Karaoke Forums

Sure, there's an exception to every rule. And I'll bet there's a handful of better nightclubs, casinos or hotels that occasionally feature karaoke.

But has it been your experience that karaoke is mostly the exclusive domain of venues like dive bars, neighborhood restaurants and local watering holes?

This is the theory I have based on doing some research to expand the number of venues for my weekly shows and examining the prospective earning capacity of a karaoke show.

Most bars will pay at most $150 for a 4-5 hour show. Some larger venues might go to $200 or $250, but that's increasingly rare. So even if you've gotten yourself 4 shows a week at $150 a show, that's a $30K/year fulltime job. (Be sure to deduct from that the cost of buying new music, gear upkeep and other expenses.)

With today's standard of living, not much of a paycheck unless you have a day job.

So IS it possible to make a full-time living from being a karaoke host, or is it destined always to be a part time endeavor?

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[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

Add in Sports Bars.

But yes it tends to be the entertainment of choice in local dives/smaller places/neighborhood places/sports bars. Most are not DESIGNED as entertainment venues as such(booth seating, roomy dance floor, etc).

Many are more geared towards playing pool, and they "HAPPEN" to have Karaoke.

Very few Hi-End "Nightclubs" offer it. Even less casinos.

As to wages---the figures you quote are a vanishing amount. Undercutters drive that figure down down down.

Even your buddy Deann in Portland was complaining about recently losing a gig to a $50-a-night undercutter when I went and dropped papers at SPOT 79 in PDX last night

(by the way you need to have Tye run a correction in the next NWKG issue----Deann is NOT at "THE SPOT"---that is on 4th Plain Blvd in VANCOUVER. Deann is at SPOT 79 on Foster Road in SE Portland)

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

I agree with what Kurt said. I won't elaborate but i do know of kjs that only run karaoke 5-6 times a week and make 50k on the mainland. Now that's BANK.

How a lot of middle aged people run shows more than 3 times a week AND have a day job do it i have no idea, but i certainly respect them and admire their stamina!

I only do 5 times a week but am semi-retired for now. I don't think i could handle a day job without burning out of life or hurting myself, ! I don't make in hawaii as much as i did on the mainland, but this money is mainly for traveling with the wife to europe. For some people in parts of the country, 30k is doable and can support a family along with a partners income. Some teachers only make 18k in some parts. I think it definately depends on WHERE you live.

The problem with karaoke is that unlike a band or regular DJ there is a maximum number of people that can participate.

Sure some shows have a lot of people that come to listen but usually they come to listen to their friends, or while they are waiting for their turn. Other shows have a large number of people who are in the bar to drink/socialize and would be there without the karaoke, so they dont really count as being drawn to the bar by the karaoke. With a maximum of 15 or so singers an hour that means 45 or so singers waiting for their turn at any one time, even if they wait for 3 hours. Add in an equal number of non singers and you are at 100 people.

Now dont bring up nights when there were over 100 people at your show, yes it can happen (and my crowds have occasionaly peaked above that number) but not sustainably in most cases. So bars that are based on having over 100 people in the bar to make a profit can't rely on karaoke (alone).

With a band or a good DJ, and given enough space, packing 200-400 or more people in a bar is not at all that unusual.

Since Karaoke is really limited to a percentage of the tab of 100 people (at one time), the maximum wages are determined by that fact. Bands and good DJs can attract and earn more (on a sustained basis).

Some places might manage to get a show together that depends on really talented singers, but that will be hard as a big crowd will have a lot of bad singers that may try to sing. This means a "rotation" that is very biased and will put off some people. A real good singer that will attract followers will also usualy prefere to sing more than once every couple hours, meaning to have a show with a big set of singers people want to watch would be difficult.

