Karaoke Forums

So I've got a regular gig that I've been playing for some time now. When I started and for the first couple years, this place was rocking on Karaoke nights. I had a lot of singers, many regulars, and it was always a lot of fun.

Then the bar stopped advertising Karaoke the way they had. It still shows up in a few places but it's no longer listed on their website and there's rarely any advertising in the bar. Still through that I continued to bring in good crowds that kept me busy on most nights.

Then a few months ago, they raised their prices. Some drinks as much as doubled in price!!! Since that time I've seen a very significant and steady decline in the crowd on the nights I play there. Many of my regulars are rarely seen anymore. Of those that have shown up, a number of them have commented to me that they simply can't afford to come out as often. Some of them will come and sing a song or two, maybe have one or two drinks then leave.

This all culminated recently when I had probably my worst night ever as a KJ. The bar was not very busy at all. There were only a handful of singers in bar and most left after the first hour. A couple regulars showed up late in the night and did a couple songs. Other than that, I was pretty much the jukebox in the corner. Ignored completely. I sang a number of different tunes, all sorts of different genres, some tried and true songs that work well at this bar and some new stuff too. Nothing. I even did a tribute to the troops with members of a War Veteran's Motorcycle club in attendance and nothing!! I was at a complete loss, everything I've learned to do over the years failed this night. I could not engage the people at all, even after walking through the whole bar and talking to just about every person there.

This has me worried about the future of this gig. I've NEVER had a night like that before. I've had some epically dead nights in new venues, but never have I been ignored by a group of people like this. It was clear that the folks in the bar simply had no interest in what was going on; the regular Karaoke crowd (both singers and watchers) was completely absent. Now I always put the blame for the performance of the show on me (even when the bar apologizes for a small crowd). It's my job to bring the people in after all. But in this case I can't help but think this bar has put me in an impossible situation. I can't make money for them because it seems they've driven out the crowd that used to bring in the money.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Most places in the area where I go to karaoke bars charge around three to four dollars for a beer and around 5 or 6 dollars for a mixed drink. There's is one place that charges five dollars for a beer and much higher prices for mixed drinks. I don't see too many of the same people at the expensive place that I see at the lower priced venues. I don't go the the higher priced place as often as I go to the other places. I can EAT and DRINK at one place and spend less than what I spend just on Drinks st the more expensive place. In these economic times, people are looking to cut a few corners when it comes to their entertainment dollars. Why spend $60 when you can spend $30? Just because the place has nice chandeleirs??

We have experienced a drop in our Monday night crowd. I sat down and made a list of the people who don't come in anymore - many have moved, many have changed jobs that require them to be in bed early, many are unemployed, many have DUIs and can't drive, etc. etc. Part of it is the economy and it is affecting everyone differently.

Advertising is key -- if people don't know karaoke is offered at a place, they just won't go there to see. If I spent time driving around in my area, relatively rural, and stopped at every bar to see if there was karaoke, I'd spend the whole evening driving.

I understand your concern, Letitrip...Who knows how long this will last? Unemployment in our area is pretty high and those people definitely aren't out spending money (these are people who used to bring in $50-60G a year and are now on 'unenjoyment.') I can't say I've ever experienced the kind of night you describe here - hopefully that will turn around for you. Have you had a head-to-head with the owner/manager about their methods? Sounds like they've gotten a little greedy and it has turned around and bit them in the butt.

Tony, what you've described is almost exactly what I just have been going through with my Friday show. Prices through the roof, no advertising, and a general feeling of "who cares". First thing, IMO I believe it is NOT our jobs as hosts to get people in the door, it is the owners and the management to fill seats with things like advertising, providing good entertainment, etc. But it IS our jobs to keep them there once they have arrived inside with our personalities, friendliness and our hosting skills. With the economy the way it is these days, it has made it harder and harder for business that are deemed "secondary" in necessity to draw a good customer base. Hence, the lack of advertising and raised prices. It's a catch 22, they need customers to spend money to pay for these expenses, but because there are fewer customers, they have to generate more money with the few people that attend. Raising prices and cutting advertising is usually the first things that pop into their heads as answers to the problem. Not a surprise coming from most of these owners who have a lack of business skills.

The gig that did the same thing for me as it has for you, I did something kind of bold. I just stopped caring, honestly. Because it was tearing me up, thinking that it was my fault. But in fact, I had no control at all. I actually just basically walked away, hiring a gal to fill in for me, in hopes that her using my proven system (my selection and equipment), would draw some new faces just for her. Well, it's been two months now, and even with the colder weather supposedly bringing people indoors, it hasn't changed head count much at all. Meaning, this place is "dead".

