Karaoke Forums

I remember a few months back letitrip posted a thread about digital boards. at the time i thought it looked cool, but overly complicated. I don't remember the brand he was posting about, but last sat night I did a fill in as sound man for a local band. I had never heard them before and the drummer who owns the gear (i had worked with him before) had just bought one of these http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail ... oductId=52 . presonus has it figured out. many digital boards seem to make you get into more of a computer format to adjust all the built ins. this thing puts them all within easy reach at the touch of a button and the turn of a knob. Ill admit i didn't walk in and have it all down before the band even started, but they did sound decent right off. the faders seem to be a mile long and slide like glass (almost to easy). Its a year or so off for me yet, but I really see myself buying one of these. he said he got it for around 1800 at GC. when you think about all the comps gates eqs and effects built in its really not that expensive.

tony, im betting you know these guys. I was in your area.

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the voices arent real, but they have some good ideas

I actually haven't had the chance yet to use a PreSonus digital board, but everything I've heard about them has been good. Digital consoles in general are just awesome. The flexibility, predictability and accuracy just cannot be matched with most analog boards in the same price range.

I've got the Yamaha O1V which is their smallest digital console, but I've used the LS9's, M7's and the PM5D's and they are just too much fun!! IT's a bit of an investment but well worth it in my book. The board I'm looking forward to trying out soon is the new DigiDesign Venue 32, it's supposed to be one of the best on the market right now.

I'm curious about who the band might have been, I can't think of anyone I know that has a PreSonus board.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

The thing about the StudioLive is it does not have motorized faders. So when you change layers you actually have to position the faders where the board needs them to be. That totally sucks. IMO unless you are using the multi-track recording interface, that mixer has zero advantages vs an O1V.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Eww, I didn't realize that, that would seriously suck. I'm not even sure how that would work but I don't like it. Definitely motorized faders are a must, I can't imagine having to try to do that all manually. Besides, it's fun to wow the folks at your show when you change pages and they see all the faders fly to new positions.

A guy that works for one of the production companies that just bought a pair of M7's learned really quickly why you need to keep the faders clear. He had a Sharpie laying across a few of the faders and when he changed pages, the faders came up and sent the marker flying into the audience in front of him.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

thats funny. having to set the faders is pretty minor. the board tells you how to set them with the leds. its not like i would expect to change pages during a gig. I like that it is really easy to access all your settings. before i bought anything i would want to use a few different ones. as i said from what i was told the presonus is kinda like a mid point between an analog board and other digital boards. the controlls are more like an analog yet it has the features of a digital.

tony, you know noisy neighbors?

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the voices arent real, but they have some good ideas

I know of them, have seen them play, they used to play at the same bar where I do my weekly Thursday night gigs. I don't know any of them personally however, and I haven't worked with them before.

As far as the changing pages, much of it would depend on how you use different features. For me, I change pages a lot during the show. When I use delay on a song, I need to adjust it to the correct delay speed and feedback ratio, so that's on a separate page. Also adjusting the AUX Sends is also a separate page and uses the faders (rather than knobs) to set that mix. So much of it depends on how you use those features and how the board implements them. I would definitely recommend trying a few different models and see what you're most comfortable with.

If you ever get the chance to swing by one of my shows, let me know, I'd be happy to give you a run-down on the O1V.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Yeah, don't discount the value of moving faders until you have tried both. And honestly, the StudioLive has no value at all compared to an O1V unless you are using the multi-track recording interface. It's a dual-purpose product that is clearly better suited to recording than live performance.

I have given a great deal of thought to how I want to do live recording in the future. My plan is to buy an Alesis HD24 or similar and take signal from the insert jacks for recording. This does not compromise my ability to mix live the way I am most comfortable, which is what I care about most; and gives me the tracks I will want for later mix-down.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Tony, they are either at knuckleheads next week or in a few weeks. i saw it on there site. It was interesting mixing a band i never heard in a bar i was never in before, but had been told was interesting (rookies) on a digital board when i had never even touched one..have i mentioned I like a good challenge? it really wasnt that bad. he had the effx setup , the drummer set the inital gains ect while i watched. i set up the gain on the kick and snare and then played with the eqs and faders mostly. by the second set we had it sounding good and got a bunch of complements. Im hoping to work with them or the drummers other band again soon. the guy 5 houses down from me is half owner of a sound company that is really growing in the mil area and is hoping to get me working for him a lot starting in the spring. He has a problem with guys not taking care of his gear, something i have also dealt with.

I don't get many chances to get out during the week so i dobt ill catch one of your shows any time soon.

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the voices arent real, but they have some good ideas

An unfamiliar digital mixer can really make you work hard at things that are simple tasks on an analog board with one knob per function. I'll tell you what, if I was not comfortable with the mixer and I was unhappy with the FoH sound after the second song, I would have asked the band to take a short break while I ripped that crap out and patched in a Behringer.