Now when it comes to an expensive small bar, there is nothing saying that having a lot of money can make you sing. So the talent level of a small expensive bar may not be great, much of the best local talent may not be able to afford the prices. So if there is going to be one good bar in a region that attracts most of the best local karaoke singers, it will probably be middle price range or lower. Usually good karaoke singers like to go where there are other good singers, and many of the local best will end up at one show they all can afford. This leaves the expensive bar with a lot of bad singers, and with the overhead, and potential that bad singers drive away some other people, most expensive bars choose to avoid Karaoke.

I haven't had that experience. In some cases Karaoke is a low-cost way to bring in some entertainment on a low totalling night (like Tuesdays and Thursdays). I play two bars that have me in on weekdays and then Saturdays and Sundays are live bands. Every bar that I play at also has bands. I do play a couple bars that bring me in on Fridays and Saturdays instead of having a band. All the places I play, except for one, do a good amount of advertising (in the bar, in local papers, even on the radio in some instances) and really do "feature" Karaoke. Those are the best nights too.

Of course maybe I'm not so low cost either based on what you just described Dan. I won't play a 4-hour gig for less than $200. It's simply not worth my time to transport, setup and tear down my equipment for less. At two of the bars I play I know for a fact I am their "premium" karaoke provider (DISCLAIMER: I mean premium in terms of cost, for purposes of this thread I'm not making any statement here on my quality versus any other KJ). Both of them hire cheaper KJ's for lesser nights but for their bigger nights they call me. I like to think it's because I'm worth it, but honestly as long as they're calling and paying, I don't care why as long as they feel I'm doing a good job.

The problem with all live entertainment in bars is that its very hit or miss. I've seen bands that get $2500 fail to bring 100 people into a venue. I've seen bands that make $600 for a gig have lines out the door. And I've seen it go back and forth for the same band. It's hard for a venue to take the risk on paying $2500 for a band that may or may not deliver. With Karaoke at least the hit if it isn't packed is much lower. I don't think it's a testament to the class of the joint, just a matter of good fiscal sense.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Like most topics. the answer is, "It Depends"..

Some of the highest class clubs in L.A. / Hollywood / The Valley have karaoke seven nights and are doing just fine..

They advertise, have security at the door, dress codes, and raise drink prices for the show or charge a small cover.

While all that may sound petty, the clubs are clean, have excellent food and wait staff, and are busy.

Your mileage may vary..

Saw this ad on CL a week ago:

Ladies night fun at The Spot 79 all Well drinks only $1.50 (yea for the Ladies) during De-aan's Crazy Karaoke show!
Singing, Dancing, Impersonation, Karaoke (over 375,000 Songs) Sing on Stage under the laser beam lights
(( NO COVER CHAR GE )) De-aan is your sexy host !
Show starts at 9pm

The Spot 79 7944 SE. Foster Rd. Portland, OR.

need more info?
Call Killer Karaoke Entertainment at 503

It seems to me it would be hard to replace Deanne for $50.00 a night with such a large karaoke selection. OMG I Love Portland.

We have a saying at our company "The cheaper the drinks, The worse the entertainment... The more expensive the drinks... The better the Entertainment".
Lets here it for BOGO NIGHT.

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CHECK YOUR ATTITUDE AT THE DOOR, STICK AROUND YOU JUST MIGHT HAVE SOME FUN

Yes, most small bars/taverns, now more than ever, are bringing in karaoke as a draw. Sadly, many of these places bring in cut-rate karaoke (inexperienced hosts, poor equipment, etc.) and pay poorly for it. Again, I think there is a knowledge/information gap - a lot of owners have NO idea how much income CAN be generated by a great hosting company; they believe all karaoke hosts are the same. They have no idea about equipment or what it takes to be a very good host, so you end up with these little corner taverns who are really only providing entertainment for their homies because other than those who have their own stool there, most outsiders won't step foot in them.

I have hosted in many different types of places, including most recently a 2-year, Fri/Sat gig at a fairly good sized card room (casino without the slots). It was one of the best rooms I've ever seen and we packed it Fri & Sat every weekend. Thing is, I provided entertainment for them, not just a robot host, and when I left it began the slide down because they brought in a warm body to do karaoke. By the end it was a joke -- the place eventually just closed down.

