Karaoke Forums

Lon,
There are no doubt some lazy KJ's and just BAD KJ's in general just as many as there are whiney and moronic singers. I remember starting out in the business carrying 2 racks of equipment 4 cases of cdgs and 1 of cds just to run my show.
I've heard all the excuses you mentioned but I never offered any of those that would lead anyone to think I was cheap or lazy. I went to PC for the same reason many KJ's did...simplicity. At one of my previous shows I hooked up a cdg player every week until I realized it wasn't getting any usage. So I made a decision to leave it home. I can honestly say in that time I maybe had 3 or 4 singers approach me with their own cdgs. All of them were very understanding and continue to come in from time to time. I have no problem hooking it up again in the future if its needed.

Mike W -- Yes I agree singers are the show and Karaoke is all about the singers.
But to be a KJ is more than just catering to singers ..it's a business and each venue and show are unique with unique problems. KJ's need to do what they feel is in their best interest
But to think just because a KJ has one show a week is an indication of their ability is wrong. Many KJ's choose to work only one show a week.

[quote="jamkaraoke @ November 11th 2009, 9:35 pm"][quote="BruceFan4Life @ Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:22 pm"][quote="jamkaraoke @ November 11th 2009, 5:03 pm"]Bruce

I Apologize --I'm starting to understand that you either are mentally challenged and or on some medications that are just not working. If I felt the need I would hook up a cdg player .. I don't feel the need . It's not an EGO thing with the KJ's its an EGO thing with singers like you that expect everything. If you want a show like Lonnies -GO TO LONNIES SHOW. Are you that dense that you want to keep arguing and trying to tell people how to run their business? As a KJ I don't care about what whiney singers have to say but will discuss the show with owners and management on how best to present the show. I pride myself on knowing whats best for my Karaoke NIGHTS ..right now its no cdg player. Thats my CHOICE as a KJ in the future it may change. I'm not against singers with discs ...I've said this many times but you are too stupid to understand and want to keep attacking and insulting my show. I'll take it from where it comes. You keep up your record by showing everyone here what an idiot your are ... GO ahead I wait your next moronic post !! :laughatthat: :laughatthat: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:[/quote]

I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT I'M BEING CALLED MORONIC AND AN IDIOT BY A GUY WHO SPELLS ON A THIRD GRADE LEVEL. Oh well, I'll live as I take it from where it comes. LOL[/quote] Bruce good one !!! however you spell it you are what you are[/quote]

That's Right....and what I am is THE CUSTOMER...and the CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT....whether you like it or not. Ask your BOSS. CUSTOMERS keep you employed. Your BOSS does NOT want YOU to lose ANY CUSTOMERS because every lost CUSTOMER = LOST REVENUE. You are like a chef that doesn't know the difference between well done and medium rare. The customer may eat the steak that you prepared poorly, but he won't come back again. He may tell the owner on the way out that his steak was over cooked when had asked for it medium rare and it might just cost the chef his job in the long run if enough people complain about the same thing. I really would love it if your BOSS could see how you treat a potential CUSTOMER OF HIS. I think your BOSS would love to have me as a customer at his restaurant. I think he would enjoy listening to me sing and I think he'd make sure that you brought in a CDG player if it would keep me coming back......because I am a good CUSTOMER. I EAT WHEN I'M OUT. I DRINK WHEN I'M OUT AND I CAN SING PRETTY WELL EVEN IF I HAVE TO SAY SO MYSELF. I don't think that your BOSS would mind it one bit that I brought my own music with me. By my second or third trip to your show, I'd be singing the owners favorite songs even if you didn't have them. Last Friday alone, I had the KJ buy me a drink, the Bartender buy me a drink and the Owner buy me a drink. They had all asked me to sing songs that the KJ didn't have but I had them and sang them for them. YES! The KJ asked me to sing USE SOMEBODY by the Kings Of Leon. The guy he works for hasn't updated since he bought his hard drive(cough cough) a couple years back. I trust the KJ enough to hand him my thumb drive without worrying about him trying to copy any songs from it. He would rather have me as a regular customer....and so would his BOSS. They make great food there and the best Sangria too. That's just ONE of my favorite places to go to.....but the KJ does play some filler music. Too much filler music for my liking but I like the crowd and the atmosphere so I go back on a regular basis. I know that every show is not going to be perfect in my eyes but if you don't ask for change, you will never see any change. There have been nights when no one was dancing to the filler music so I pointed it out to him and that was the end of the filler music for the evening. That is one accommodating KJ. All the singers appreciated getting to sing an extra song or two.