It should never, ever take a whole set to get where you want sound-wise. If the mixer is keeping you from being effective then use a different one until you are more practiced on it. I know for certain I would not like to mix on a StudioLive and I would not agree to do so if asked without a plenty long sound check or a garage practice first.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

I guess your reading that wrong. it never sounded bad, I just got things better as a played with minor adjustments through the set.the pre loaded settings were pretty decent.
ill never patch in a beringer unless its an emergency and a piece of real musical equipment has failed. at that point it would have to be something somebody had in there car as i wouldnt own one.

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the voices arent real, but they have some good ideas

I'm not promoting the sonic advantages of Behringer mixers. I just mean I would rather use a cheap analog console than a digital I am unfamiliar with.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

ok, well as i see it you can play with it at home for life or you can jump in and really learn the thing by using it. Ive always believed in jumping in and just doing it. My fist karaoke show is still one of the biggest i ever did, in a really packed bar giving away 10 pairs of tickets to see Motley crue and Aerosmith the next night. the first gig i ever did with my whole system was a co fair doing 6 karaoke shows and 5 bands in 5 days by myself. Its all gone smoothly and Ive been complemented on a job well done in all cases. sometimes you have to just go for it. obviously being prepared and having the needed knowledge and ability are important but ill never limit myself to what ive done before. I met the guy i worked for using the digital board at the county fair gig, he iwas impressed that anyone would run that gig alone, much less on a system that had never been fully together before (I had used it all, but at different times). Im pretty sure that was why he called me.

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the voices arent real, but they have some good ideas

For the record, my first experience with a Digital board was at a live gig using the Yamaha M7. If you know what your way around analog consoles, there's only a few things you really have to learn about the digital to be able to accomplish the same things. Before the gig I studied up on where to find the things I was looking for and had a plan for the routing I wanted. After that it was just a matter of getting used to the interface. I agree with supercharged on this one, trial by fire sometimes is the best way to learn. You can only duplicate so much at home and what are you gonna do, go out and buy or borrow each board that you are scheduled to use?

Another quick story, I also got to teach a 54 year old sound engineer how to use the M7. He had no prior digital console experience and is definitely not computer savvy so I thought it might be a challenge for him. One I got him to understand how the Active Channel controls are assigned and work on the M7, he had the thing down pat. So again, I don't think all people have to go through a home study course to get up to speed. Sure some do, but we all learn differently so don't discount the ability to learn on the fly.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

If I was a hired BE for a band that owned their PA I would ask for a longer sound check or ask them to make time for a practice gig before using it. I would rather be prepared than screw up a live gig!

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

i was a FILL IN before the gig i had only even ever met the drummer. all i knew about them was from there website. i was called the monday before the gig. no time for extra practice. they barely got set up on time checked levels and I started learning. Was i nervous?..heck yeah! did I know I could handle it?..heck yeah. was i happy that the bar was kinda slow first set? no question! I didn't have to do any routing, and didnt mess with the effects other than vol, there is a lot more for me to learn on it that I would love to do, but I can add digital mixing to my list of experences.

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the voices arent real, but they have some good ideas

When mixing a band in a club, it is rare that either of these would be an option. Most clubs that I have experience with are very specific on the times for when a band can begin load-in and whatnot. I might ask the band to be focused during setup so that we can have more time for a soundcheck, but they are musicians and the chances of that actually happening is usually pretty slim.

Like I said we each learn differently, but I can't think of a time I've ever had the ability to request to use the console prior to a gig where I was using something new. Most times I don't even know what the console's going to be before I walk in. I do remember being a bit nervous and unsure walking in to my first gig with a Midas Heritage. But a funny thing happened, I relied on what I already knew and gee the board worked the same as most others I had used, just had to learn the control design for that board (the parametric EQ controls for instance are pretty slick).

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

supercharged, thanks for your post. It got my attention, so I did some research on that Presonus mixer. A lot actually, since I was stuck in Germany for 2 weeks and had nothing else to do...

Anyway, the more I looked into this mixer and all the demo videos, the more excited I got about it. Needless to say, I just ordered one yesterday.

If anyone is interested in a used Mackie Onyx 1620, let me know!

I got the mixer today. Will let you know, how it works out. =)

Ok, so all I can say is "WOW!".

I used the new mixer last night for the first time and oh my god...

Don't get me wrong, Mackie built a fine Mixing Console with the Onyx series, but what a huge difference in sound quality with the Presonus Mixer. The clarity, the headroom, the preamps, all in all... it just blew the Mackie Onyx away... far away!
Even my not so sound experienced regulars could definitely hear a difference in sound quality.

I am very pleased I got this mixer and thanks again supercharged for mentioning this console here. I would have never know about it otherwise. It was definitely love at first sound...

One thing to keep in mind (since you mentioned headroom) is that in the digital world 0dBu means 0. In the analog world you generally have headroom to exceed 0 dBu without clipping. In the digital world, if you exceed 0 it's an immediate and hard clip, no room for error. Just keep that in mind as you watch your meters and set your gain structure. When setting input attenuation on each channnel, you no longer want to have the peak light flicker once in a while, you want your levels to always remain below 0. I generally have my digital console's channel attenuation set so that uncompressed peaks hit around -6 dB.

Good luck and enjoy!!

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke