Karaoke Forums

I've been running karaoke at a local bar for the last three months and the crowd is up and down (one week gangbusters and the next week a ghost town)-- but we've had more down than up lately. I run a solid show and push the event and venue as much as possible, but... the bar is unwilling to do any real advertising (banner, poster, print ad) or even run a drink special; they won't even hang the banner they already own across the front of the bar! The bar manager agrees that the bar is dropping the ball, but the owner wants me to build a profitable karaoke night quickly without advertising -- except Craigslist and facebook -- or any help from the venue. Earlier this week -- when the owner said there would be no drink specials -- I learned just how this was going to go down: in a month or two she's going to try and renegotiate me to $75/week or 40% of the take (as she did another KJ)... or just cancel karaoke and blame me. Add this to a big group of 20 somethings that come to the bar already drunk, that don't buy drinks, and that yell over the mics how much they miss the old KJ while thrashing the equip... Aargh! Granted, I'm smarting right now and wanting to pull the cord early, but I'm looking to make my exit from this bar. This place is feeling like bad news...

Leave.


If it was strictly the first part ( no advertising), many venues won't because

1) They don't feel karaoke's image is matches their "high-class" extablishment ( though they'll take the money fast enough)


2) Sometimes they don't want their insurer to find out for fear of rate increases.

3) They don't want problems with BMI/ASCAP, etc....


However, given your other infotmation- if solid- and your own bad feelings about the place, I would leave - quickly.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I would definately look for a new place to play, this place is going NOWHERE fast. I would rather see my equipment sit in my living room collecting dust than to play for $75.00. I've seen the same type of attitude in my area, but it's up to you if you put up with it or not. Under NO circumstances do I allow anyone to abuse my equipment. If that's the only type of singers that come in this place, I wouldn't even wait for the owner to get rid of me, I'd pack up my stuff, and tell them to look for another karaoke host.

Srnitynow

Leave!

I agree. If you really have the feeling that the owner is going to play that way, leave on your own terms so he can't say he got ridof you because you weren't as good as you are.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

40% of the take sounds pretty good for the entertainment to me.

Maybe Im in a over-saturated area, but some bars here only give 7.5%.
I have also made $120 a night at some shows at that rate, so at 40% it would be 500-600 a night, and no one should complain about that.

If you can get a good show going with 20-40 people in the bar 40% could be a gold mine.

Considering they have to pay for everything else out of the other 60%...

If you think that you would get $75 instead of the 40% you are not pulling enough people into the bar for them to stay open and pay for entertainment.

Well, the bar averages 30 - 40 people on karaoke night. Lastweek I had a rotation of 30 people and probably averaged 50 in the bar. The problem is not the numbers. The problem is this crowd doesn't buy many drinks (as I mentioned, most of the people coming out to karaoke are drinking at home first). So, a new crowd needs to be found... and that can only come in the short-term through advertising...

My post may have been unclear. The bar owner gave another KJ this offer: $75/night or 40% of the take if it's less than $75.

I wouldn't start my van for $75 a night.
I would definitely find another venue.
What can they expect if they won't do their part in advertising?
I would make it clear to them that they MUST advertise if they want their sales up. Otherwise, take a walk.

If you need the money, and money you are currently earning is worth the hassel, then if it was me I would stay.

I much rather take money from someone I don't like than someone I do.

If possible can you speak to the owner? Discuss the situation with him and see what you both can do. I certainly would not consider a pay cut unless both I and the venue are doing their best to make things work. Sometimes certain venues take longer to get going, and If the owner is doing their best then Yes I would take a lower rate of pay.

Is their a way you can "train" the customers to treat your equipment with more respect? and/or encourage them to spend more (food etc). Is it possible to get the bar manager on side and kick out the non spenders (who are already drunk).

I doubt a venue with a history will affect your reputation, if you get pushed. I pulled in an excellent crowd in a venue with a bad rep and it has done nothing for my CV, people see the bar name and don't care one way or another how well i did there.

Instincts are a wonderful thing to trust, but don't always pay the bills.

