Karaoke Forums

I'm guessing here, but I do think it is these individuals that caused the decision. It's just a feeling I get when I hear the owner talk about them. He sees them as free loaders. I rarely ever see anyone drinking water except for these 2 people on a regular basis. Water at the bar is served in white plastic cups. They don't serve anything else but water in them, so it is pretty obvious. I'm sure other people have drank it on occasion, but we're talking about all the time.

These regualrs come to karaoke 3 nights a week without fail. They are loyal regulars that never give me any problems.

It's not my place to say anything to the owner about the decision, it is his bar. What I can do is make these people feel welcome for several reasons - they spend money on food and pool and they are a pleasure to have around.

As for your second question - they serve salty snacks so people drink more. I wasn't clear where that was going though, sorry.

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Here, bottled water is about the same price as beer, and so is cola and other soft drinks. But here, karaoke bar/lounge do not serve food.

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A CRAPPY cup of JOE typically costs $1.95 around here. So to get a cup of coffee and be entertained for an extra $1 a cup doesn't seem like a huge leap to me! And as you suggested, people go to Starbucks and spend $5 for a cup of coffee. I can get a call drink and be entertained at some places for that price.

Clearly, the bar has decided to charge for coffee because there are people who think they can hang around and be entertained while drinking refillable coffee all night or find some other way to spend little or no money. For the bar, it's simply economics.

Interestingly, no matter what the discussion is on this forum regarding cheapskates, you can count on hearing from members who are cocksure that cheapskates are not really a problem.

On the other hand, when there are postings about how an owner has chosen to deal with the problem of cheapskates, there will always be those who suggest that the owner's is somehow wrong in his approach to the ("non-existent") problem. Hmm? Which is it?

And when it comes to cheapskates most posters insist that the problem, if any, is solely the owners. So, if that is the case why do we beat this "dead horse" every time an owner reacts to cheapskates and find fault with their decision? If it's their problem let them handle it.

Meanwhile, there are KJ's who have found cheapskates have become a problem that effects them directly! But, if the problem is solely the owner's and should be left to the owner, a KJ can't complain about how he is being effected by the owner's response to cheapskates!

I think the owner has the right idea, but just went a little OVERBOARD with the coffee price. I think if he is going to offer bottled water, and charge (let's say) $1.00 a bottle, then charge a buck a cup for the coffee. Then at the end of the night, IF the bartender wants to give out the coffee to anyone who wants it, GIVE it to them, instead of throwing it down the drain. As Babs said, we're talking about TWO people here, not twenty, AND they're buying food also. So, I say, sell them their bottled water, and sell them their CRAPPY cup of Joe, but for a REASONABLE price. To me, that makes EVERYBODY happy.


Srnitynow

Please note that the price being charged for bottled water was never stated. And there are 3 FREE refills with coffee, which works out to a buck a cup if the patron has all the available refills. If the venue charges $1 for a coffee, some people maybe inclined to sit around all night with their one cup.

Consider further that most postings in the past regarding this matter have stated that there should be NO free refills for non-alcoholic beverages!

I like this post.

It's been suggested several times in other threads that the solution to water drinkers is to sell bottled water. And I'm sure most of the bartenders will use common sense about dealing with the situation. Like tap water is free if purchasing food etc... I am lucky to work with some really good bartenders.

It's just tough when the rule is first implimented. When people are used to getting something for free than are charged for it, it leaves a bad taste in their mouth. The owner already has a rep for being cheap. My job is to smooth over the transition as much as possible, so I don't lose patrons because they are mad at the owner. Unfortunately this is a common occurance.

In my situation I have very few water and coffee drinkers, so I'm a bit surprised. My water drinkers used to drink coffee until he raised the price of coffee. I'd say it was about 2 weeks ago he raised the coffee price and just recently implimented the bottled water rule. As far as I know it has only effected 2 people like I said, so I can't complain.

It will be fine as soon as people get used to this being the norm.

When the owner first bought the bar he raised prices on all drinks 25 cents during karaoke. Now that really caused a hub bub. If I can survive that - I can survive this.

I guess in the long run like I said there is nothing I can do about what the owner decides to charge people, so I have to just do my best not to lose customers.

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THREE BUCKS FOR A CUP OF COFFEE??????? My God, Why?


Pinching pennies doesn't always add up to more profits in the long run!

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I think the coffee price is one of those fabrications of worth - obviously if you buy a 3-pound can of coffee and it costs $9 or so (depending on your location), $3 a cup is a lot - but someone has to make it, someone has to serve it, someone has to wash the cups and the machine, it takes power to run the machine, and someone has to make sure that those drinking coffee aren't ignored for their lack of economic contribution.

I don't think it's excessive really - if they drink only one cup all night they shouldn't cough about contributing a little more to the coffers. Best thing to do: Make really crappy coffee that no one wants to drink ... and never make fresh ...

AND WITH 3 FREE REFILLS THE $3 --- AND I STAND CORRECTED REGARDING A PREVIOUS POST ----- COMES OUT TO $.75 PER CUP. AND WHILE THAT IS RIDICULOUS COMPARED TO WHAT THOSE WHO DRINK ALCOHOL SPEND, GETTING $3 FOR THE COFFEE RATHER THAN $1.95 (PLUS UNLIMITED REFILLS) DOES MAKE SOME KIND OF STATEMENT! BUT IF IT WERE ME I WOULDN'T GIVE ANY FREE REFILLS.

