Karaoke Forums

I am told that it is not uncommon for Karaoke people to get stiffed on the pay.
Well it happened to me on Friday at a fairly new gig. When I packed up there was no one around who was "authorized" to pay me. The owner, who had paid me the last time, was no where to be found! And he hasn't accepted or returned my calls.

I have sent him an invoice via certified mail/return receipt, which is the equivalent of a "demand letter". Next week I plan to file a suit in small claims court.

Any advice, suggestions, etc?

Never work there again, and make sure that as soon as you see a posting of new gig there you let the newbie know the score.

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Totally agree.

I guess what I am asking for is advice from people who have been in this position as to how they proceeded to COLLECT the unpaid fee, or attempted to collect it.

File in small claims, but even before you do, go EVERY SINGLE DAY and keep asking for your money. Once you file, serve him and then continue to try to collect, right up until the court date.

I'm going to share what I did with a bar who once stiffed me...and you may think it's wacky. But it worked.

The problem with Small Claims (this varies from state to state) is even if you get a judgment, you now have to get it served to the same person you couldn't reach to get paid in the first place. Just because you have a judgment doesn't mean you'll collect on it. Also, many establishments use various corporate names which make it hard to track down their actual assets as to who owes what and who the right entity is to sue.

What I did was call the bar and let them know that I still haven't been paid for a service I provided. The manager said, "Well I've told the owner a couple of times that you've called and I'm not authorized to pay you." I replied, "Fine, I understand. But I'm sure you understand that I need to be paid for work I performed for you in good faith. So what I'm going to do is on Saturday night is bring a bunch of my friends to picket outside your bar with signs saying that (owner) is a deadbeat and urging people not to go inside. See, now this has become more than an issue of the $200, but a personal insult. Until I'm paid, we'll be back every Saturday, or maybe several days during the week, to picket. Now if you don't believe me, wait until Saturday."

(By the way, be sure to check your city's ordinances on protests regarding size of sign, number of people, keeping moving, etc.)

Next day I got a call from the manager to pick up a check.

See, when you have a private disagreement with a business it's not hurting their income. When you take it public and it affects their revenue? They'll pay you just to get it over with.

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Great idea, Dan! I like it.

I mailed the invoice using return receipt requested service. According to the post office it should be received tomorrow at the corporate owner's address which is different from the address of the venue! I'll wait a few days to see if I hear from them.

You are somewhat correct, Dan, about small claims court.
That's one of the reasons I have posted this question. I had won a judgment years ago from a tenant but could never perfect it!

My only concern about using the threat of picketing is that if I don't get paid I will have to give up more of my time (and my friends) to research the laws regarding picketing and to follow through on my threat! And... if I do end up picketing how long do I do it for?

Is the venue expecting you to continue working there or were you told that they were discontinuing karaoke??? If they expect you to work there again, I would NOT even bring in my equipment until I was paid what they owed me for the previous show and paid me up front for that evening's show.

Tov, regarding researching the picketing laws (you don't say where you are based) it should be as easy as a call to your local police station.

Consider that you have already invested time in sending a demand letter. There'll be more time (and expense) in going to file suit and appearing for the hearing. Something tells me even if they don't pay you before the day you say you'll picket and call your bluff, that you won't need to picket more than an hour before they'll come out and settle. Even if it's just you and one friend, that's still bad publicity for them that they won't want.

Good luck!

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My dearly deceased father-in-law was a rabble-rouser of the nth degree. He told me if I wanted satisfaction to squeal the loudest in front of as many people as could be gathered for that purpose.

I had a '90s Ford pickup that I had purchased new. Paint started peeling off it, as it did with the entire stock of trucks from that year. As I had a bumper-to-bumper warrantee that was nowhere near up, ex called them and told them we wanted it painted. They told him no, it wasn't their responsibility to paint it. I disagreed, called the same guy back, told him I would park in front of their dealership with a big sign that said, 'This is a Ford. Do you want a Ford paint job?' Said I'd stay there every day, all day long, and make sure every potential customer saw it. I was down at the dealership 15 minutes later with a warranty dude doing a paint test and made an appointment for the paint job. Geesh, just give me the paint job in the first place. Too many people take the path of least resistance these days, I think.

If you have a local TV station, see if their news programs has a consumer help segment. They like sending camera crews and reporters to the place you have a beef with. Trust me, these places do not want the bad publicity.

