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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:55 pm 
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Next month I'm putting an ad in the Northwest Karaoke Guide not aimed toward patrons to come to my shows, but targeting owners of bars which already have karaoke, but are not happy with their present host and looking to make a change.

See the ad here.

I don't want to steal anyone's gig, but if a bar owner is already thinking about replacing their present host, I'd like the opportunity to make a presentation of how my show is different and can possibly increase their crowd and their ring.

Anyone else done any type of mass marketing directly to bars which already have karaoke?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:03 pm 
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No mate.

Don't like it.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:08 pm 
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Yes self promotion is important, but I think you will do much better if you let others promote for you, namely your KJs. Anyone can say they are better, but what really matters is the opinion of the patrons.

If you are an established karaoke host with a reputation, then by all means circulate an add saying that you are avalible for additional gigs. What really matters is which of your specific employes (or yourself) are avalible and when, and they probably have some reputation as well. It may be useful to list which nites different hosts are avalible as well as nights they can be seen so they can be assesed.

I know a karaoke company in my area that had a few good hosts, and some that were certainly not as good (from my point of view). Not much to say exactly why, but people just liked one more than the other. Not only that the host you provide for different clubs or environments may be very different. The host that works well in one bar may bomb in another.

I know as a hosting company you are trying to promote your business, but from the point of view of the bar it is the specific KJ that will be there, and it may or may be you or an employee. If they are interested in a specific kj they may want to go see some of thier shows before hiring them for other nights of the week. The person from the bar can make the decision if host X or host Y might work for them.

Claiming to be a better karaoke host is like claiming to make the best music. There is too much personal taste involved for a universal grade. Such claims sound a bit over the top for that reason.

I know my bar and I am friends with a kj at another bar, we both do pretty well on our home shows but at each other's bar our styles just would not work well at all.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:25 am 
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Business is business !!! Anyone who doesn't treat it as such is only kidding themselves. This isn't beer and babes, it's how I make a living!

Competition is good. Go for it !!!

Plus, if you were in my area, the only competition would be pirates


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:21 am 
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The question is, will you really be taking a "bad KJ's" spot, or will some lame assed bar that's on the downside call you? Frequently, a bar is failing through no fault of the KJ, it's the staff, the owner, or even the customers themselves... some bar regulars can be "scary." :D

In addition, this is inherently negative and IMHO "mean". I don't do negative. I don't do mean. I'm outgoing and fun and that's the way I choose to run my business. In the long run, I don't see that negativity helping you.

"Business is business"??? Why does competition have to be nasty? I love the new GM commercials. "YOU compare us to the competition and may the best car win."

Perfect. I say, "May the best KJ win." :wink:

If I was going to spend the money for a print ad, I would invite other bar owners "to come check me out and compare", and then list the places I play. That pulls double duty... marketing to the owners, while subtly putting your shows out there for anyone who might want to come check out a "good show."

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:27 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:12 am 
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One of the most fascinating aspects of this biz is the vast scope of quality (or lack of it) and the awareness level of management/ownership as to where they stand on that scale -- at times it is totally absent! I have seen places continue with what on the surface appears to be a good host, but before you know it attendance is down to zip, zero, nada. As a long-time host I can walk in and figure out pretty quickly that either a place will continue to be successful, or that attrition will set in.

I think a lot of it lies with lack of a good match - an upbeat, upscale small micro-brew serving bar with nice furniture, a few pool tables, great kitchen, can't bring in a "hoedown Hanna" who plays and sings ancient country music, and brings in a group of friends who sing the same. (This is a true story, btw.) The only time the pulse goes up is when a homie throws in a song and begrudgingly "Hanna" puts the song up, tries to 'get into it' and look happy about it, but fails miserably. She doesn't play music between the singers and has cut-rate equipment (player that takes FOREVER to load, etc.) The people who frequent the show only go because it is their bar, not because of the karaoke host or the service they provide. Yet management apparently considers this to be the status quo - that karaoke is karaoke. (I think that the owner of this place actually knew this host away from the bar business and once he hired her, he was afraid to fire her. Big mistake, no more karaoke, in a place that should by rights have been VERY successful with it based on local population.)

(An owner would would not hire a bartender that was diametrically opposite to the patrons yet often the first karaoke company that comes along is okay? As attendance drops they aren't able to grasp that it has to do with the entertainment and nothing else.)

