Karaoke Forums

The attempt to satisfy everyone is commendable but it sure is complicating things. A select panel of amateurs critiqueing their amateur peers hmmm, dos'nt give me a warm fuzzy. There is no way to qualify this panel because it is all subjective and perceptive. Commenting is a personal opinion. Critiqueing means that the person criqueing has some form of mastery of a discipline that qualifies them. if the panel does not have this is is a commented opinion. So whats the point? karaoke clubs don't have the audiance and a select critque panel to prevent feelings from being hurt. I think annonymous rateing is fine. A critique panel is just gonna make this issue bigger. keep it simple. Anonnymous rateings, yes. Only paid members should be able to rate songs that has the top 10 button selected. All can give their opinonated comment. Maybe what we need is a no comment button along with the no rate button for performers with thin skins but be prepared to get few listens from anyone other than your friends and family. Sounds fair to me.

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Singing is not just FUN. It's THERAPY!

Whoa - This is getting rather heated.

What I was thinking is that all members vote for 10 people who have offered to be members of the Panel.

Those who wish to be selected will submit a short description of why they want to be a Panel Member and explain how they would be just and fair to those that they would offer advice. This will be presented on a separate page called Panel Members.

There would be the option for each member to vote for the member only once and up to 10 members.

The position as Panel Member would be completely Voluntary (therefore without Compensation.) I believe the decision as to who are Panel Members should be by a vote of the members. This way you select who you want on the Panel.

The Karaoke Scene Staff (including myself) will not make the decision. However, we will moderate how the Panel Members perform. If we feel that they are not acting in the best manner toward fellow members we may remove them as Panelists.

Phill

I am loving the feedback, keep it coming...

Folks...
(reading into Allstar's & songaddict's replies)
Before this gets blown out of proportion...
As much as I really like this intention, I don't plan on attempting to become a part of this panel.. But I really do want to have the best skilled and the "Best Qualified" members on the showcase on it, and be absolutely as fair as it could possibly be for everyone.

My 2 cents worth...

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Brian D.
(BHB)

I also believe that this brainstorming session is being very productive and it shows how much many of us care about this site. Personally, I have always believed that simplicity is the key to having the most fun possible. Once we start complicating things the fun starts to fade away. I am very concerned about the TIME and EFFORT that is going to be required to implement all the new good ideas. Somehow I get the feeling that you'll have to be unemployed to handle some of the responsabilities mentioned here. I don't see how one can have a full time job, family, and time to sing, record and listen to all the subs in the site????
Yes, the abuses of the ranking system are rampant and obvious to anyone with a good ear. Still, with the new ranking guide from Phill, the 10's keep coming way above any other rank. It is good that we are still trying to come up with a better way.
The casual atmosphere of the comments and reply feature, was what really attracted me to become a paid member. I know I've been able to improve by some comments and I know I've been able to help some of you with mine. That's why I consider that to be a great asset to this site. Having an honest exchange of opinions and ideas about our subs right on the spot with other members, makes it exciting and interesting.
If that is taken away, IMO the site will loose its charm and warmth.
I'll go along with whatever you decide about the rankin situation but please, try to keep it as simple as possible because after all, many of us don't care that much about ranks.The main reason for us to be here should be to express ourselves throu the songs we sing and share them with others with the same interest as ours. Evidently, the subliminal message behind rankings is COMPETITION. I am not here to compete with anybody but as in any democracy, I will let the majority decide and live with it.

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I dream of songs of love, peace and harmony.

