Karaoke Forums

What would you do to attract that age group? Slow love songs like in the soaps?

Chippendale dancers? Male models?

I'm all eyes...

It's becoming clear that there's some real confusion between
the process of defining, targeting, reaching and connecting with your market
and the somewhat related process of branding your product/service

Again, Kellogg's is the brand. And their cornflakes product would be the same product and would target the same market even if the brand had been named
Caelogs instead of Kellogg's.

And as a result of branding if you prefer Post Raisin Bran when you go to the grocery shelf you won't pick up Kellogg's Raisin Bran by mistake.

If you don't like "You're the Star" karaoke, you'll avoid their advertised shows
And if you like "Sing A Song", you'll go to their advertised shows

PS I neglected to state earlier that I am in complete agree with Angle's first post which offered that much of what people are saying about their "brand" is actually more of a pronouncement of their mission statement!

OK let's use this as an example of how to "brand" your show, or as I like to say it, establish your show as a specific type. If you want a brand to your show to a younger age group you can't just show up with a couple of speakers on sticks and set up in a bar with older clientele.

Find a "clean slate" room. When I first tried this approach, it was in a room known as a country karaoke bar. I was fired in two weeks.

Find a room that will let you set up your system as a permanent install. This is because you are going to need a large system with multiple 18" subs. And that part of your "brand" absolutely must be there if this is the type of show that you are trying to do. What I'm saying is if you are targeting this age group specifically and not running a general purpose show where you would like to mix young singers with seasoned ones.

And you do have a band-sized PA right?

Stock stuff for the guys in this age group too, and pay just as much attention to them. The ladies whom you are trying to attract all have bfs.

My strong suggestion is to run with an open book, although a guy in the forum with a much bigger room than mine (Lonnie) censors his and is successful at it.

Know your material. The brand the most of the forum trusts the most (SC) is often not the best for current pop, hiphop, and rap. If you automatically out of habit use SC for everything you will get a lot of discouraged singers.

Once I got rolling I didn't have to look for my singers very hard. They found me. Word got out fast.

That's where the market research part would come in especially in my case since being a man I don't have as much insight. I like to think I have a lot of empathy towards other people, but of course that isn't the same as living it.

However, I've toyed with the thought that you couldn't go too far wrong aping some of Oprah Winfrey's approach.

For example, let's say you knew of a local manicurist (or other woman oriented business) wanting to establish her business in your area. You could make an arrangement for her to come and demonstrate her skills for one or two lucky customers selected at random from your singers. Any freebies you gave away would be oriented towards women as well.

You would do some charity shows for causes such as Breast Cancer and other women's organizations making friends with women in the groups as you went and planning special nights at your show to benefit those causes. (I've already done a few awards banquets for an amateur women's roller derby league in my area and made a few friends there -- it was a hoot doing it too!)

Your song books could be done in colors more appealing to women such as pink or other pastel colors. Your cordless mics could be dressed up with mic skins.

http://www.sennheiserusa.com/media/productImages/proZoom
(This picture was too big to post)

Your music buys would be tailored and concentrated towards young women as well-- not that you wouldn't still welcome any men that would come to the show, but you would brand your show as being the first karaoke show in your area especially tailored to women. Think that would generate any curiosity and free PR for you?

I've just started to scratch the surface of this idea, but my biggest fear of doing it is that I am a man, so I don't know that I would have the credibility as a host to pull the idea off to it's full potential...

If my wife weren't terminally shy, I'd have her host and just run the sound. I believe we'd make some serious moolah with such a show. I'd love to hear any thoughts you have on this idea...

What all have confused here is PR. When I first got in TV repair a shop foreman told me it is 49% tech ability and 51% public relations. I thought he was nuts. But experience proved him right. Entering into a strangers home one had 5 seconds to get their confidence and sell them on the fact you could fix their TV.

In any business that deals with and services the public PR is first and foremost. It is the first impression and what people will think what your strongpoints are and will have expectations of what you represent. It can work into your "trademark or brand"but is out and out PR and selling self.Promotions play a very integral large part of it also.

Most here only think about system and hosting but PR is 51% in this profession too.

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I don't really like the cornflake example since many people now view cornflakes as a commodity. Lots of people grab the generic despite the presence of the Kellogg's name. Whatever difference in quality might have existed at one time seems to be non-existent now.

Anybody can slap a special name on a product, but to actually have a brand, you have to consistently deliver on a unique promise of something that people want that they can't get anywhere else.