I'd like to find the idiot who said "the customer is always right". Love to kick him or her in the ***. That is the most moronic saying there is. I have told clients in my day job off when necessary.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

I respect your experience but EVERY dj/kj gets told at some point FOR VARIOUS REASONS that they're good or appreciated. Even very good to excellent. LIP SERVICE. -not to say that everyone lies or embellishes but don't always believe it from the inebriated.

AGAIN (every reply to you?) I am on an ISLAND which is extremely transient daily surrounded by more bars than some small cities have.
I should have stated THOSE numbers in a previous post as the SLOW SEASON rotation versus the extremely BUSY SUMMER MONTHS.

And again, through experience, i WOULD NOT WANT to have 30+ rotation of singers because it will eventually backfire on you and people will go elsewhere to wait LESS than 2 hours to sing...unless you're the only show around, or have a large and excellent venue, or are able to create the commradery/family connection which is more difficult in this ever changing world.

BTW i will mention that a few of my regulars are working/singing professionals and most of my singers are very good. I don't look to fill my venue with young-drunk-filler-karaoke people who drink one beer and leave. A steady flow of regular spending professionals is better than a barfull of bar crawlers. HERE in HAWAII anyways!

...so let's choose NOT to go there....okay?

As the person who originally opened this Topic Thread, I wish to state the following: This topic thread IS NOT about how the KJ operates his/her/their show/s (or how they should operate it).

That being said, I am going to ask this once more.

Please CEASE AND DESIST this direction of conversation. If you can't do that, then I am asking that you (the KJs) please stop responding to those particular posts. This topic thread is NOT about you (the KJ), so stop trying to justify how you run your show... PERIOD!!!


Now, getting back to the intent of this thread... This is what I can ascertain as our (Singers who bring their own discs) options:



1. Contact the KJ before you go out to that particular show. Find out if the KJ can accommodate you by playing your personal discs.

My general experience with this option is, you MUST contact the KJ, and NOT the Venue. With regard to contacting a Venue, it has been my experience that most of these Venues don't know what's going on. There are different shifts, and 1 hand doesn't talk to the other. Some of these people don't even know what night they have Karaoke there, because it's not when they are working, and they could care less. That being said, it's tough enough to get information from the Venue as to when the Karaoke show is actually happening, but to ask them how the KJ operates (PC, discs, etc...) OMG!!!!!!!!!!

Arguments against this:
A. The disc might not play (or is too damaged to play) on that KJ's machine. Thus, it makes it look like the KJ runs a poor show because it's their fault when your disc skips and all other discs play perfectly all night long. Please note, I mention that everything else plays fine, meaning there is nothing wrong with the KJ's player... Yes, as a KJ, I have received poor discs to play from others. I look the disc over before I even put it in my machine, and I will even clean the disc first (if I think it needs it). If I think the disc won't play, I will give it back to that person with an explanation.




2. The KJ can not play discs. OK, bring in a Flash drive or Thumb drive (do I have the right terminology here?).

The arguments given against this are:
A. The KJ may copy my files and not delete them, thus, he will now add them to his personal library (at no cost to him) for future use .
B. The device you are giving to the KJ may contain a virus, and the KJ does not want to risk that.
C. The program that the KJ is using can not open/export/play your files.
D. The KJ will only do that for someone who has been to their show several times... not for a first-timer or 1-time visitor.



3. Contact the KJ ahead of time (before going to the show), and see if he is willing to copy your disc onto his PC (either by borrowing the disc or by accepting e-mailed files), so that you have it there whenever you decide to go to that show again.

The arguments against this are:
A. It is illegal to do this... copyright laws and all that good stuff. Still, if you (the Singer) are willing to do this, and you (the KJ) are willing to take the risk, well, that's between the 2 of you. Nobody else needs to know your business.
B. I paid for this disc. Why should I just give it away to somebody else for free? Well, if you don't have any other options open to you, think of it this way..... you bought the disc to use, and now you can't use it. How much money did you just throw out? At least you can get your money's worth of usage out of the disc if you make some allowances.
C. The KJ will only do that for someone who has been to their show several times... not for a first-timer or 1-time visitor.


4. Leave the place and find another place that does accept personal discs. Also, complain to Management, and tell them why you are leaving.



5. Sing from the KJ's selections. With all of the songs that he/she/they have in their library, there must be something you can find to sing. After all, when you stop to think about it, how many songs are you actually going to get to sing in the course of a 4 hour show? 2 songs? 3 songs? 10 songs (if the place is really dead)?