Okay, I've tried really hard to hold my breath on this. (or my keyboard, whatever, )
Normally I wouldn't open up this large of a can of worms on a riverbank, but.......
I have to agree with what songaddict says. Everyone here is an amateur when it comes to actually critiqueing someone else's stuff. Commenting and giving honest opinions is one thing, but being qualified to say "Here's the bottom line, here is what you need to change" may differ from listener to listener. That kind of thing is what the professional music industries out there are for, for a fee they'll critique you properly. They do it for a living. This is just karaoke. And, some may have a glowing musical "resume", but still not be a very good singer themselves. And while I like anybody & everybody's opinion on here, the really really good singers comments' are the ones I take to heart. Because they are ON key, and they KNOW timing & such.
Or, the KJ's I think would be good judges based on the fact that day in and day out they hear tons of people singing, so they can compare you to the average karaoke singer.
I for one would never sub a song for anything but "Just for Fun". That way I can go on as I am now, getting "comments only" from people who happen to stop & listen.
To me, to submit for critique would be just the opinions & comments of 10 more people on the website.
Any-who. It will be interesting to watch & see what happens. I think next we'll have a fight over who did vs. who didn't get picked to be judges.
And nobody draw out their claws on my comment here, it's just my opinion, like everyone else's. (Mr. Guru, your honor sir-remember I said that, I'm not trying to get another topic locked )

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Charmin..
I am in full agreement here too.. I see this one coming a mile away...

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Brian D.
(BHB)

With regard to #2 TOP TEN:

1. Singer can only submit 1 song per week for TOP TEN.
2. Singer cannot vote for self.
3. Member has three votes (picks 3 favorite submissions).
4. NO COMMENTS
5. Songs in TOP TEN listed by total vote

#3 CRITIQUE

To a degree I agree with songaddict, most people go to a Karaoke show to have fun. I also agree that most who would volunteer are amatures, maybe semi-pro. As KJ's for the past several years, we always refer a singer who is looking to improve to a vocal & sound studio for professional help. That being said, what are we going to Critique?

1. The quality of the recording (dependent on the original Karaoke track)... the mix, how well equalized, effects..
2. The Vocal quality... On key, timeing, vibrato, emotion...

I like Allstar's idea about a test drive. Have a couple of volunteers put up a song to Critique. Those interested in being on the Panel could state their backround and do a critique. Let the members decide based on an actual critique if the volunteer is acceptable. Keep the panel open and honest.

Like Choice #3..

weekly all, monthly paid..
Keep the panel independent

Cort
MC Entertainment

p.s. Love ya Emma ... Hi Brian, it's been a while

Cort,
With that being better explained, I can understand why some members wouldn't want to submit to "Just one Area" of the showcase.. and not Others.

A Question to Phill & members: Would this be a likable solution to paid or free members ala --- Free members get thier choice of one area..

Lower "PAID" members can sub in 2 areas depending on thier catagory of membership. (with in the sub or song numbers per day)

FINALLY...
Higher "Paid" members could sub to all areas with the restrictions of thier sub numbers per day. To the area or areas decided.. based upon a monthly choice...

THus Creating multiple areas of the Showcase to sub to...

Just another suggestion.

P.s. Darn Glad to see ya Cort!

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Brian D.
(BHB)

Why not just stop this crap and continue the way we were. It was fun and we are now trying to become professional. If you don't want to be ranked, check the box. As Tonmay said


that is sooo true!!!!
If you want to give me your "honest" opinion, go for it. I appreciate that! But the ranking...............hmmmmmmm if I were a professional, I wouldn't be on this site, busy recording and making a fortune. Unfortunately, I am just a good shower singer and a KJ.

I would not term any of the previous ideas as "crap". I personally value each and every persons opinion.

Maybe I was not clear in what I was suggesting.

The idea was to give a singer 3 choices when they submit a song. That song could only be submitted to 1 category.

THE NO RANK CHOICE
JUST FOR FUN

THOSE WHO WANT TO COMPETE
TOP TEN

SINGERS LOOKING FOR ADVICE
CRITIQUE

It takes a great deal of patience and understanding when attempting to change the status quo. Maybe Phill would be ahead of the game by not asking for our imput.

Cort
MC Entertainment

What ever happened to "karaoke is just for fun"?

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I'm getting tired of this.. Back to the showcase..


Somebody PM me when there is a FINAL vote... Please???

Thanks folks I tried...

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Brian D.
(BHB)

Gee - But I really enjoy getting everyone's input!