I enjoy listening to Old Time Radio shows on occasion. I get a kick out of the corny old ads such as those for "Signal Gasoline". (Long out of business) In those ads you hear people claiming how Signal gasoline gives their cars more "pep", better gas mileage, etc. Only problem was despite the popularity of the shows Signal advertised on and despite the cleverness of their ads, their claims weren't really true and people figured it out.[/quote]

One thing I did that helps with the females in this age group was put together a special book for just them that contains only artists like Beyonce, Pink, No Doubt, Mary J, Rihanna, etc. No oldies, country, alt-grunge, metal. It could have been a pastel but I just did in white. That's a good idea and when I update it (I need to get Lady Gaga in there) maybe I'll look for pink paper.

As far as tailoring a show specifically towards females I have my doubts because they often come in with guys. And they definitely want guys checking them out when they're up. I wouldn't want to put the men off or make them feel uncomfortable. Not many guys watch Oprah - one of your examples as how to host this thing.

Oh yeah and the mic that gets used the most in my show by the women is the skull mic not the pink camo. There's a couple of guys that grab the pink mic but we won't go there.

Its simple From 6-9P have ladies night. Drinks (beer and wells) half off.

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BigJer

The fact that you view cornflakes as a commodity shouldn't detract from the discussion.

But to make it easier to understand that a brand name can generate a wide range of psychological responses or virtual no response at all, compare your last purchase of ink for your computer printer that was OUT of ink to the last purchase you made of an automobile.

When you purchased the ink you had already selected and owned a particular brand and model of printer. If there is no opportunity to refill your ink cartridge(s), you'll purchase the model ink cartridge (which might be considered to be a brand?) produced for your machine by the manufacturer (the actual brand).

You will ignore all ink products manufactured by other companies and will only look for ink from the maker of your printer. You will also be limited to a selection of 5 colors and some companies now offer choices as to the "type" of ink (usage for the ink).

There may have been rational reasons why you bought the particular printer, but there is little reasoning involved when you purchase the replacement ink cartridges! Nonetheless, the ink cartridges are not a commodity

In the case of the printer cartridge, if I could find a generic available cheaper, I'd try it at least once and if it filled my need, that would be what I'd switch to. I do look for them when I go out for a printer cartridge, just can't seem to find them anymore. I guess I'm highly price driven due to the way my dad brought me up.

Back to the more philosophical aspect of the discussion, I don't really view the name of the company itself as the magic behind a brand. The magic is in the one of a kind, desirable promise that the brand name stands for. If there isn't such a promise, if the unique benefit isn't there, or the promise isn't lived up to than the name of the product or service generates a neutral or even negative reaction.

Ok thanks Bill, -- that was a perfect illustration of why I would need to do some market research before launching this concept. I'm sure a lot of my assumptions may turn out to be off base and maybe some great ideas will come to light out of the research that might not have occurred to me otherwise. I may do a pink mic and a skull mic just as you do and I'm curious to see if I can skin my wired mics as well, just to offer even more variety. Letting the customer pick a mic that suits the mood of the song would never hurt.

One of the roller derby gal's really nails Drowning Pool 's "Bodies" I could definitely see her with the skull mic. My own wife is just the opposite -- a very girly, girl, but it would definitely be a mistake for me to assume all women think as she does.

Nice tie in! I'll write that idea down.

Bill thanks so much for the feedback Pink pages on the paper? Good idea!!!

(About those subs, you mentioned in the other post.... this is enough grist for a whole 'nother thread. I'll probably settle for running one for the sake of the headroom and clarity. I have some ideas about sound pressure levels that will probably be somewhat controversial, but I have strong feelings about the ideas...)



But my ideal customer in this scenario isn't guys it's women. Not that I want to put male singers off, or neglect them per se, but if I lose sight of my ideal customer, then the company is no longer specially tailored to uniquely serve the needs of women and my marketable differences begin to evaporate.

Besides if you are a single guy trying to meet women would you rather go to a bar full of ladies with their boyfriends in tow or a bar full of ladies out for a girls night out?

Worst case scenario -- I try this, the concept blows up in my face - I change my company name, work a different part of town and I'm right back in business, but if it does work.... WOW! I've got something unique, original and not so easy to undercut.

So you acknowledge that for you PRICE trumps all other factors including this brands promise you keep alluding to. And the UNDEVELOPED "promise" of generics is that you'll save money.