Let me guess. 94?
That was what mine was with the same issue. Too bad I bought it used. Too late for me....

Oh I be sportin' a big red 2001 F250 powerstroke with a Banks Six-Gun system in it now - the most amazing pain job I've ever seen. When it rains, somehow the rain washes it! My original F250 was a '90...but I think from '89 through '94 they had that problem. Dumchits.

I must point out that this matter is one of principle to me. I am, in fact, willing to spend more money than I am owed in order for justice to be served! And hopefully, my efforts will deter this sleazeball from doing the same thing in the future to another KJ or DJ

While the problem of KJ's getting stiffed, I have learned, is more prevalent than I had imagined, I can't find anyone locally who has ever aggressively pursued their money when they have been stiffed. And so far Dan is the only one on the forum who has come forward with first hand experience. So I keep mulling over his idea about picketing!

But as to picketing, I am a little skeptical. This place has no real foot traffic going past it and the vehicular traffic would be moving too fast to be concerned with any "signs" I might have on display. It's clientele is largely a college crowd that is often drunk before they arrive. I am not convinced that the owner will care if I stand outside and share with these college kids how he stiffed me? I just don't know.



Now that I can relate to. One interesting fact which comes to mind in that regard is that the place is filled beyond its legal capacity on some nights! Maybe a call to the fire marshal from a concerned fireman in attendance at the premises might cause some meaningful disruption?

I am going to inquire as to whether there are collection agencies that would take on a client that has only one account to collect on. I wonder further if having an actual judgment from the court would increase the incentive for an agency to handle such an account?


As to notifying a "consumer help line", I am not a consumer in this situation.

Go in and make a scene (of sorts)
I had this situation once. I went into the bar while it was busy and I loudly said, I'm here to collect the money you owe me; everyone around heard how he stiffed me, and I said I'm not leaving until I get paid...the customers started telling him - just pay her- etc...and he did - cash.

As far as I know, the way it works in Small Claims, is after your case is heard, and the Judgement is made, (assuming it is in your favor) you have 30 days for them to pay you. If they do not, you can then go to a County Marshall or Sheriff's Office to start the ball rolling on collections (Small Claims Court gives you all of that information).

I have a friend who was in this situation. He took it a step further. After the Judgement was made, he went to the place and demanded his money ($150.00). They still refused to pay him. He then copied down their liquor license and reported them to the State Liquor Board. He was also able to get a Lien against them. This meant that now, this establishment could NOT serve ANY liquor until the Lien was removed (which meant paying their debt). The bar never paid the money, and they closed down a month later. They knew that they were going to shut down anyway, which is why they never paid this KJ (they just closed down a little sooner than they thought they would).


Another KJ friend of mine had issue at a different establishment. The Owner used to leave early, and then call the place up to check with his staff as to how busy the night had been. If it was a slow night, he would tell the staff to short-change the KJ. Well, it got to the point that the KJ did what BFFL suggested. He demanded his past pay first, and from that time on (until he no longer hosted there), he demanded his pay up front, or he would not set up. Other KJs were warned of this Owner's M.O., but still offered their services there (until they got stiffed). I also offered my services there, but I gave the Owner a contract. He refused to sign the contarct with me, so I never played there... BTW, that was the only place that I ever presented a contract for my services.

I've never been stiffed yet, knock on wood ! But I think the picketing idea is genious.

I'd think just the threat alone would work. If he called your bluff and you did have to picket I also think he'd cut his losses and pay you. The embarrassment alone would make him cave.

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Keep in mind you want to act WITHIN the law. Picketing outside the venue - as long as you adhere to your local ordinances about protests - is legal. Going inside an establishment, creating a ruckus and refusing to leave is probably not and would subject you to police arrest.

Tovmod, sometimes it not what something does, it's how it looks. Granted that some drunk college kids might go in anyway. But what about calling the college newspaper that a favorite student haunt is a deadbeat? Or what about in addition to picketing, you print some flyers for the competing bar down the street and distribute those as well to passers by?

As George Costanza once said, "All right, you wanna get nuts? Come on. Let's get nuts!"

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Thanks to everyone for their input!

Please keep the ideas coming. I am starting to see a plan coalescing. And maybe I won't have to utilize small claims court?