The arguments given here are:
A. I'll stay for this visit, but the chances are, I'll probably never return. There is a possibility I might return if the show was entertaining enough and other factors came into play (such as good sound system, KJ had a good personality, etc...).
B. I'm leaving! Goodbye!
C. The KJ doesn't have the Manu version that I like to sing from.

My general experiences from this option are that a lot of KJs don't list all of their songs (I'm not referring to duplicates), and worse yet, they don't list the Manu versions. I WILL NOT blindly sing from a version that I am not familiar with, or worse yet, a version that the KJ believes to be superior, when they don't know any better. If that makes me a Diva, so be it! It's part of MY ENJOYMENT to sing from what I am familiar with, and like EVERY OTHER SINGER there, I am out to have a GOOD TIME. I am not crazy about constantly going up to the KJ to ask what version is this song on and what version is that song on, etc... At one show, where I did that, the KJ conveniently LOST MY SONG SLIP because she deemed me a P.I.T.A. for constantly asking.


Have I missed any options here, or are there some others that we can discuss (without demanding that the KJ should be expected to operate their show that way)?




PS: I have added 2 or 3 more comments in this post that weren't there before. This is based on 1 or 2 posts that followed this.

If a KJ couldn't play my discs I would just let the boyfriend sing and I would dance. The boyfriend can sing cold from a book. I have a lot of trouble doing that so it would keep me out of the karaoke for the night. I've tried to sing a song I know from the book and sometimes I'm OK and other times I can't find the key. I don't die but i would just rather sing the songs I love with the musical background that I've researched and chosen because it excites me. It wouldn't be a place I would want to return to just because it would leave me out of having as much fun.

I put a lot of time and money into our song library and books but it doesn't offend me that people bring their own songs. It isn't MY show as much as we are trying to facilitate other people being the show.

Most of my regulars will stay the whole night and are NOT bar hoppers, doing one drink and leave. They know that usually they have to wait on over an hour or more before their turn, and most stay for some time after their turn. In fact most of the bar crawler types are driven away by the long rotation, leaving the bar to serious singers and their fans.

I do get my share of professionals in fact on an average night 1/4 or more of the singers are current or former members of touring bands that have been paid to perform. Sure some of them may not have been very sucessfull bands (yet) but my avereage singer takes music seriously.

I don't just get complements from staggering drunks like you suggest, a lot of the complements come at the BEGINNING of the night or when I chance upon people from my shows in the daytime. The main complement is that they keep going back to my show, a decision they make sober.

I did not choose to "go there" YOU DID. Not only that after insulting my experience or crowd one way, you turn around and try to denegrate it in another way. You may or may not have a great show, I don't know, we all work under different conditions and expectations. But we are all entitled to express opinions about what works for our show. If you need a CD player at your show Im not stopping you.

I stated an opinion based on my observation about what is the situation and what worked in MY SHOW and other shows I have visited, and at MY SHOW playing CDS is not important. I can make a generalization about what happens in my area just like you can in yours. YOU ARE THE ONE THAT COMMENTED ON MY LEVEL OF EXPERIENCE.

And no the numbers of 30+ are not a special season, or anything special for my show. In fact I would have to go back almost a year to a night with an ice storm to fall below a rotation of 20.

As for Cueball, the starter of a thread does not control the direction it goes. Face it the conversation on how KJs operate is of interest to more than a few people here based on the level of respose. Most threads that get more than 10 or so responses change direction from the origional post to some degree.

As this conversation has moved into the subject, some KJs have made comments, negatively about how others run their show, their profesionalism or experience. We are entitled to defend our actions, and our reputations.

The interest of the singers and KJs are interacting at this point. The question each KJ must ask, is keeping the person(s) with the CD happy worth it. For me where I live the rate is 1 per roughly 1000 singers so I will have to say no (as a kj). Your experience may be different. If the numbers were 1 in 100 people that wanted to play CDs I might change my setup. But at 1 in 1000 it would have to be no.

If the customer is always right then they can go and demand free drinks, see how many businesses will believe that customer to be "right". For me that 1 singer in 1000 would "cost" 2 hours of setup/takedown time (at 5 minutes a show). Not worth it.

Let me say that your synopsis is amazing and kudos to you for putting up with all of the BS while gleaning through it in order to extract the essence of what you had requested!

