seperate mixer?
Any suggestions on a new rig would be helpful!
Will my speakers still be adeqaute with new stuff!
Tips on a decent CD+G player would be helpful also!
An average size pub is what I will normally do the karaoke show in.
Decent gear at a decent price is cool, not looking to blow the house down yet have plenty of "headroom" as Jian suggested.
Cheers, Mick.

If you want to upgrade:
Have a budget to work with.

Take one of this route:
power mixer/mixing amp
power speaker/active speaker
separate component.

It does not matter what route you take, what matter is; does the system fit the job?
Learn how to read spec of both amp and speakers.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Thanks again for your input guys. After reading this forum fairly thorougly, here is what i think i am going to try to put together. I think a QSC GX5 amp as Lonman suggested with a a Yamaha MG124CX mixer is going to be my next two purchases. I can get these two for roughly $800 canadian for the 2. Unfortunately, i will have to stick with my Wharfdale Pro Titan 12 (Passive Speakers) for now because of budget constraints and hopefully upgrade in the future. They are rated at 500W (Program) and the QSC GX5 seems to be a very good match for these, rated 400W-600W (Program) for 8 ohm loads.
Am I on the right track here guys?
Your feedback as always, means a lot to us newbies who try to glean as much as we can from your vast experience.
Cheers, Mick.

If there is anyone that can post an answer to my last reply, I would be eternally grateful as I am travelling upto Edmonton tomorrow regarding purchasing new equipment.
Thanks, Mick.

The GX5 would be a good match for those speakers & will make a huge difference in sound quality over what your current amp is capable of pushing.

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Ok, finally upgraded and bought the QSC GX5 amp with a Yamaha MG166Cx mixer. Happy with the purchases, although only used them once so need to get to grips with the settings. Bad thing happened during the show though, noticed one of the speakers was "crackling" fairly badly and maybe "blown." Kinda noticed this a little with my last setup, although still useable, not the best situation! So here we go again, need some reasonable passive speakers at a reasonable price. Should I go 15" or stick with 12's with this setup. The QSC amp doe have crossover options aswell, so I could hook up lows seperated from the highs, but to be honest, I think the KISS approach on this one may be best.
Getting away a little bit from the above question, if I have 2 mics for singers setup on the above mixer, can I setup a seperate "host" mic for myself that doesn't go through the "effects" package, so I am not "echoey" (is that a real word?) when i simply speak or announce the next singer! Kinda tried at the pub the other night but had to concentrate on the show more, so really didn't have time.
As always, thanks for all you suggestions, Mick.

Depends on price range and weight requirements. If you want light, the Peavey PR-15 works pretty well. It isn't the best speaker in the world, but it sounds halfway decent.

If you don't mind heavy, I like the Yamaha S115 or S112. I have them and love them.


Easily. Just don't send anything on the FX bus, i.e. turn that knob all the way to the left on your DJ mic.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Welcome Mick. The Yamaha MG166Cx mixer is a decent board and the FX are ok. There are a lot of things you can do with that mixer. The onboard compression is nice to hold down the vocals when you get someone screaming into the mic. Too much compression can cause feedback though.

I have also been on a quest to find a good, reliable, fast loading CDG player. I am convinced that they are no longer made. I have two RSQ and while they load rather fast they seem a little buggy and one tray has started acting up on occasion. Some of the old school players get pretty good reviews - if you can find one. Also, I have noticed that I have to turn the music volume down on the RSQ players or the levels are just too high into the mixer, causing the slightest bump of the music slider on the board to blast the crowd away.

The RSQ plays most formats and NEO discs which hold 100s of songs but this feature is really only useful if you are going to compile your own discs ripped from original CDGs or MP3s that you own. I don't think NEO format will survive. The same might be said for Super CDGs. Just seems like things are going the way of the computer and away from discs.

As for the mic feedback. I have a SM58 and cheaper PG58 and with smaller stage setups I find that the SM58 will sometimes feedback (especially with a quiet singer) where the PG58 will not. Both have very good vocal sound for karaoke. Just my experience. Good luck!

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-Kona

Instead of getting new speakers, it would be cheaper just to replace the blown drivers. You said it started with the last rig, being it was only pushing 150 watts, chances are you turned it up into clipping to compensate for crowd noise & they started going then. If you can't get stock replacements from Wharfdale, you could go with something like
http://www.zzounds.com/item--EMNDELTA12A
http://www.zzounds.com/item--PEVBW1201
Either would be an adequate replacement. If you feel you need a little more oomph in the low notes, a separate sub could be added later.
As far as a host mic, yes you can turn the effects on or off on the mic in question.

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I agree, those are good speakers for their price range. They also come in a C115V and C112V version ("C" instead of "S") which has a nice, durable finish. I like it better than the carpet finish because it won't smell so much like a bar after a few months of use. The small cost difference is worth it IMO.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