I can't help but think there is some sort of connection between the caliber of the hosting companies out there and who ends up hiring them. If some of these bigger, higher class places hire the first warm body hosting company and it fails, they are less likely to bring it in and try again. "Karaoke doesn't work here." Well, fact is, bad karaoke doesn't work ANYWHERE, and good karaoke will work anywhere you put it. But there has to be value for the dollar -- if you're going to ask more than the average undercutter, you'd better have a marketable product, professional references (which I have), maybe a marketing DVD showing packed houses and happy singers, etc., etc.

I think we have to be careful not to try and lump all venues into one or two categories - there are many different configurations -- intimate, high class bar/restaurants, versus corner tavern where the owner invests big time, versus places that are barely hanging on, full of homies who spend their weekly entertainment allowance in dollar bills, etc. etc.

Karaoke allows for participation. It requires a relatively small footprint. It is affordable for places that are only ringing $600 at the end of the night.

I'd say a lot of what you're talking about is regional. Here in the Baltimore Md area karaoke is at low class "dives" as well as upscale places.

Generally, that's the definition of "career path" for karaoke. When you start out, you get your first gig at a dive for $100 - $125 a night. As you get more experience and begin to form a following you "move up" to better gigs. The top gigs pay between $200 -$250 a night for an experienced KJ, and the average gig is $150 for a decent bar.

Even the lower class bars pay at least $150 for a Friday or Saturday night. I know my weekends bring in $600, and that's not counting if I have a private gig in the afternoon. Those rake in an addition $300 - $400, and I get about two of those a month.

I've only been doing this for about 3 years now so as things progress I expect to make more. Right now, I'm buying discs and following those KJs getting out of the business so I can snatch them up cheap so I can multi-rig. It would be nice to have a second system so I can take those gigs I'm turning down now because of my regular night.

To be successful, you've not only got to have a good system, a winning personality, and good people skills, you've also got to have good business sense.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

We have the situation as the Koyote describes. We have started in a dive where a good till is $400 to $500. Hosts are paid from $75 to $125 or on "results." The
stage area is postage stamp and a good part of the capacity is taken up with pool tables. Many of the dives have low cost pirate shows as it is that or nothing. We have been told we have the worst singers anyone has ever heard at karaoke but we draw from "the neighborhood." Recently we have started to get some more accomplished singers, some from the big city areas who got turned off by a rude casino host. That's a 45 minute to hour and a half drive to "slum." We won't keep them if something better shows up close to home.

In the larger cities nearby, some of the casinos have karaoke. Their pay can range from $200 as an employee or $300 and up for an independant contractor. There are also some large, nice clubs with big dance floors that have karaoke aimed at the younger crowd. I haven't talked to those hosts yet about their salary range but I'm sure it is up there.

We just got a tip from a singer visiting from the city that a casino is looking for hosts for 6 nights a week at $300/night. Sounds like it's time to try to take a step up on "the career path."

Heres a short review on Deann's show at SPOT 79.

-Small stage
-Professional laser lighting system
-Roomy dance floor
-Ample dance floor area seating
-SMALL CROWD in attendance(on a Friday night)
-Host has an upbeat, personable and welcoming personality
-Host is skilled and effective speaking on mic-clear, strong voice and distinctive style
-Good sound system, clean and clear, uses limiters on mics.
-Uses a CAVS System(so dont know about the 375K claim in the ad--if can attach such a storage device and capacity to a CAVS unit.
-Clean, well maintained songbooks(seemed to accuratety reflect what was actually on hand to sing---but again I question the 375K claim)
-Has a mic stand for singers
-Dont know if can use singers own discs or not
-Didnt have in songbook songs that I have on my own store-bought discs that I usually bring and sing.

General comments on SPOT 79:
This is a neighborhood pub/poolroom/eatery in a ROUGH section of SE Portland.
Been there YEARS AND YEARS.
An older building in need of a remodel.
A ROUGHNECK crowd frequents this place.
Bar/wait staff seemed freindly, prompt and helpful.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

"It seems to me it would be hard to replace Deanne for $50.00 a night with such a large karaoke selection. OMG I Love Portland."