Yes, there are more possibilities. Let's say you're using the show's catalog and you find that it contains a multitude of song titles that you enjoy but no manufacturers are indicated........ speak to the KJ and tell him your concerns about who the manu is

Please note that what I am suggesting, IMHO, is probably going to be UNacceptable if the KJ doesn't use bumper/filler music, but rather has one singer starting immediately after the other

Ask if you can have a couple of different titles gueued up at the same time and will he let you see if either is from a manu you prefer at the time when you come up to sing?
Ask if he is using a hosting program (such as Latshaw's) that does a search and replace? This function searches for and provides alternative files for the same song and can immediately replace the queued version with any of the alternatives
If his software will not accommodate an automatic search and replace, ask the Kj if he will do a search and replace himself for you if you find that the manus on both of your queued selections are unacceptable?
If he won't do an immediate "manual" replacement will he let you, while the next person comes up to sing, pick two more songs and return to the stage after that singer to repeat the process?
Lastly, ask yourself if you're willing to lose you turn if the KJ can't/won't accommodate an immediate replacement replacement and asks you to "sit down" or would you rather just do the best you can with an "unknown" version of the song?

[quote="cueball @ Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:27 am"]
My general experiences from this option are that a lot of KJs don't list all of their songs (I'm not referring to duplicates), and worse yet, they don't list the Manu versions. I WILL NOT blindly sing from a version that I am not familiar with, or worse yet, a version that the KJ believes to be superior, when they don't know any better. If that makes me a Diva, so be it! It's part of MY ENJOYMENT to sing from what I am familiar with, and like EVERY OTHER SINGER there, I am out to have a GOOD TIME. I am not crazy about constantly going up to the KJ to ask what version is this song on and what version is that song on, etc... At one show, where I did that, the KJ conveniently LOST MY SONG SLIP because she deemed me a P.I.T.A. for constantly asking.

quote]

While I try very hard to accomidate my singers, but when a non-regular planning a first visit goes to such an excess as prior contacts regarding a song (beyond privately checking the songlist online), I would begin to worry about them being an overly demanding singer.

Sure it is about the singers enjoyment, but not just ONE singer's enjoyment but the whole crowd, especially the regulars. While I would not go so far as to toss a song slip, I do not belive a Diva deserves any better treatment than anyone else. Especially a self appointed Diva who I have never even met before.

I do my best with everyone but if a single singer is demanding far more attention by the KJ than average, it detracts from the show overall.

As KJs most of us try to hide it when a singer is really annoying us (for whatever reason), but it still can bring down the energy of the show. The enjoyment of one singer should not overly detract from the enjoyment of the others, even if indirectly by annoying the KJ.


As for the options listed 1-3, as a KJ, I probably would not accomidate someone as a first time visitor, although I might do a lot for them once they become a regular, probably buying the requested songs myself. As for option 4, the managment and I would probably have a good laugh about it at closing time and he certainly would not ask me to change my style. That is if you can get time to talk to the management as he is usually busy serving the drinks.

As the Author of this topic thread, I may not control the direction this topic goes in, but I can can surely ask/request/tell everyone to steer it back in the direction it was intended. If you feel the need to defend your stance as a KJ, or, (as you put it) "...the conversation on how KJs operate is of interest to more than a few people here based on the level of respose.", you are more than welcome to open your own topic thread rather than to tell me to go **** myself (which is what I interpreted from your last 2 posts, where you rambled on and on all about YOU and YOUR show.






Although I will credit you with one thing (you state that you have your song list ONLINE... not many KJs that I know of do that), my general impression of what you state here is, you don't do a whole lot to keep a new customer. You clearly state that you are NOT willing to accommodate a new Singer at all (even one who would go to the added effort of contacting you ahead of time). So much for me wanting to stop by and check out your show if I'm ever vacationing in your area. Yes... there are those one-time visitors who do come by on vacation, and I would rather look up someone that I've had some interaction with on these Forums than to go to a total stranger's show.

pssst...BFFL said it

I know this may look like a (side track) to the subject, but I don't see it that way. As a karaoke host that has a (limited) song library, about 10,000 (seperate) titles, I find it REDICULOUS to EXPECT the host to have not only the song that you want in their library, BUT also the SPECIFIC version. IMO this is why people are buying 100,000 song libraries, so they KNOW they can accomodate YOU. If not, they can do a better job than I can with ONLY 10,000. I list every song I have (once) in my books, but may have 10 versions of that song. In the front of my book I mention this, all the singer has to do is ASK if I have the version they want to sing. Sounds to me that some of you are taking it just a little too seriously, instead of going out to have FUN. I know, if you can't sing YOUR (specific) song on the (specific) version, you CAN'T have FUN. I know, I get it!!!! I do have a player, but what if your disc doesn't play on it, am I STILL a terrible host, and are you STILL going to tell the manager? Remember, WE'RE dealing with a WHOLE BUNCH of personalities at each show. The guy before you may have been a TOTAL jerk, so when making ALL of these DEMANDS, stop and think about what we're going through to put on a GOOD show for EVERYONE, and maybe (for that one night) pick something from our LIMITED SELECTION. Believe me, WE DO APPRECIATE IT!!!!