Tov- I understand where you are coming from totally. I've read all those passed discussions on bottled water too.

I think where the problem lies is there are 2 kinds of owners when it comes to this. I can see it clearly because I do have an owner who is penny wise and a pound foolish, for the most part.

In my area $3 for 3 cups is not the norm. I don't know of any bar that charges more than $1 for 3 cups. Do I think it's high, yes. Do I have a problem with it , no. I have so very very few people that only drink coffee, it's not a bar killing issue. It's a bit embarrassing if anything. He isn't going to see a big difference in the til at the end of the night. I'd say he probably won't even be able to tell because water drinkers and coffee drinkers aren't a problem.

The other type of owner is doing it because he has a problem with water and coffee drinkers. That I can totally understand. If a lot of people are doing this I'm sure it effects the bottom line. I think the difference in opinion is mainly because there are different types of owners making the decision for different reasons.

As far as bottled water, I don't know what he is charging, but it does make sense in a karaoke bar to buy bottled water to me. Again in my case it won't make a huge difference. As long as the price is competitive with what other bars are doing I think it makes sense. It takes up bartender time and discourages free loaders, if one comes in.

Just my humble opinion

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Babs,

Perhaps you do.

Part of "where I am coming from" is this:

The "prevailing wisdom" on this forum, as espoused by the most experienced posters, is that any decision regarding karaoke cheapskates should be left to the owner/manager!

HOWEVER, when an owner does respond to such circumstances and that response is posted herein to be discussed, those who say the owner is the one who makes the decision have plenty to say in the way of criticizing that decision.

And while some of the criticisms are almost comical, the ones that tickle me most admonish bars about and warn them against doing things that encourage customers to drink!

Babs,

If you are sure that there are only 2 cheapskates that attend this particular bar during hours when entertainment is being offered, why do you think the owner has been so troubled by circumstances to spend any time thinking about it, much less responding to it?

Some places I went to had "2 drink/item minimum" posted on the door. So you know whats going to be even if you nursed your bottle for a hour+.

And when its time that you'd rather have tap water and lemon to work on until your song is coming up soon and leaving after, it will be free because I've already had paid for other drinks. The paid bottle water will be when I know I've probably got longer than 20 minutes to sing for the last time.

Now when its time that they've got to charge at the door. They are having problems, and that may get me from having to pay less since I've already paid at the door.

That works for me. But believe it or not a good number of members of this forum object to cover charges or minimums.

As to freeloaders, most people just assume karaoke ONLY takes place in bars. And in that regard, some will tell you how there are people who don't drink but come with a bunch of others who do. I GUESS EVERY BAR OWNER IS SUPPOSE TO BE A MIND READER as to who is an INDEPENDENT cheapskate and which cheapskate has come ESCORTED by people who don't mind spending money for being entertained? In some cases, posters don't even discern between drinkers who freeload and non-drinkers and find reasons to support anyone's right to sing karaoke regardless if they spend or don't. This is evidenced by discussions on this topic that have involved restaurants, rather than just bars, where people don't spend money and have absolutely no legitimate reason for not!

Maybe someone should start a poll as to the sensibility of charging a cover or a minimum at the door for karaoke shows?

Look what people pay at Starbucks, waiting in line, and you don't even get to sing.........Babs, maybe you should charge people to smell your stink-free farts....roflmao.....I've always thought of you as a breath of fresh air.....still roflmfao........

There's a business idea for you.

But they ARE making problems, because the owner sees them as freeloaders!

If it's evident who the water-drinkers are by the color of their cup, I see nothing wrong with calling them out on the mic in a humorous way, "Hey Jim, how about buying a beer or a Coke or something? I'll never get a raise with you drinking water!" It may not change things, but it will show the owner that you are also concerned with making his register ring instead of just getting paid.

At one of my shows, there's an older man who not only sings 3-4 songs a night, but he basically mumbles his way through every song. I realize that karaoke is not about singing well, but his singing/mumbling is actually an irritant to others in the bar. He sits all the way in the back and drinks water all night. I called him out a couple of weeks ago and I guess he decided not to come back. More of a "gain" than a loss in that we don't have to suffer through his mumbling AND have one less freeloader.

I do think $3 for water/coffee is a bit much...$2 seems more fair. These guys are buying food? Why doesn't that count for something with the owner? Seems there's some other reason here, or it's not JUST these 2 guys who are water drinkers.

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If they are being allowed to sit all night (night after night) and drink glasses of water, buying no drinks or food or SOMETHING----then its the bartenders and waitresses who are not doing they're jobs. A simple reminder that if they are not purchasing something then they will need to leave.

Now Im not so harsh on someone who's duty driver or someone with a bona-fide medical situation(that prevents alchohol consumption)---but even they ought to be buying sodas, juice, or coffees and a snack from the kitchen.

Im in agreement that hanging in the bar, doing karaoke, enjoying the band, whatever ought not to be free.

DJ can QUIETLY point these individuals out to the bartender/wait staff to be dealt with.

Embarrasing someone publicly over the mic---no Im not down with that in any context.

If you want the person out, thats fine, but be ADULT/PROFESSIONAL enough to confront them one on one, away from a glaring, embarrasing spotlight.

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