Karaoke Forums

wannabe...

You brought a great thought into my head...

I record, engineer & occasionally produce Original music. EVERY SINGLE
one of those products usually come out of those studio on burned CD-R's or CD-RW's.

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Brian D.
(BHB)

Like mentioned earlier there are alot of gray areas surrounding this. Best is to keep in mind what would hold up in a court of law, use your common sense in this issue. When you buy a cd, cdg, computer game, what ever..
you own that CD, you can do what ever you want with it, use it as toilet paper, paper weight, burn 5000 copies, remix the songs etc, that is 100% completely legal.

How ever it is 100% illegal to make a 1:1 copy and sell it in your turn. You can make a backup copy of your CDGs and play them in your machine and put the originals in a safe if you want, or I rather recommend it unless you are stupid. Bottom line here is that someone paid for the original. If you are a KJ and use "working copies" of your cdgs and the cops show up, then you better be able to produce the original. That is the bottom line! If you dont have the original disc, then you are in trouble. I am pretty sure that the CDG manufacturers wants you to use originals, because if you scratch it up, then they get to sell you another copy, but that is just a business sense from their side. I am pretty sure that making copies of your cdgs and play them as a KJ is 100% legal. I have seen KJs that only use originals throw their weight around with their $$$ to keep smaller KJs (that can not afford to have their cdgs scratched up) out of establishments, that is pretty sad.

Otherwise computerized KJ systems where you download the cdgs to the harddrive of the karaoke machine, would be illegal. The answer is YES, if you are a KJ, you can use burned CDGs as working copies as long as you can produce the original if needed.

More manufacturers including Sound Choice & Chartbuster are starting to give lifetime replacement guarantees - provided the disc is still in production. If a disc becomes damaged for any reason, send it back (even if it's in pieces) with the shipping charge & they will send you a new one.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Lonnie--you hit on the 7 magic words which cause me to back up all my discs.

"PROVIDED THE DISC IS STILL IN PRODUCTION."

And just for good measure, as far as I'm concerned, KAPA is a dog with no teeth, and copyright laws are ridiculously unenforceable. Sure the KAPA website is a nice resource to find out if you've been sold a burn, but that's about all it's good for.

I've shared this story before, but for the newbies, I'll post it again.

Short story long, I bought a disc on ebay that turned out to be a burn. I filed a complaint with ebay, and then contacted the US Copyright office who basically told me to take a flying fling because they are not an enforcement agency. They said only the person who holds the copyright can bring legal proceedings against this individual.

SO, in a nutshell, unless you are some sort of copyright fanatic (and there are people here who are) willing to track down the copyright holders for each track on a burned disc there really isn't a lot that can be done.

Now before you copyright fanatics start to flame me for being a f-ing pirate or whatever let me state once again for the record that I have paid for every track that appears in my songbooks, and as my story notes I actually TRIED to stop someone from selling burns. My point is that I don't have the time or inclination to do the legwork required.

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Spreading the karaoke gospel

Anybody ever heard of the "Fair Use" Clause in the copyright act???

I believe in 1 to 1 copies.. My flag flies daily, and ya know what..

IF anybody wants to sue me on a 1 to 1 copy .. PLEASE do I could use another room on my recording studio!!

My attorney loves idiot corperate types.

Just try me!

Just ask 2 record labels in Nashville.

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Brian D.
(BHB)

BJC...

I pay a FORTUNE in Royalties and Licensing.. I get little back..

I pay a fortune in TAXES and get little back...

I GET PAID A GOOD AND GET SCREWED IN THE BACK..HMMMM

Sounds like AMERICA to ME..

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Brian D.
(BHB)

If you have a copied disk, leave it at home, that's where it belongs.
I have only one use for a burned disk...
Target pratice!

Kojak,
You are on my wavelength!

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Brian D.
(BHB)

The subject of 'burned" copies really seems to irritate some people and I guess they have a legitimate concern if somone out there is buying an orginal making 20 copies and then selling them and the orginal on EBAY ..But if I was doing that ...I wouldnt need to KJ for the money --My point is a 1 to 1 copy is fine ...YOU and I have to protect our investments .... The question of legality is a dim point ....
HE WHO LIVES WITHOUT SIN ,MAY CAST THE FIRST STONE !

MULTI RIGGERS WHO COPY AND UNDERCUT THE SYSTEM IS A PROBLEM

How many ways can we rehash this subject? People have been makin' copies for years.....record to cassett....cassett to casset....vhs to vhs....disc to disc.....the chances of stopin' it are nill....as fast as you plug one hole in the dam another will appear....

Don't get me wrong, I understand the reasonin', but what's the point in beatin' a dead horse?

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[glow=blue]Tequila & A Song
KKid[/glow]

I see the multiops doing their thing expanding on burns and it certainly limits the market rate for bar work. After the initial investment, I've never really considered the price to reasonably expand, keeping fairly current and purchasing requested tracks or other "must haves" to be that big a big deal. On the other hand, the bread and butter for me is the mobile DJ (weddings and the like) and one-time karaoke and karaoke/DJ parties (particularly kid-oriented ones where having some current urban and pop pays for itself many times over). The bar market rate for straight karaoke has been deteriorating around here, IMO, largely due to the multiops and burns.

