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Babs, now YOU are what I would call a REAL kj. Even though I've never met you, I can tell by the things you say in your posts, that I would like your show. By not compromising your integrity, just to work for some JERK, and staying true to who you are, and what you believe is RIGHT. Hope some day me and my girlfriend can make it south of the border to see you.

Srnitynow

This guy is a total jerk. His main interest is all about him looking like a big shot to his friends. I wouldn't work for him for $2000 a night. But how many KJs would jump at that show? If they didn't know or care or understand what that show will do to their reputation. I have turned down several jobs because of who the owner was and i knew how they act and expected to be treated. His motivation has no business building motive. He is not a good businessman. He wants to make friends and thinks by exerting his power over people is how to make money.

The only thing his actions will do is quickly kill the business. And that of any KJ that falls into his trap. Of the jobs i turned down working, they have had so many KJs it isn't funny. None of them has worked.

Pay attention now. The failure of the night and the KJs is
1. the fault of the bar owner wanting to run the karaoke show.
2. the KJs weren't the best KJs around
3. the KJs inability to recognise the danger of working for a bar owner like this. Regardless of how good you think the money or the job is.
4. The money turned out not to be worth it because the job didn't last. The bar owner i'm thinking of is in business trouble and he limited his business hours to just being open on Friday and Saturday nights. He is in over his head because he is stupid and has no business running a bar.
5. This bar owner is his own worst enemy and competition. Don't be fooled by him.

ANY KJ THAT THINKS WORKING FOR ANY BAR OWNER THAT WANTS TO RUN YOUR ROTATION IS AN IDIOT. You will be unemployed for much of your short career. Take that to the bank...or rather you won't have anything to take to the bank.

Work for that bar owner only if you absolutely, positively, desparately need the money to feed the babies. It won't last so make the money while it does. Don't expect any recommendations for more work. And don't expect your reputation to be undamaged. Take his money and run.

Wow that was super sweet of you. Your making the old girl blush.

I'd love to have you at my show. It would be an honor !



Angel - Oh my goodness do you know how to make a point. I really like it when I agree with you. I sure wish it was more often.

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Didn't mean to make you blush Babs, but I call it like I see it, and to me, it sounds like you know your stuff. Hope some day I get to attend your show.

Srnitynow

HERE'S WHAT I DID THURSDAY NIGHT!!!


I came extra early to my show in order to have time to speak with all the regulars. Thankfully, “the whiners” hadn’t given up on me and were there.

In general, my plan includes an extraordinary and ongoing effort on my part to create the impression with each person that I am excited to see them and that they are special to me and that they are an important part of my show!

Furthermore, I have started giving each person a slip that lists all of the songs they have sung at my show and suggestions for songs they may like to try that “I know they would be really good at”

I also bought a round of drinks for the table of whiners.

My plan also includes reserving one spot during the evening for me to sing and to use that turn to invite some of the whiners up to join me, thereby giving some of them another turn!

Lastly, I started my show 15 minutes early. That extra 15 minutes would provide most of the whiners, I hoped, the chance to sing one extra song before there regular departure time. I further hoped that if they hung around an extra 15 minutes beyond their usual departure time (which they did) all of them would be happy with their “turns at bat”.

Things pretty much went according to plan and the smiles on everyone’s faces when they said goodnight provided me with extreme satisfaction knowing my plan had worked!




Angel, regarding your preceding snide remarks: If I had wanted to limit my thinking to the obvious, I would have just PM’d you. From what I can see the only creative effort you are capable of is to change your name and gender. Nonetheless, you still suffer from fleas and one dimensional thinking. ARF ARF

Eric?

Did you not change your name too?

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First, there are a lot of invaluable tips and experience in this thread alone.

I've not been in business a year yet, so take my comments with a grain of salt...

Bar/restaurant owners are C-R-A-Z-Y. Every one I have dealth with has been I-N-S-A-N-E. They will try and undercut you, confuse you, and break you. It's your job to go in educated, determined to run a good show, and willing to walk away if you're being used/disrespected. Once you let a bar owner control you, you've given up your show; it's no longer your karaoke show... you just run it.

The same goes for whiners...

Whiners are trying to get you to bend to their will -- another power play. And from my experience, whiners add the least to your tips and bar receipts. Whiners will also tend to over time drive others out of your show.

Here's what I do with whiners... try and reel them in with personal attention... but if they continue whining, I drop them in the rotation late. Often they leave before their time to sing. This is my sign to them that whiners are not wanted or needed.

Now, before I banish someone to "the rotation pit," I try to find out from the bartender if they're good, consistent customers. If so, sometimes I'll make a big deal out of an oversight on my part in the rotation and get them up singing in a few singers (very very rare)... but again whiners are almost always bad tippers, buy few drinks, and complain complain complain...