Edited to add: keep you eye out for another venue.

Give this owner your 2 weeks.

She wants to DO NOTHING to help promote it.

Additionally the custies are being ABUSIVE to both YOU AND THE EQUIPMENT and the bar is TOLERATING IT(may even be promoting it). Barstaff(Mgr etc) are doing NOTHING to limit this behavior and may even be egging the drunks on!!

Owner wants YOU TO DO EVERYTHING to promote HER BAR, HER BUSINESS, HER INCOME, HER MONEY....while(if i understand it correctly) trying to come at you to take a REDUCTION.

You are only 1 person in this operation and can only do so much. NONE OF THE OTHER PEOPLE in the operation are willing to LIFT A FINGER TO MAKE IT SUCCESSFUL.

Owner has already made the statement that in a month she might just pull the plug anyway.

On second thought dont even give them your 2-week.
Just tell them your done there and wont be in and needs to find another DJ. Then they will respond by saying "THank u very much---last night is your final night--no 2 week needed".

Its clear they ar not willing to do anything at THIS BAR, to support Karoake nor SUPPORT YOUR EFFORTS TO MAKE IT SUCCESSFUL.

CLEARLY this situation and the owner is BAD NEWS.

Quit on YOUR OWN TERMS and CALL YOUR OWN SHOTS.
Do not be AFRAID of this owner or any repercussions

END OF STORY..

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

There are alot of bar owners that will lowball their tape to pay less. If you do stay and agree to 40% of the tape insist on seeing the tape and doing your own math. Also insist on a contract spelling it out so that if he renigs you have a basis to recoup what he owes you.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Suggest that the owner institute a minimum purchase policy on karaoke nights - say $10 to $15. That tends to weed out those who will not spend.



That would have me raising a finger for him/her/it. The middle one.

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Dave's not here.

Kai,
if you like the extra money per week Stay. If you don't...go Continue to look for a new gig and if you get one ... Hasta La Vista.
If you don't find one .. what's wrong with taking the extra money until it runs out and they let you go ?

Bar owners are not always the sharpest knife in the drawer and they won't advertise. Why ? I don't know.... dumb!

Jason

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Jason Christopher
Want To Learn How To Grow An Outrageously Profitable KJ Business And Put An Iron Cage Around Your Customers? visit my web site below..

It sounds to me like you are correct in your assumption that this place is going to be bad news. There is no support from management to any extent, whether it's advertising or crowd control. I don't think it would be unfair to assume that the management and bar staff are aware that you are being treated rudely and disrespectfully. None of that is worth this gig, especially if you aren't confident that it will continue. The pride in me would want to quit before I got "let go". I would definately look for a more rewarding place to play. Unless you are in great need of the money, it's not worth it to stay.

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It's called Karaoke Therapy...

Stay, take the money, and get yourself a replacement gig. Put the word out you're looking. I'm on facebook, myspace, my own web page, and I have an email list. If I'm looking I put the word out, and let the venue find me. I haven't walked into a bar to promote myself in over a year.

If you're new to the scene you may want to put together a portfolio to hand out to bars and go looking. Don't be discourage by the rejection, but pay attention to whose around you. Activity, breeds activity, and the act of looking will work for you...

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

Yikes! That will go over like a lead balloon. It might well be that many patrons plan on spending $10-$15 (or more!) but as a customer, to require that would p!$s me off bigtime.

I only want to work for bar owners that are partners in the promotion of ALL of their events. Karaoke is not the red-headed stepchild.

That's why BEFORE taking a new gig, I sit down with the owner and discuss their plan for getting the word out about their karaoke night. Is it on their website? Table tents? Posters? Advertising?

It's the same thing about owners who want to know how big your "following" is - i.e. how many "instant" customers are you going to bring me?

As for what to do in this no win situation where management won't put any promotional support behind their karaoke night? Get a paycheck as long as you can until they want to "renegotiate". If the terms aren't favorable (40% of nothing is still nothing) time to move on!