And as to the promise you demand from brands: What does Pespi promise and what does Coke promise and how come in one marketing area the Pepsi "promise" is more appealing while in a different market the Coke's "promise" is more attractive?

And what differentiates Wendy's promise from Burger King's? I once debated with a friend as to which was the superior burger product, Wendy's vs Burger King. We both agreed to try the opposing brand. While I was convinced Burger King was superior he was an avid Wendy's customer. When we met again, I was now sure Wendy's was the best and he switched his allegiance to Burger King. Perhaps the real difference between the two is that they ARE different rather than some "mythical promise"?


PS
Big Jer

You may find it beneficial to read many sources regarding marketing and "branding" rather than "hanging your hat" on what one book has to say. And the so-called promise may involve nothing more than including scantily clad women in an ad! So, the "promise" for the guys attending your karaoke show may be nothing more than the expectation to meet attractive single women!

Forget the word "brand" it's really not all that important to me how you care to define the word - what I do care about is the original idea I was trying to discuss...

"Does your show make and deliver on on a unique, one of a kind promise to the customer you would most like to reach satisfying their entertainment needs in a way that they can't find at any other show in your market?"

Any product that doesn't deliver on a unique promise that matters to the targeted customer is vulnerable to price competition -- your soda pop example works perfectly to illustrate the point.

I'll drink Coke, Pepsi or RC Cola whatever's cheaper. The names don't matter, they all have an image in my mind as products of good quality, but they aren't all that unique so they're pretty close to commodities in my mind unless you compare them to a cola I've never tasted before.

If the price of all three were identical I'd buy the Coke, because I do have some preference for the Coca Cola taste, but it's not all that strong a preference and the others are still very satisfactory products. If Pepsi or RC Cola is on sale for .99 and Coke is $1.29 I'll buy the Pepsi or the RC.

Btw Pepsi did at least promise it was "sweeter than Coke" for a while. I found that promise to be true, but it wasn't a promise that actually mattered to me and I guess a lot of other people thought the same way because I haven't seen a Pepsi taste test ad in a long time. It's not enough just to be different, you have to be different in a way that the customer really cares about and wants.

Getting back to something closer to karaoke, I could buy a pair of Nady speakers for a whole lot less than a pair of Peavey SP-5G's but after having heard the difference on my own rig and seeing how much more efficient and better sounding the Peavey's are, I wouldn't switch back to Nady's if I had to go out and buy speakers again.

When I buy my subwoofer it's going to be a Peavey So no price doesn't trump everything when there is a product of appreciably better quality available that still fits my budget.

Brand or whatever you want to call whatever "it" is.

Happy customers come back. Unhappy ones don't. I have no problem making people happy. That is my brand.

Quality. Consistancy. Fairness. Gets repeat business.

People want good karaoke. They don't want a KJ messing with them. They want to sound good. Be treated fairly. They want new music once in a while.

What else is there? You can either deliver or not. My reputation (commodity, brand) is, i can deliver. Time after time. Consistantly with quality and fairness.

It comes down to good and bad karaoke.

Angel I'm curious about what you thought about my women's karaoke show ideas....

I don't know about a "BRAND", but I think the ONLY way you're going to get a FULL bar of WOMEN ONLY, is to name your company HEFNER'S KARAOKE, or maybe EXOTIC DANCER KARAOKE, or maybe LILITH KARAOKE. Women want to be seen by MEN, not just a bunch of other women, that's why strip clubs make so much money, they have EXACTLY what you're discribing, a WHOLE bar full of scantilly clad "SINGLE" women. Don't you think EVERY man would love to have a business that could pull in a FULL bar of women on any given night. Hell' if it were that easy, I'd get a small business loan TOMORROW, open my own bar, set up my karaoke, and sit back in my silk robe, and CHA-CHING, collect the money. I'd let the LADIES come in and sing for free, and have a guy at the door collecting the 10.00 cover charge for ALL the men who want to come in, then I could charge them if they wanted to "SING" a "DUET" with one of my "CUTIES". Sounds good, doesn't it, may even work, WHO KNOWS, maybe I'VE just made YOU a BILLIONAIRE. When you make it big, DON'T FORGET ME. THANKS.

Rosario
Serenity Now Karaoke

REALLY? So we somewhat agree and yet we still disagree

I am quite anxious to drop the term "brand", but I am actually more anxious to reconsider the following thought about what a brand is:


While there are unique products in this world, most of them are "patented". Other than that, everything that works has an imitator and there will always be someone capable of duplicating/imitating a desirable produce/service