Just think back to your enjoyment at the FARMHOUSE, Dan!!

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

"Karaoke: Low cost entertainment for low class venues?"

SEE ALSO:........"LOW BUDGET".

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

More like the "NUT HOUSE".

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CHECK YOUR ATTITUDE AT THE DOOR, STICK AROUND YOU JUST MIGHT HAVE SOME FUN

Not in my area (NYC/Tri-State) unless you are seriously multi-rigging or have a permanent position at a true Karaoke Bar. It's basically my 2nd job that pays the grocery, kids activity, gas, date-night-with-the-wife money. That and the fact that I LOVE IT and truly enjoy seeing people sing Karaoke!

Dr Fred said it: karaoke is self-limiting: in a bar setting at least.

The future may be in private events, where the paycheck is generally better. for this to happen karaoke need to be seen by the general public as one of the mainstream form of entertainment.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

You may be correct..

My best paying gigs have been private..

They start @ $100.00 per hour plus any travel time, (both ways)..

Hey Swingman or Dangerous...

You both are writers and I have a great story idea. Just googling Portland I read Spinella's Off the Wall Karaoke had a 375,000 song selection too at the M & lounge. Is this all part of a marketing sham or does this Deanne and Spinella's realy have that large of a "karaoke" music library. Iggy's in Brooks claims to have 600,000 karaoke songs and Mac place in Silverton 200,000 karaoke songs. I didn't think there is over 180,000 karaoke songs available with all manu's put together and that's including laser discs / video karaoke.
The scond part to the story is to find out if there is a coralation between song library selection and price to hire these karaoke companies.
Finally, because they have invested so much into the music did they scrimp or splurge on the sound system.
I hear all these nubers for song selections thrown out in front of the public but I think people would be interested. I think on another thread there was a mention of only 59,000 karaoke titles available at the time.

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CHECK YOUR ATTITUDE AT THE DOOR, STICK AROUND YOU JUST MIGHT HAVE SOME FUN

But IMHO getting $150 a night *is* "poorly". My point was you have to look at the patronage of most karaoke bars. They're not there to spend $6 for an imported beer and $10 for a call cocktail. The owner has to allocate entertainment dollars based on potential income for the evening. It's not likely that there will be enough ROI to pay a host $250+ no matter HOW good they are, because the drink prices don't warrant it, even with a full house.

In LA LA land, I don't doubt there are a few upscale karaoke showcases because it's the land of showbiz. Singers there can actually be "discovered" for paying gigs - even if it's only for singing backup at a jingle studio.


As has been said, the real money is in private events. It's not unusual for me to be paid $800+ for hosting a private party. So there's no way I would commit every Saturday night to a $200 bar. My curiosity was about available income from Sunday-Thursday venues.


I have to disagree. I just did a local dive for about 10 weeks and was never able to get very many beyond the few regulars who already patronized the bar to show up. I was replaced by another KJ with worse gear, worse selection, who is working for less; checked him out last week and there seemed to be the exact same number of people in there - all the usual regulars.


But what about for those KJs who aspire to MAKE $600 for ourselves at the end of the night? (Or at least half that amount!) You would think that bringing in a music library worth $5K+ and another $3K+ worth of sound gear would warrant that. I think I'm barking up the wrong tree.

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

375,000 Songs? That must include five versions of Alvin and the Chipmunks doing My Way.

It seems a higher wage place will either involve much more expensive drinks, or a bigger crowd buying normal priced drinks. Has anyone been to Japan? What kind of establishments host karaoke there?

A bar can sing up a kj as an intelligent decision, or they can sign one up in desperation thinking it will bail out an already failing business (and who knows, maybe it will). The nice thing about karaoke is you potentially can have a lot of variety (even 375,000 perhaps), whereas with a live band, the number of new songs and covers they play can be limited.