Now i'm not saying you should do the same thing by walking away, but just maybe a good talk with management with your concerns is in order. If you have been there this long, then you probably have a good relationship with them. If they are smart people they will take your concerns and weigh the options. But one week of horrid response is really not a good indication of any trend. If it's been dying for quite some time, then that's a totally different story.

The economy has hit most business' one way or another, and people these days are spending less money on things they don't need. People in general I believe are just plainly being more responsible with what few extra dollars they have to spend.

Good luck,
Scott

We have been living through a bit of that ourselves. The economy thing hit and the bar owner was all over the place--he switched out bar tendresses and we lost her following and had to build again. He started trying live bands and we would have to build back up again. He raised the drink prices when nearby casinos practically give it away and everyone got angry. He got a letter from some organization that scared him into telling Mr. 100,000 songs who had a week night show to hit the road. That got some people thinking it was unfair and they followed him next door and now we have karaoke wars. He lost interest, wanted to sell, put the minium out front on his sign as far as advertising--he seemed to want to put it all on us as far as things being a success.

It wasn't an ideal situation but we got a bit of experience in making a few people think they were having a good time. The last 6 weeks in a row we had crowds and our till was beating the live music. Then last night we had a crowd that seemed to be having the time of their life--dancing to almost every song, men dancing on the bar, people doing funny things, everyone interacting with each other--but all they bought were pitchers of beer and the till was terrible. Who knows?

We have also had nights where these exact same people who were going wild didn't even clap for singers. Just dead after the song. LIke you, we tried all the usual tricks and ended up just having to ride it out. They were back in party mode the next week. Who knows?

There are plenty of inexpensive ways to advertise your karaoke show yourself if you think that that is a big factor.

1) Talk to the management about putting karaoke back on their Website (FREE). They probably just forgot about it last time they redesigned the site.

2) Ask the management if they'll let you put table tents on the table. You can make your own table tents at home on MS Publisher or even MS Word/Open Word for the cost of the paper and ink (I'd say about $3.00).

3) Make a facebook page advertising your karaoke and start putting your facebook address everywhere you can (song slips, table tents, song books, CompuHost screens, etc.). All that costs you is time.

I just find that the owners rarely think it is the bar's responsibility to advertise the show. Right or wrong, I'd say that is the prevailing attitude. So, you have to make the choice to find some creative ways to get your name out there, or decide that it is not worth it, and go find a bar that is more proactive.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

True. But if the higher priced venue offers a better service to the singers (eg. higher quality sound/karaoke experience, plays customer's disks), then it can well be worth spending a little extra for a more enjoyable evening.

And with those same attributes, make them want to keep returning.

Thanks for the thoughts, I do appreciate the ideas. I currently have a Facebook and MySpace page for my Karaoke business and I do regularly advertise through there (posting events and such) I also post regular ads on Craigslist and on certain Karaoke related sites. I have an email newsletter that goes out monthly as well. So I do what I can outside of the bar.

Now the bar thing is a totally different issue. They intentionally stopped advertising Karaoke. The owner tried to give me an explanation but it really made no sense. I really can't explain why, but it puts me at a serious disadvantage. I'll admit that I have wondered (and this is only conjecture) if maybe they're trying to skirt around paying ASCAP/BMI/etc or something. I can't come up with another reason why they wouldn't want advertise more.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Times are tough and there are only a few ways to make more profit
Increase your Volume of Business
Increase your Prices
Lower you Costs

The last 2 are the easiest for a lazy business owner and is a short term fix but eventually creates a downward spiral effect of LOWER VOLUME and LESS SERVICES that will KILL any business.

On the flip side I've been saying for awhile that the traditional KJ needs to evolve into a more FELXIABLE form of entertainment to keep employed. ( NO NEED TO ARGUE) there are plenty of shows out there that are 100% karaoke and THRIVING ......for now. Maybe it's a weeidng out process that eventually only the strongest KARAOKE shows will survive ???? As far as advertising ..BUY YOURSELF AN A AFRAME SIGN with letter board and create your own sign and leave it in front of the bar all week long

Speaking of advertising - I'm looking for either a sign that I can buy or have someone make me - something that I can put in a window that flashes "Karaoke" visible on the street outside. Anybody know where I can find one? Doesn't have to be neon but obviously that will be easier to find. I don't really want to make one...
About a foot tall and maybe 18 inches wide? Nothing huge. I haven't looked yet but thought I'd check here before I spend hours investigating on the 'net.

Sounds to me like the owner has lost interest in karaoke. First he stops advertising, then he runs the REGULARS out by raising drink prices, but the thing that would worry ME the most, is that the customers that are still frequenting the place have NO INTEREST in karaoke. That is something to worry about. If you have a good show, and can get a few friends to help fill a few seats, that MIGHT work for a couple weeks, but if the INTEREST isn't there SYONARA. Turn out the lights, the party's over. No matter how good your show is, if you can't get people in the bar interested, you're DONE.