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

I advise against giving this place advance notice. Giving notice is a courtesy extended in ending professional business relationships. From what you've said, they are NOT acting professionally or courteously to you. They are already trying to blame you for revenue problems and their unwillingness to advertise.
I also doubt they would give you any kind of favorable recommendation or reference, so why give them notice? It's not like you would return to this venue if you can find another gig.
And if you give notice, I suspect they would let you play a final night and then stiff you.
I would try to secure another gig, then play your final night and receive your pay, and then tell them you won't be back. Sounds brutal, but you must look out for yourself first.

Unfortunately, this probably won't be your last run-in with this type of bar manager/owner. It always helps to spell things out in advance with a venue, but even that doesn't mean the bar will come through with its part.

Good luck.

I just had the (almost) same experience you had. I started karaoke at a local bar which I have been going to for over 10 years now. Place was always dead on a Friday Night and I suggested to bar owner that we should try a karaoke/dj night on Friday night and see how it goes. This was back in May and I started at 170.00 for a four hour gig which I always played for 6 hours because the group I had come in was mostly friends and family, who was having a good time, spending money, and always begged me to stay till 2:00 - two hours past my quitting time which I never asked for more money. Two months into the gig, the bar owner said they really weren't making any money (which I know was not true because the night time manager said they were making a killing on Friday Nights since I started there) so they asked me if I would lower my price to 125.00 which I agreed to. But my offer was if the bar started making money I wanted my orginal offer of 170.00 to be reinstated. They approached me just this past Monday and informed me that they wanted me to split my Friday Night with another KJ host who wanted to come in and do Friday Nights. I though about it and went in Tuesday and told them I would not compete with another KJ and that this Friday is my last night. They said okay, hope there are no hard feelings. No hard feelings, they have to be kidding. I established this Friday Night and now I find out this KJ (who is a nephew of the bar owners good friend) begged the bar owner to let him come and take over the crowd that I have worked hard since May to establish. What can I say, I'm not going to be taken advantage of so I said see ya. I'm out of here and I can tell you the crowd that I have been bringing in is 90% close friends and family. They are coming tonight and that's it. So the bottom line with me is that I can really use the money but I'm not going to be treated this way by anyone. Also, the bar owner left all the advertisement to me and refused to hang up signs or advertise. Oh well, time to move on!! Good luck with your decision and I hope things work out for you no matter what you personally decide is best for you!

kai

How would you rate the other "reasons" someone who frequent that place
FOOD- if they serve ..until what time is the kitchen open?
PRICES - compared to other bars and restaurants
BARTENDER- friendly ? pretty? etd
WAITERS /service
PARKING - ?

Sometimes just changing one of the above could turn the who night around .....

Kai,
First of all, I concur with those who suggest that you might as well find another venue, if possible, before quitting!

What I feel compelled to make note of is the attitude among singers and KJ's that so devalues what we do! Most KJ's claim they don't know and don't want to know about what anyone spends at their shows. Some, as noted above, are even adverse to a minimum purchase. Some KJ's will recommend that you move on when the economics so dictate rather than try to solve the problem.

My kids go to clubs that all have cover charges. Some may be just $5 but that's for a DJ using house equipment! Meanwhile, I can't recall any KJ on the forum mentioning that there is a cover at their show! I go to cabarets that have $10 minimum purchases.

As a businessman, and I hope you consider yourself to be one, you should be able to recognize at this point that you have NOTHING to lose if there is a cover charge for your show. If the owner doesn't want to institute one, and you are determined to leave anyway, start charging $5 a singer (for the night) and put the $5 in YOUR "pocket".

That will either hasten your demise or turn things around in your favor. If it works, naturally, the owner will want the $5 and that will give you negotiating room. Hell, $5 times 30 singers is more than you're getting now!

Best of luck

BTW, I just don't get those who go out for an evening that are adverse to a paying a MINIMUM, I also don't get being adverse to a cover charge, BUT AVERSION TO A $10 MINIMUM? You can't go most places these days without spending $7-8 for breakfast!