How in the heck do we get through to owners that there is no truth to the thought that "karaoke is just karaoke?" I explain to owners that there are two reasons to bring in karaoke: One is to entertain the people that are already there, which means right off the bat you are going to have pay out of what you normally bring in and not make a cent more than you normally do...Now where is the sense in that? The other is to increase the bottom line by bringing in an above-average hosting company which will entice new people to come in. If it is a good enough place, this opens the business up to building a greater number of regulars who then come in on other nights besides karaoke nights, and revenues increase across the board ... without a huge dependence on having karaoke nights make up for the other nights.

Dan, there has to be a way to get through to owners - Many are using a hosting company that is in reality costing them money (because of the potentially higher revenues that could be generated with a good hosting company). Problem lies in the fact that there aren't a lot of really good companies anymore - a lot of the original ones in this area refused to work for $100 a night and quit the business. A lot of them are happily nestled in venues that will never let them go. What we have left here is people who are new to the business, think it is easy, come at it from a skewed set of information, and work for less. Very frustrating to me - I'm not interested in hiring out my equipment or building a second system (we had two systems for years and split the duties) - we work 3 nights a week and have other obligations. I see so many places that could really do well with a better class of karaoke...where do you find that, though?

As an after thought - Finding hosts with the right qualities to do a great show often tire of making someone else the money so they try it on their own - find a backer or, barring that, get set up with the minimum of equipment ... and you're out a host and have more fringe opportunitists lurking around, resorting to undercutting to work their way in.

:?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:18 am 
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I'm reminded of the ancient old addage: that what goes around sooner or later comes around...... in some form or another.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:32 am 
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Here are some 1 minute videos of hosts from the early 90's... Most have been long gone out of karaoke when the money went south, but I'm sure you'll get a kick out of them. just click on the link. (make sure you check out Tony Wilson and Lori Couturier)

http://dkusa.com/video


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:47 pm 
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c. staley @ Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:32 am wrote:
Here are some 1 minute videos of hosts from the early 90's... Most have been long gone out of karaoke when the money went south, but I'm sure you'll get a kick out of them. just click on the link. (make sure you check out Tony Wilson and Lori Couturier)

http://dkusa.com/video


I like the host spotlight videos, but I'm not exactly sure I understand why that is an example of a "professional" host. I also like the "Karaoke: an amateurform of entertainment that should be hosted by a professional" bit. In addition, a venue like that shown in the video would certainly call for $250 to $300 a night even today. I make around $200 a night (ahem :wink: ) for my Friday, Saturday, and Sunday night gigs and they are smaller, local bars.

Personally, I would have been more impressed with some examples of great singers sounding good, and putting on performances, while the host runs the sound board. The audience only sees the host as a "name caller" as you put it, but the action happens behinds the board during the performance.

Prime example, last night I had a trio of girls (known locally as the "Honeybees") singing the Christina Agulira version of Lady Marmalde, which is one of the few four part karaoke songs out there, as well as "Car Wash", and "Bad Girls". These are all tip notch singers, and they perform as well as sing this song... so there is movement with the wireless mics, etc.

Before they all started, I had each give me a quick "check, check" into the mic to get a baseline for each performer, and took it from there. I was able to simultaneously mix three singers, adjusting to match each style. Not one bit of feedback, and all the performers were clearly audible. That's what a "professional" does. If the host can perform also, surely that's a plus, but it the host's skills behind the sound board that really matter.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:22 pm 
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Dr Fred @ Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:08 pm wrote:
It may be useful to list which nites different hosts are avalible as well as nights they can be seen so they can be assesed.

Well since I am the company's only host, they are getting ME.

Dr Fred @ Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:08 pm wrote:
Claiming to be a better karaoke host is like claiming to make the best music. There is too much personal taste involved for a universal grade.

You're right. The term "better" is subjective. My goal is reaching bar owners who already aren't happy with their hosts, or feel, in their judgment, that they could get someone better than their opinion of the one they already have.

karaoke koyote @ Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:21 am wrote:
The question is, will you really be taking a "bad KJ's" spot, or will some lame assed bar that's on the downside call you?