Coming from film I'm reminded of stories about Brando... He would come onset and play power games with the director. If the director gave in, Marlon would be an impossible child through the entire production. If the director took control, Marlon would back down from the power play and simply do his job -- act. The same is karaoke -- show that you want to make this show successfull -- that you are dedicated to it -- but always show to the fans and the management that you are in control. Otherwise you'll be dealing with Brando until your movie wraps... which could be very soon.

Exactly. By caving in to the whiners by feeding them drinks and letting them sing more with or without you is a bad move.

Were all the other people sitting there "blind" to your little over showing of affection for certain people. You still showed favoritism to them and ignored the needs of the rest. The whiners now run your business and your wallet. They have you eating out of their hand. Good move. Chase away the non-whiners.

Kiss the reputation goodbye.

One more tip from my experience. Every singer watches every move of the KJ and the other singers. They didn't miss your slobbering and drink bribery tricks. But they did take mental notes so they could tell others about your new "friends" that you are taking care of.

Your ship is sinking, watch for the rats to bail.

For crying out loud Angel, why do you come on here and degrade people? I haven't seen one example of any kind of people skills. Many of us here go off a little but you just keep taking your little shots!

If you weren't at the show, you don't know what went down. How do you know what others perceived of the new game plan? Tov will let us know.

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Because that is all she is here for, to stir crap! Trust me, it won't be for much longer if continues.

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It is possible that this was done before the others arrived so no favortism was observed. The little bit of extra attention and explanation may have done the trick to make the whiners feel that their concerns were aknowledged. Maybe they even were happy with the explanation and won't turn into monsters. Only time will tell.

I'm not trying to stir anything. And i resent the implication.

The question was has anyone experienced this? EVERY KJ with 1 month experience has.

Buying drinks for some singers and not for all "looks" suspicious. Letting people sing before and after the show "looks" suspicious. Giving some more singing privledges than others "looks" suspicious.

Now everyone answer this.

Would you do it?

If you did, what was the outcome? How fast did you stop doing it?

My experience has shown that all of these little things will and do cause major problems. If your experiences say different then what are they?

There is nothing personal going on here. My replies would be the same to anyone and everyone asking this question friend or enemy. These kind of stunts hurt your reputation. If you don't care about your reputation then do whatever you want. But when you ask a question be prepared for all sides of the issue. Not just the side that best lends to your motives. Opposing information is not a personal attack.

SINGERS NOTICE (SEE) EVERYTHING, GOOD AND BAD.

Is there at least one other experienced KJ that can verify this statement?

Oftentimes, it's not so much WHAT you say as HOW you say it.
It's much like tone of voice as you tried to point out in another post.
When it comes to getting it wrong, though, you're batting 1000.


As for buying the "whiners" a drink or two, etc. Maybe it was done in a way that the others don't know. Perhaps he had the waitress bring it over and quietly tell them. You just don't know all the circumstances, so you can't judge.
I often buy my friends drinks and no one bats an eye. They are my personal friends so it's only logical and no one's nose gets out of joint over it. They do not get treated differently in any other way. They wait their turn in rotation like anyone else. And this is what the others see and what matters to them. I see the custies buying drinks for their friends and I don't expect them to buy me or my friends drinks anymore than they expect me to buy theirs.
As for those tactics at quieting the "whiners", I think it's brilliant if it makes them happy. They won't necessarily abuse it and it may be all that's needed to shut them up.
Good luck!

His name was Blackford and he weighed 275 pounds of solid muscle. He was the a gentle giant and wouldnt hurt a flea. He was a ship fitter aboard The Little Rock and was one of those welders who could join any 2 metals forever.
I was on shore patrol in Athens Greece or somewhere and the brits came up in a vehicle and said one of your cowboys is in trouble.

We jumped in and 3 blocks down the street was Blackie about 8 big cops and a couple of shorepatrol that didnt know whats to do. They were trying to force him into a paddy wagon and wasnt having very much success doing it. There was a Salvation marching band standing there.

I ran over and asked Blackie with a grin wat the hell is goin on? He said I was sitting there drinking beer (outside sidewalk table) and I finally figured out he walked out into the middle of the street Threw up his big arms and wanted them to play Alexanders Ragtime Band. They didnt speak english and was petrified.

I started cracking up in hysterical laughter. A cop that that could speak english I took him over to the band and explained to them what was happening. Then they understood and laughed.

One does not get in a drunks face and satrt demanding or spouting rules. You have to be gentle and handle everybody on ONE ON ONE BASIS. You can be firm but do not engage in their arguing.

One of my worst drunks and whiners. He was a Hispanic who was well dressed and with his girl friend who was almost sober. I went to his table put my arm around him and said JOSE!! You are not driving are you? I looked at her and asked do you have the keys? Then I said you are too drunk to sing or drink anymore We want you to get home safe. He turned into a lamb. I saw him several times later and he always came up and shook my hand.

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I see nothing wrong with starting a few minutes early. I've done things like that before, but it's always for singers I care about - not whiners. But if your gig depends on it and it's important to you - yeah I can see doing something like that. I wouldn't have bought them drinks though.