Because this is a site that is owned by Karaoke Scene, they have the final descicion. However, it is you folks that use the site and make it happen - that was why I was asking for your opinions.

As far as "c**p" - I haven't seen anyones opinion drop that far Although, what I am thinking that you mean is stop trying to make this into something that it is not.

As a few of you have stated we are not professonals singers and no one is in competition for a recording contract. (I don't think American Idol or Pop Idol have been calling KS)

I must agree to a point that maybe we are getting a little to far ahead of the game and I can just see how much work I would have to do to develope some of the features suggested (even by me.)

Let us get back to these points.
Here is what I am thinking of doing.

1) JUST FOR FUN - basically it is what we offer now, when you check the do not rank. Then in the comment section, it will also display that this is just for fun. Open to everyone to provide comments.

2) TOP TEN (25, 50 or 100) - This will be as I had originally suggested. Hidden individual ranks with ONLY the overall being displayed. Will also have comments. Should everyone rank or just paid members? ->This will not be a weekly or monthly competition. Unless, people want that! I will then create a section for that.

3) CRITIQUE - I will create a box that says "Please critique my performance." Then in the comment section, it will also display that request. Open to everyone to provide comments.

Therefore there will be no Panel of selected members. Unless, you wish to have them select the Monthly TOP TEN!? 10 people with 10 votes each.

I want to keep this simple, as well as, enjoyable.

Phill

btw - I don't think we should limit the sections (genres) that any member can submit to. That would be too limiting. (Besides that is a lot of programming work)

P.S. : BSS - I would lock you out

I enjoyed reading all the posts. Took me a while. I will be interested in seeing what becomes of this experiment. If it doesn't work out, well back to the drawing board. As far as ranking, Below is my personal ranking criteria.

1) Difficulty of Song chosen - the harder the song, extra points awarded
if well done.
2) Pitch/tone/on key
3) Personality/knowledge of song/emotion(THE PERFORMANCE)
4) Power- weak or strong-transitioning
5) Timing
6) Delivery-(smooth transition word to word-breathing)
7) Range-The ability to reach the correct octave
Overall quality from start to finish
9) Recording-only if it significantly obstructs performance
10) If it gives me a fun, sad, warm and fuzzy feeling, etc!
**Genre has no bearing - same criteria

I agree with the chosen criteria set forth. I will enjoy the outcome!

YoursTruly
Dona

I have to weigh in real quick. IMO - Dona has listed elements that MUST be considered when ranking/rating. But how...?

Rather than say "You did a Great Job" You could point out your specific reason for the score you gave by your own personal critiquing criteria or a STANDARD (from adm/moderator) critiquing criteria. This would be a considerate thing to do for the rank that you gave and a better understanding of why. It gives your personal opinion in a concise form or more elaborate. That is for those who truly want someones opinion and their reason for the opinion.

If a panel were to judge- possibly a 10 point system with 10 categories. Possible 100 points overall! Sounds like a contest criteria! I'm getting out of hand here and I know this- but this is food for thought!

Phil



That is exactly what I meant. Thank you.

Hi Allstar, Maybe we should all just get your opinion on everything because you have the unique ability and talent to decifer crap from crayols! What a resume you must have! I was giving a short note as to some of the things I thought would be considered. Thats what the Webguru asked for. Input! I'm not giving anymore input. Thank you Phil for all your efforts.

Mr. Guru, sir...........





Just what did that mean?!?!?

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

with all things said.. and If we all could just stick with the 3 alternatives of the 3 afore mentioned options that the "Webguru" has layed out on the table.. I'm absolutely fine with it.. I can make my choices from there.. I have the capability and songs to fit all 3 catagories. It's no sweat off my back..

Let alone I'm waiting For the new options to upgrade on the submission structure to be finalized... I'd love to be able to upload 7mb files and to send 10 files a day.. Here I have the capability to do 11+ songs a day on a good day (When Voice Permits -- it's rare... ) when I'm not doing radio commercials.

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Brian D.
(BHB)