Just because someone calls me and offers me a gig, doesn't mean I have to take it. I also do my due diligence about the bar, its location, its clientele, its owners, etc. I've had several bars call me for karaoke services over the years which I've respectfully declined. I only want to affiliate myself with venues that have the potential for long-term relationships where we both make money.

karaoke koyote @ Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:21 am wrote:
"Business is business"??? Why does competition have to be nasty? I love the new GM commercials. "YOU compare us to the competition and may the best car win."

And how far has that campaign gotten them? You're looking at a company that went bankrupt, had a federal bailout and has significant public relations problems from putting thousands out of work with closed plants. Not apples and oranges here.

The points I make in the ad aren't slinging mud. They are truisms that anyone who has been around karaoke for any length of time can affirm. Yes, there are hosts who see themselves as wannabe pop stars. Yes, there are hosts who use illegal libraries. Yes, there are hosts who do nothing to promote their own shows and are appy just showing up to whomever is there and collecting a paycheck.

My strategy is to hit bar owners NOT with "we're superior entertainers, so hire us" as much as "we are a professional entertainment company, so we understand you offer karaoke to make money. Making you money is our goal too." I want to be their partner in generating revenue, not just "the karaoke guy".

Karen K @ Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:12 am wrote:
How in the heck do we get through to owners that there is no truth to the thought that "karaoke is just karaoke?"

Whenever I speak with a new prospect, I always preface it with, "Mr. Owner, regardless of whether we end up doing business together, perhaps I can give you the benefit of my experience as a professional entertainer on how to better present your karaoke program."

I only want to work for owners who are "on board" and understand all the dynamics of what a good (better) karaoke host can do. Primary is professionalism. Showing up on time, treating customers with welcoming courtesy. There are karaoke bars every 4 feet in Seattle. But if my promotion gets new people in, and the new patronis enjoy the venue and the host, they'll be back!

Karen K @ Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:12 am wrote:
Problem lies in the fact that there aren't a lot of really good companies anymore - a lot of the original ones in this area refused to work for $100 a night and quit the business. A lot of them are happily nestled in venues that will never let them go.

Exactly! And I think there are a number of those top-tier karaoke venues that have been just "making do" with what's available. I've never really promoted my karaoke business before - pretty much just got leads from whomever happened upon my site and rang my phone. I still won't take bar gigs on Saturdays in favor of my DJ business where I'm booking gigs that pay 3-5X more.

I might be totally off base. There might not be the type of venues I'm looking to align with available. As Karen said, they might well have a legacy KJ there who they have no thoughts of replacing. But there are new venues every day considering offering karaoke...many of whom I believe are gunshy because they've been out and seen lackluster hosts.

Ronny D. @ Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:18 am wrote:
I'm reminded of the ancient old addage: that what goes around sooner or later comes around...... in some form or another.

Ronnie, I don't get your karmic caveat. If as a host you are not demonstrating that you are doing everything you can to keep your gig beyond just showing up and pushing play, you deserve to lose your show. How is that any different than, say, a car salesman who just depends on who comes through the door rather than actively prospecting?

The ad will be out in a couple of weeks...I'm anxious to see the response!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:30 pm 
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DangerousDanKaraoke @ Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:22 pm wrote:
Well since I am the company's only host, they are getting ME.





Then you better change your add from "our professional hostS"

And make it clear you are the one they are getting.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:35 pm 
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Well if you are in a bar full of people wearing suits and probably paying $10 for a beer of course a 200-300 pay for a host is not unexpected.

But a lot of people who go to bars are not professionals with white collar jobs and big salaries (even less recently).

Just like the waiter in the 5 star restaraunt gets paid more than the one at the local diner.


Personally although "entertaining" I would bet that some of the hosts would be asked to leave some of the bars I host. Not to say they may not work elsewhere, it is just not the right style for where I have my gigs.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:07 pm 
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Dr Fred @ Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:30 pm wrote:
Then you better change your add from "our professional hostS" And make it clear you are the one they are getting.

Fred I can always get more hosts depending on demand. I would address that directly with the bar owner during my consultation with them.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:11 pm 
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I like Dans;s ads (I tried to to steal one) The only thing I would change is one of the best hosts. I used to tell owners I had the best system and I would see a look in their eye like they always get when talking to a salesman.