Srnitynow

Bruce
Yes you are the customer !!! Let me see if I get this right .... As a customer you've posted negatives feedback on every show and venue you visit.

The KJ
Won't play my moonshine CD -
The KJ skipped me
KJ uses microphones that make me sound bad
KJ has a hardrive and must be a pirate

The Venue
Waitress ignored me
Prices are too high
They charged me for water

Here's a hint BRUUUCE....NO ONE LIKES A CHRONIC COMPLAINER ..ESPECIALLY THE OWNERS OR MANAGEMENT!!!
I wish I had a $1 for every time you posted you walked out of a show and will never go back....soon you'll have to go to PA to find a show that will let you walk in the door. Keep posting how important you are as a singer .....maybe someone will agree. As a KJ you can't please everyone and you can't worry about the 1 singer that gets away... That's life. I'll never lose sleep over not having a customer like you at any of my shows.

I truly apologize to all other members for the rantings here.
I will let BFFL have the last post calling me stupid and that will be it

Cue --hopefully you will find a viable solution to your dilema, I offered some constructive suggestions if you can get past the idea that the KJ is out to STEAL your music or giving them your requests on a thumb drive is equal to committing a felony. Not sure what else you really can do but visit shows with cdg players.


PEACE OUT

Irony,

As a singer you expect the KJ to change the way he runs his show to accomidate Your enjoyment. We all do that to some limit, but we all have a limit.

You stated your conditions as a singer, I replyed with my conditions as a host. We did not complete a mutually agreable trade. No, i did not intend to say " *** you go home" or anything half so crude, just no mutual agreement of conditions. You will shop elsewhere for Karaoke shows and I will go elsewhere for singers.


The funny thing is that for this thread you expect things to go "your" way. That is no different from a host running a show "his/her" way and not wanting to change to accomidate everyone else.

The time+energy+money to run a karaoke show is far more than starting a forum topic. If you cant accomidate others interests on a forum topic why should they accomidate your demands at a show.

This seems to be some pet peeve of yours; you've said it before. But... this is the first time you've shared how you have told customers off.

I guess you're not the owner at your "day job"? And unless you're the owner you wouldn't understand the importance of the adage - "The Customer Is Always Right". It helps to protect the owner from numskull workers who would destroy his business by not satisfying the customer, or worse, telling them off!

That wasn't one of my concerns. I just stated that in the arguments against those options (based on other people's posts).

The customer is always right statement should have fine print that reads. ( to a point) As a business owner of any sorts you primary concern is your CUSTOMERS in general. But everyone in their life had probably encountered those customers who are UNREASONABLE and OVER DEMANDING. A business owner should never be insulted or berated or cussed at by any customer. Customers have obligations too ...to act with common courtesy. It goes both ways..Thats GOOD business

In my experience, in most cases this is impractical if not impossible due to no information being readily available as to who is the host. And as stated, the venue would most likely not be able to divulge the required info.



I would not leave a venue for the sole reason they can't/won't play my tracks. However, the attitude of the KJ in responding to my polite request may well lead to me leaving. As seen in this thread, there are a few KJs who feel that a customer requesting their own disk being played is a show of contempt and disrespect for the KJ and will not hesitate in responding in a rude and undignified manner. In this case, as I would most certainly never return to this venue, I see little point in informing the management as to why I was leaving unless prompted to do so.



How about, "I'll stay for this visit, and may or may not return, depending on the selections available, the host's personality and professionalism, the venue's appeal, etc., etc."


PS. Would it be too much to ask of Jamkaraoke, Dr. Fred, and GeminiMALE (especially GeminiMALE) if they could let me know of their karaoke venues so that I can avoid wasting my time by turning up to one of their gigs.

My complaints are an effort to improve a show for EVERYONE. If your show is a B+ show; wouldn't you want it to be an A+ show if it were possible? I don't see how adding a CDG player to your rig hurts anyone at all, especially when you say that you already own three of them, Jam. If I complain about filler music delaying the rotation, I'm only trying to get more songs sung for everyone. If I complain about someone stealing my tracks....I think that is obvious. If people didn't complain about things that could be improved, we'd still be part of Great Britain.