I can't see how any single operator (with a family, mortgage, etc.) could make a decent living off of full-time karaoke work around here.

BTW, if you DJ, I recommend ergmusic.com 's Nu Music series for keeping current with pop, dance, country, rock and urban - for a single series, it covers things pretty well and pays for itself.

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Sounds Great! Entertainment
Bartlett, Illinois

Marty, I'd have to agree with you on the Nu music series. I get the Nu Urban Traxx series every month, and the music is always the newest out. Not only that, but all of the songs are edited. This works well if you are doing parties with children or young adults.

Will

Hey folks here is my take on it.. I really dislike the Mega-Multirigging that takes place with only 1 or 2 set of Media. as well as the commercial downloaders who don't pay royalties on the music. But until the Media Manufacturers (SC, CB, PR, Star, THM, PHM, AND OTHERS) are willing to step forward and do something about it, I guess we are all screwed.

Now I don't really advocate violence towards another KJ or another show, but wouldn't be a bad scenario if all the sudden a bunch of legal operators went in and confiscated copied media from a mega-multi-rigger? and got it on video and drove over it with a large construction vehicle in front of the club?

Just my 2 cents.

I pay cash for mine and get manufacturer's permission to copy mine.. DO YOU?

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Brian D.
(BHB)

Bottom line: when the manufacturers develop a recording that CANNOT be stolen and CANNOT be damaged, I'll quit using copies at my shows.

My company owns an original disc containing each and every song appeaering in our books, whether karaoke or playback. We have a karaoke library of about 20K songs. At Sound Choice's prices, that's an investment of $33,950. That is a LOT of money for a small business to risk losing and/or replacing.

I agree wholeheartedly with those who oppose buying and using burns on copyright grounds. What I don't understand or agree with is the assertion that shows should use originals and originals only. If the jock (or his company) pays for the original disc, and uses copies SOLELY to protect the investment, and not for profit, then I see no problem.

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Paid2Party
"I love karaoke. Where else can you get paid to come out and party with your friends?"

me either paid.

I've been to plenty of shows where the original disc has tons of problems, skipping, garbled graphics, etc.... when you have the means to protect that investment when it's still good, it's silly to think otherwise.

And I do agree with the Lonman... and if the manufacturers were able to replace ALL of their discs then this would be a moot point. But even the discs that were LEGAL at one point become illegal if a single song is rejected by the original copyright holder (linkin park, eagles, etc.) So if you're using originals and suddenly a mistake or hardware error happens... you're screwed!

Likewise, some of my library is extremely irreplacable. Pioneer and DK, all of which are not in production anymore.

I continue to purchase my product, despite the temptation to just download... because I personally am NO thief.

Matt

I agree that "illegal Copies" should not be tolerated but ANY WOrking KJ
SHOULD NOT RISK HIS INVESTMENT by using his original disks at a bar or even a private party where that collection would be at risk. I don't know of any bar where there isnt the occasional Inebriated moron who while singing his pancreas out and using his beer or drink as a counterbalance wouldnt or couldnt prevent that 16 0z of alcohol or sugar laden specialty drink from spilling onto your very expensive disks. not worth it!!!!
if you got the original make your copy, if it gets destroyed at least you can recover from losing that .25 cent blank, and get home and make urself another copy.

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A MUSICIAN FOR A ROCK COVER BAND: THE EMPTY POCKETS BAND, AND A KJ FOR 3 YEARS.
"Shut 'em up and give 'em an earful"

OK... I have a question for you. This has nothing to do with the legalities or moral issues of copying/burning your discs.

I'm not very Computer Literate, and I was under the impression that when you make a copy of a CDG, and then make a copy from a copy, and a copy from that, etc... that each copy would be of lesser quality (like when copying a Cassette or VHS tape). It was explained to me that this is not true with Copying/Burning CDGs, because it's all Digital.

That being said, here's my question.... With all this talk of backing up one's Library, and then using the Burns while protecting the originals at home, what difference does it make which set you use??? Once you copied/burned a disc, why not keep the burn at home and continue to use the original? If something happens to the original, you can then burn another copy from the copy and still keep one at home.

cue..... from what i understand, there is a slight (very slight) degradation in the copy, nothing you would ever notice..... however when you get to 3rd and 4th generation copies you may

#1 reason for leaveing the originals at home is theft.... If my CD case with my originals get stolen and i were to use my copied CD's I now have no proof of ownership of those originals.... where if my set of copies are stolen i am out the time of making a new set, cost of blanks, and sleeves and the CD case

The reason why, is if something happens to my originals (Theft, fire, traffic accident, my own neglect), then I no longer have legal right to the songs. It's kind of hard to justify owning a burn of an original that's charred charcoal!!!

and yes, the degredation is minimal PROVIDING the copy was made with optimum equipment. During the copy process, a glitch or two might occur, and if you make a copy of that copy, the very best you will get is a copy WITH that glitch.

I much prefer to make a copy of the original every time.