Karaoke Forums

One of the reasons why I am for anynomous ranking where only the admin can poll them is exactly what is sitting on one of "MY" subs "In America" a score of 1 and no comment. and what's so ironic is this has appered now 6 times from the same singer.... that's really why I don't like recieving ranking but opened it up for just that song. revenge rankings and the people who cant take a real honest critique. Revenge ranking at it's worst. when the song was well recieved. atleast if the person wanted to score it down I woulnd't quack about a 5. I would get thier point at a 5.

But giving a 1 shows how insecure or jealous they are when several have given a person 10's with many positive forms of feedback. I score to what I feel is an honest score, to my abilities and expierence. based on the the guidelines presently out. (now that actually there are some)

I know the admin is working thier A$$es off to make us happy, but I guess some just can't be satisified.. well I guess they just need to let us know who they are... and we just won't score them at all.

Personally for me, I can use that yes or no buttons for ranking, when submitting. But it also takes responsibility on the other end to rank properly and give approperate feedback.

_________________
Brian D.
(BHB)

GEE Thanx

At this point the vote is 33% against & 66% for the proposed new ranking system.

Many have voted without leaving a comment, and guess what I know who you are. The polls are only annonymous to the members not the mods! :) Of course, including those who have provided comments this is only a small percentage of all the members who participate in the Singer's Showcase.

I would like to hear everyones' opinion whether it is for or against. Feedback from you is what allows us to provide you with the site that you want.
(Within Reason Of Course)

Speaking of anonymous, I received an email from someone who wishes that I keep their identity secret. They had a good idea and I wanted to share it & get your thoughts on this.

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Ranking would be a priveledge provided only to the Paid members who have submitted at least one song.
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(Why you would pay and not submit, I don't know,?!)

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

By the way we are developing two new levels of membership.
Here is a list of all levels:

STANDARD

Free
3 MB File Size
5 Songs Archived
1 Song Daily Uplaod

PLUS (New)

$5 Monthly or $12.50 Quarterly
3.5 MB File Size
10 Songs Archived
2 Song Daily Upload

DELUXE (Modified)

$10 Monthly or $25 Quarterly
5 MB File Size
25 Song Archive
5 Song Daily Upload <-- increased from 3

PREMIUM (New)

$20 Monthly or $50 Quarterly
7 MB File Size
40 Song Archive
10 Song Daily Upload

Note: Current, Premium Members will become Deluxe.)

What do you think of those?

If you have any ideas or comments, I'd love to hear them.

Phill

Phill,
If it's not too much to ask, Is there a possible alternate system to paypal? like Charging Direct to C.C. by contact to the ADMIN by secure means?

If that can be arranged....Please PM me directly.

It would be real nice.

P.S. I like the Anonymous Idea.. first lets get the membership issue worked out.

_________________
Brian D.
(BHB)

My god, how in the world to give a "yes" or "no" vote.

I like the idea of seeing who gave what score, and why. BUT, I think some people score 10's just to "not offend" someone, or to get that person to give them 10's in return. So, maybe it would be nice to just get an average overall score.

But, if you think that's gonna make everyone score honestly, it aint gonna happen. There would be so many "under 5" scores for revenge I think. Especially since nobody would know who it was.

Well, nobody but you Phill. And you know what? I've been on here over 2 hours straight listening to subs, and still haven't heard NEAR all of the new ones from the last few days. Are you going to be able to monitor that many comments every day? I mean, for every song subbed, there's an average of what- 7/8 comments? I don't see how you could. I think we're asking you to do too much there.

I think to change it would let the devious people be more devious than ever, unless Phill wants to be on here 24/7 watching scores. I think I would say leave it the way it is, or get rid of the ranking all together. It's the comments that count anyhow. So, I'll go vote now.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

BSS - Good Point!