Quote:
I like the host spotlight videos, but I'm not exactly sure I understand why that is an example of a "professional" host. I also like the "Karaoke: an amateurform of entertainment that should be hosted by a professional" bit. In addition, a venue like that shown in the video would certainly call for $250 to $300 a night even today. I make around $200 a night (ahem Wink ) for my Friday, Saturday, and Sunday night gigs and they are smaller, local bars


Those were the pioneers. We didnt have a bunch of singers lined up to sing they had to be coaxed and have a few first. I wasnt doing shows then but I can still run that type of format. It became unpopular when people actually wanted to sing and I was one who walked out if the host sang 2 in a row. My last gig was that way only we had about 10 good singers that entertained and didnt expect actual applause every time but knew when they were turning the audience on by the energy they got back. Karens post said it very well and when you reach that ability to entertain every type of crowd then you are a host.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:10 pm 
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DangerousDanKaraoke @ Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:22 pm wrote:
And how far has that campaign gotten them? You're looking at a company that went bankrupt, had a federal bailout and has significant public relations problems from putting thousands out of work with closed plants. Not apples and oranges here.


Uh, that's a brand new ad campaign from GM, and I was just using it as an example of a positive campaign ad... which it is. What the ad has done for them remains to be seen, and my observations remain accurate.

I've been in a variety of businesses for 20 years, and experience and education have taught me that negative competition may give you a temporary boon, but over the long haul damages how others perceive your business.

In business, perception is reality.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:47 pm 
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Here is a tale of 3 music stores:
One music store has been around for 15 years or more.
Another just about 10.
The last has been in business for 7 years.
The 15 year old store lacked customer service and carried only a few brands.
The 10 year old store has decent customer service and a decent variety of products but likes to badmouth the competition to anyone who will listen.
The 7 year old store bases their business on good customer service, a variety of products and brands, and takes care not to badmouth anyone, even when told directly about the other store badmouthing them.
The 15 year old store just closed its doors for good at the end of this summer. The lack of customer service and the lack of variety of inventory did them in.
Business is only getting better and better for the 7 year old store. It seems the majority of the 15 year old store's customers are now going to it.
The 10 year old store is beginning to lose its customer base due to the badmouthing and again, the 7 year old store is benefiting from it. Those turned off customers are sure to tell the 7 year old store all about it, and all the while the owner of the 7 year old store says nothing and just puts the cash in the till.
It has become apparent that the owners of the 10 year old store are getting desperate. They have begun an even bigger smear campaign against the 7 year old store. Some of what they've done with their business makes it apparent that they are not making the money the used to and may even be losing money.

Why am I telling you this story?
Think about it.
The 7 year old store doesn't go around telling people his store is better. He doesn't badmouth the competition, yet he's successful.
Why is that?
Because talk is cheap. The 7 year old store owner is too busy BEING the best to go around BRAGGING about it. He doesn't need to.
He's too busy conducting his business the RIGHT way to worry needlessly about what the other guy is doing.
THIS is the store that will come out on top.
Think about it.
Now go apply it to yourself.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:43 pm 
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:banger: :laughatthat: Nicely put :!:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:02 pm 
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My thought is I don't think you actually needed to go there because if a venue was looking to replace their karaoke host they'd call any way because it's a good ad. I personally think making your ad enticing is what will make them call and getting them to make that call is what it is all about. I know you know that. :D

This is just an idea -

Make them think why hiring you is a good idea besides what you've already listed, but hit them with what they're thinking about. (more customers and making money)
Listing questions in your ad like:

Is what you're doing now bringing in new customers?
Are you seeing an increase in sales?
Have you thought about making a change, but wasn't sure what to do?

NOT YOUR ORDINARY KARAOKE HOST - YOU'LL SEE THE DIFFERENCE WHEN YOU HIRE QUALITY

Affordable - Professional - Proven high quality entertainment that targets making your business better

If they're thinking about hiring a different KJ this will still catch their eye, but you're saying it in a subtle way.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:23 pm 
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Well said Diafel.

I haven't actively looked for a new venue in over a year. I've lost two gigs in that time, both from bars on the decline. I simply put out the word to my singers that I was looking for another gig, and the word got out.

In both cases, based on referral only... bar owners came to ME, saw my show, and asked me to come work for them. I even picked up a sixth night based on referral... even though I had to let it go as I simply couldn't do the six night a week thing.

I turn down additional offers for other nights all the time. I don't advertise, I don't bad mouth my competition. I run my business.

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