Srnitynow

This used to be available at karaoke.com, but now at:

http://www.buyasign.com/3545

Also a larger one:

http://www.savinglots.com/lotprod.asp?item=ACTASIGN

And one that does double duty:

http://www.savinglots.com/lotprod.asp?item=ACTAK2L2

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Well, thanks! Question answered. Will order one today.

When my venue recently had to raise prices because of taxes I saw a slight decline than it picked up again. Probably because all the bars had to raise their prices. We just did it relatively first. It definately can kill a crowd.

Usually I see this type of move when a venue wants to be upscale. They raise prices and tote better food, entertainment and service. They want to bring in the high price clientel. If this happens it's like building a new crowd in a brand new venue. If they don't follow it up with better service and advertising it can kill the bar.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

It's pretty difficult to provide you with productive suggestions in this situation. I don't know anything about the crowd you use to draw. Do you have email, phone or other type of contact information for any/many of them. Was the regular crowd comprised of several larger groups or was it a bunch of individuals. Were they "serious singers" or people just out to have fun? Was there one genre of music that the crowd enjoyed hearing over another? Was there one type of musical genre most singers preferred to sing?

And it seems to me you have several concerns:
1. Can get you old crowd back?
2. If you can't get the old crowd back can you build a new crowd?
3. And what has to be done, specifically, to regain the old crowd or to build a new one?
4. Will the new prices undermine any effort to resurrect karaoke?
5. And while you are working to re-establish the show, what can you do so as not to become a fixture in the corner?

With all that is going on, let me make a couple of suggestions that will hopefully help without creating a burden for you. Find songs that you believe will go over as sing-alongs. For example, if you have a crowd that likes country I know the following song will stimulate any audience: You Never Even Call Me By My Name; Family Tradition;and Margaritaville.

Queue up a sing-along and then welcome everyone/anyone to come up and grab a mic, hopefully you have at least two mics. If not, pick up a couple of cheap mics and hand them to the folks coming up for the sing-along. Believe me, the quality of the mic doesn't matter in such a circumstance. Better yet, get a couple of cheap cordless mics and head out into the audience with them. Again, quality doesn't matter and there are reliable and cheap cordless mics! By the way, if you have karaoke tracks with the vocals, I would use them rather than the instrumental version of the song!

As to additional promotions, can you put a sign on the road in front of the place that says "Karaoke Tonite"? This may not produce much, but it's an inexpensive and easy approach to spreading the word. I do this and while rarely has anyone told me the sign brought them in, the potential results cannot be ignored. Just imagine that it might bring in one carload of people that wouldn't have otherwise known you were doing karaoke that night! And how about a sign hanging on the bldg? As you know the beer/alcohol people will put their name on the sign and pay it!

Because of the past success of your show, management became complacent about how much promotion the karaoke show requires. Now that the show needs promoting, management is reluctant to do so. For reasons they haven't been able to explain to you, they won't advertise. I don't think you'll get a straight answer. Maybe they are dire financial straits and embarrassed to say so? It doesn't matter, because whatever the reason, they will do or not do whatever they want!

I wish I could offer more for your consideration, Letitrip, but there are too many unknowns. As I am sure you know, rejuvenating a show that is in decline is not likely to happen unless the conditions behind the downward trend are only temporary and mostly coincidental. In other words, the show is salvageable if it is not actually dying but just ran into a set of bad circumstances all at the same time.

Best of luck!

Also check E-Bay
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid ... Categories

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

The problem with a Karaoke show is that the Karaoke is only a part of the thing that gets people in the door.

We have to realize that Karaoke does not appeal to most people, and building a show takes time. During that time one needs good advertising, either by word of mouth or other means.

People also need to have a good time when they go to the karaoke show so that they become regulars. Except in locations with a lot of travelers, most of the people are going to come to a show because of word of mouth or previous visits, not advertising (not to say the 20-30% advertising may bring are not important too).

Once you get a show that works, changing things can drive away the old crowd (like a price increase) and without advertising a new crowd may not come in. Also without a crowd it is hard to build a crowd, showing up and being one of only 2-3 singers at a karaoke show is not for everyone.

Wow, great - will try one of the $9.99 buy it nows first - can't lose on that. Perfect size, too. Never thought of E-bay. Thanks for the heads-up, Lonnie.
/k

Here is a Christmas present for Swingcat.

http://cgi.ebay.com/m119-Karaoke-Singin ... 4a9bb485ca

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]