BTW - I am not the only mod... Just the only one that contibutes... (Sorry folks, {referring to the moderators} just had to get that in)

Another idea, we create the vote system, similar to that the was attempted in the forums (btw - I think, I'm going to remove those posts. They don't seem to be catching on)

Those that wish to be ranked (by checking the box when submitting) will be entered into a weekly TOP 10 LIST. These songs cannot be DELETED until the week is up. Then every month the Top Ten of the week are entered into a monthly list. Voting is only allowed for week submitted. Then the monthly Top ranked song is Featured on a Monthly Winner Page and receive two additional song submissions. One to replace the one used, plus one additional.

Does that make sense??

Comments will still be available during any of this time.

I have not completely worked this out but I think this is doable!

Phill

Okay, not to be a caffeine pill, but............

Top 10 by open ranking or anonymous ranking? Or voting a poll of our favorite Top 10 (like the old "Top 5 " thing)?

This idea sounds alot more fair, to all those out there who wish to be ranked & see where they line up. It's still gonna cause a little this-n-that from certain people, but you're not gonna get away from that.(or this?!?!?)

Okay, someone is getting a little tired! Enough from me, I'm game for whatever you all decide. This site is alot of fun any way ya look at it.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

If/When this rating system change is implemented, will the ranks be reset to "level the playing field" or will it affect only subs posted after the change is implemented? If all subs are affected as a result of the change, I suggest all ranks (with comments) be converted to only comments and remain.

Suggestion:
Subs with the most comments and/or listens (can that be tracked?) be listed higher on the current lists... or create another list: "Hot Submissions" or "Popular Submissions"

Your comments?

I like the Top 10 list Idea.. it's a Yes vote here...

P.S. swing this up the Totem pole.. How about...Top 3 of the month gets "showcase" airplay on "That's Karaoke"??? as a monthly prize????

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Brian D.
(BHB)

What about the option for paid members to publicly or privately rank ?
(Ranked: *Private* comment:)

Hopefully *Private* ranks subjected to Moderator approval will cut down on revenge ranking.. and allow paid members to rank how they really feel about a sub without worry of hurting the members feelings. Remember, there's still the comment box for CONSTRUCTIVE comments.

I'm trying to think of variations.. I know there's not a way to please everyone.. but hopefully we can come up with some alternatives / compromises that the majority can agree with.

Your thoughts?

Thanks,
JW |;>

JW,
I had put up a variation of that.. aparently it fell upon deaf ears. hopefully yours goes farther...

_________________
Brian D.
(BHB)

Phil -

I have 10+ years of online community development/management experience.. mostly for AOL. . . and I have to say that you're doing an Incredible job! You listen.. You're responsive..you weigh the pros/cons and you implement quickly... which shows you truly care.

I'm just curious.. How many Mods are there and how are they selected?

Thanks,
JW |;>

Phil - You know my vote. Thanks for taking the time and energy to make the pitch and implement.

PS... the new membership hiearchy seems fair to me.

Phill,

Great Job!!!

Margie and I thank you and everyone else that contributes to this site.

Just an idea...

3 categories to choose from.

1. JUST FOR FUN ... Comments, no rank

2. TOP TEN OF THE WEEK ... Each member gets 1 vote/week, no comments.

3. CRITIQUE ... Volunteer panel, with qualifications (ie..degree in music, sound engineer, etc.)willing to give a fair evaluation. Phill and mods to oversee panel.

Cort
MC Entertainment

Cort,

That's another GREAT Idea!!!

_________________
Brian D.
(BHB)

Cort,

Your '3 categories' idea is clear, concise and the BEST one that I've heard yet

This method not only puts the choice back into the hands of the singer as to how he/she would like to be heard but it releases the listener of undue pressure on ranking/commenting.

Using this particular categorizing leaves no room for misinterpretation of the wants and needs of the singer.

Thanks Cort, for reading between the lines of all the posts and and wisely seeing what was really there all the time

/HUGS,
Emma

Note: I'd still like to see how many hits a sub gets regardless of which category I choose.

_________________
In front of a mirror with a hairbrush in my hand...SING!!!!!

Now we're really getting some ideas. Thanks everyone for the great feedback! You folks are wonderful. I am glad to see that we have so many interested parties.