This is the pizza parlor thread isn't it? I can't remember and didn't go back to look. Anyway if it is I wouldn't plan on a long run there anyway. You can get a feel for these things after just a short time and this owner is too anal about his immediate bottom line.

Heck I gave some of my best regulars a night on me back last March. It was on an open Friday in my home room and I didn't have an outside job that night either. I didn't charge the owner for it in exchange for the place keeping the prices where they are with no entertainment. It was by invitation only. The singers invited were the ones that really got the show off the ground. We were trying something completely different and they were the ones who were always there from beginning to end every night, singing material that we wanted to feature, and tirelessly promoting the show in their Myspace pages and with anyone who would listen. It was payback time.



Somewhat. Like all of us I get singers who continuously stare at the stage and watch my every move, and singers with a social life who don't. Fortunately I have more of the latter group by far. They don't scrutinize my every move at all but trust me to take care of them fairly, which of course I do.

Our singers now are more sophisticated. they grew up with karaoke machines and it is not their religion or the major purpose for going out. They are attracted to the better systems and enjoy them. If they ar smoking or on their cell it is hey skip me this time..

We have evolved into a different format. While we can still come into your venue and provide a basic karaoke format, there are very few here that could satisfy our crowds. If you look at my age to the left you might surmise that I have run about every show there is including those before karaoke.

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I don't buy drinks for anyone. I don't want to get into the "you own me or owe me" thing. I have custies that want to buy me drinks all the time. I turn them all down because i drink for free. I don't want them thinking they are doing me a favor when it's just wasting their money.

I don't need to have someone else drinking up my profits. I have a singer that only drinks alcohol if someone else buys. I'm not into supporting others habits and the most important thing...

What if the drink you buy them is the one that puts them over the top and they drive home and kill someone? I would feel horrible and guilty. Not to mention LIABLE.

I want to explain this better. Since you are in the bar working any lawyer worth their salt can easily convince the jury that you were indeed an employee of the bar. Look what you just did to the owner. You made him liable too.

I eliminate as much personal liability as posible. If they get drunk, it's not on me. No blood on my clean hands.

You have yourself a tough situation. It is my experience that restaurant venues don't usually work out well, unless they are turning it more into a bar atmosphere at night, serving a lot of alcohol.

As far as "whiners" are concerned, I am having a little trouble with that myself lately, so I will tell you how I am trying to deal with it. First of all, regulars are my biggest whiners, and I have a few that sit there and watch how many drinks people are buying, even have been at their table writing down the rotation order. I guess so they can "supervise" on how I am doing at my job...Isn't that nice of them Anyway, it can be disheartening to see "regulars" walk out or stop coming, especially in your situation, where you feel that the show depends on their attendance. But don't sell yourself short by catering especially to them. I have made this mistake already, and believe me, it ends up being expected of you. And when you don't continue catering to them, they cuss you out in front of everyone and disrespect you. Because bottom line is this. They don't really appreciate you anyway. They will like you and continue frequenting your show as long as you are catering to them. (And I can say all of this from the bottom of my heart. I am SOOO dealing with it right now.) Here's the deal. This crowd of 4 couples are fussing about this new crowd right now. It's like their "flavor of the week". If the new crowd quits coming, they will find something else they are not happy about. It is not your job to monitor how much everyone is spending. Nor is it your job to dilly out turns accordingly. It is so important to maintain a reputation of being fair.

One thing I would do is explain to them that I am doing a job, and I am too busy to keep my eye on these things as well. Basically, if I am doing the math correctly, they are being very selfish. If they only stay for two hours and there are 8 of them, and they would each like to sing twice while they are there, then they want to take up most of the two hours....like an hour and 20 minutes of it!! That is asking a lot unless they want to stay longer. Maybe you should try explaining this to them. If you allow them to do this, it makes you appear that you are showing excessive favoritism, and unless they are spending enough themselves to keep your show running, then there isn't a way to do what they are asking you to do, because you will lose everyone else in the process. That's how I see it.

BTW, no one in the bar is irreplaceable. If they quit coming, they will leave a seat that someone else will fill. Maybe you should present your dilemma to the owner, presenting how you feel about the situation and see if it helps you. If this show is dependent on 8 people, it probably won't make it anyway, no matter how good you are. It's no reflection on you.

When you run your show, be fair and honest and don't sell yourself short for others. EVER!! That way, you can lay your head down at night and know you did the best you could do. You don't have to feel guilty or ashamed for anything you did. Keeping a venue isn't worth feeling like you treated someone unfairly. Treat them fair. If they don't like it, it's called selfish, and they have to lie down with that. You don't. Good luck with it. Let us know how it turns out for you. Our jobs present us with some tough situations sometimes!

OOPS!! I started posting before I read the whole thread by accident. So my post was a little behind. Oh well, I still hope it works out for you, no matter what you decide to do.

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