Let me think these over and see what I can come up with.

Three catagories - Hmmm

Upon submission the singer can choose one of the options:
1) Just for Fun - similar to what we have available currently with the don't rank option (comments only)

2) Top Ten - These will be the songs that are submitted with the ranking option selected. I think these should still have comments. However, ranks will be not be individually displayed. Only the overall rank for the week (7 days). After that they are available as comment only.
{I need to figure out how I will be able to correctly calculate these.}
The Top Ten will displayed on the Top Songs page, these must receive 5 ranks minimum to be considered in the top. With a secondary Ranking option for choice of top song of the month.

3) Critique - this sounds rather difficult, how do we determine who is qualified to give an accurate evaluation that is fair to everyone?

What if we (all members) select ten people who volunteer from our current members - that will be on the panel for three months.

These Panel members will have to be active on a weekly basis in order to maintain that status. Then each quarter we will have a new selection of Panel members. Current Panel Members can remain if so selected and they wish to be considered.

Then I add a check box upon submission that the singer can select when submitting that says "Please Critique"

Then a new section will be available only to the submittor to see the panels comments. ->No reply button and the panel member will be anonymous, unless they choose to reveal their identity in the comments.
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Time for another Poll
Who should Rank the songs:
1) Weekly & Monthly by Paid Members Only
2) Weekly by Paid Members & Monthly by All
3) Weekly by All Members & Monthly by Paid
4) Weekly & Monthly by All Members
5) Weekly by Paid Members & Monthly by Panel <-- My Choice
6) Weekly by All members & Monthly by Panel
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I think we should give the panel members some type of power because not everyone will wish to be critiqued.
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Also, to comment on JW's point. I think when we implement the new system, all current submissions will have the ranks removed.

Whew - I probably missed a couple of other good points. What are your thoughts on the above?

Phill
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btw - currently the moderators are staff members of Karaoke Scene. I was considering seeing if we could open up the moderator positions to highly active members in the forums who are selected by the current KS Staff.

Hi Phil



Very good idea, and I agree that the panel should be choosen by the members by a fair voting system. Here's my suggestion.

You open a voting page with all members names available.
Member can select 10 names, but not his/her own.(members must login in order to vote, that way you can disable their own name on the page)
Once a member has voted, he/she has no read/write access to this page anymore (prevent multiple voting)
Give it a week and the 10 people with the highest voting scores become your panel for the quarter.
Viola, there's your fair and square Critique Panel!

I think that if people are also going to be voted in, they should have to supply a short resume of some sort as to why they think they would make a good panelist/critique person.

If there is going to be someone giving me honest feedback (which I do like), I at least would like to have the knowledge that they will be able to back it up with technical knowledge and experience.

I personally don't think I would make a good panelist as I don't have any experience to back it up. I could not say what is "technically" wrong with a song. I just like what I hear or don't like what I hear.

I would definately start submitting songs and coming back to the site more and listening if this actually went through. I think it is a great idea and makes you actually feel that submitting a song is worth something, not just a bunch of 10's and, hey graet sub comment.

I do agree with # 5 but should be chosen by the mods on a varafiable resume'. just like applying for any professional position.. and to those doing the critiqueing cannot be elegible sing to be in that same catagory.

I think that would be as fair idea as it comes.

_________________
Brian D.
(BHB)

Both BeachHeadBum and ritisroo have a good point with the resume. I would though like to see a verifiable resume example though. That, I think won't be that easy to obtain.

First of all, who will verify all the resumes send in by the members? Secondly, what do you write in your resume??? I have been a KJ for X years, run a recording studio????? How big must the studio be in order to qualify? Does being a KJ for x years make you a good KJ?

How about this..........
Phil, you know what you're talking about. Here's a thought. Invite all members that want to become part of the panel to send you a PM. Then you put out a song or 2 and ask these people to give their critique on the songs. You can take current songs from the SS or record new ones. You then decide who has the ability to judge. Critique given should be read only by yourself so that Mr. X cannot use Mr. Y's information.