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SO, I ASK: WHOSE CUSTOMER IS IT?
IS THE CUSTOMER THE KJ'S OR IS THE CUSTOMER THE VENUE'S?
WHAT IF LIKE BFFL THE CUSTOMER SPENDS A LOT OF MONEY?
WHAT THEN IF THE CUSTOMER SPENDS DIDLY?
AND IF THE CUSTOMER IS TRULY THE VENUE'S, HOW MUCH RESPONSIBILITY DO YOU HAVE NOT TO PISS OFF THE CUSTOMER?

The bars I have been at dont want EVERY person that has the money for a drink in the bar. Some people are offensive, violent, rude etc. Of course the definition of those classes are going to differ a lot from bar to bar.

I think the customer is the bar's and as a KJ it is the job to do a reasonable effort to accomidate the customer's interest. But customers do not have to be reasonable, especially when drunk.

Most businesses do not cater to EVERY customer, for example a bar probably will not be able to mix EVERY drink a customer may ask for. A logical business looks at the cost of keeping the customer happy and weighs that cost against what they will gain. If a customer wants a drink that is otherwise in limited demand, the bar would have to either price it higer (if the ingredients do not last) or decide not to serve it. The same with Karaoke, if the requests of the customer is going to cost more than they bring in, then it is not worth it to satisfy the customer.

Wow great questions.


SO, I ASK: WHOSE CUSTOMER IS IT?
IS THE CUSTOMER THE KJ'S OR IS THE CUSTOMER THE VENUE'S?

I consider them my customers as well as the venues.

WHAT IF LIKE BFFL THE CUSTOMER SPENDS A LOT OF MONEY?
WHAT THEN IF THE CUSTOMER SPENDS DIDLY?

For the most part I don't have knowledge of what people spend. I concentrate on filling the bar with bodies and keeping them there. I have a couple water drinkers I know, but how much people spend on drinks, food, pool etc... I have no idea.

AND IF THE CUSTOMER IS TRULY THE VENUE'S, HOW MUCH RESPONSIBILITY DO YOU HAVE NOT TO PISS OFF THE CUSTOMER?

The last thing I want to do is make customers angry. I want them to stay and have a good time.
The bar has rules and I have rules. If you aren't following the rules actions must be taken for the enjoyment of everyone, so if someone is angry because I'm enforcing those rules that's to bad. I try to be as patient as possible, but some people are just unreasonable. Usually the bartenders are having as much trouble as I am with these type of people and if they continue are asked to leave.

I have a good relationship with the owner and bartenders, and they always back me up. They know I run a fair rotation and would not tolerate a rotation complainer. Sometimes people think if they complain to the owner they'll get bumped up in rotation. Not at my venue. I try to not get mad at these people. I'll try to accomidate them in other ways like suggest they come in on a Wed or Sat when they don't have to wait an hour and half to two hours to sing. Sometimes just acknowledging to them that you understand it's frustrating to wait so long, but that you have a tough job making sure it's fair for everyone, is enough to calm them down. You do what you can to be nice, but if they get in your face screaming it's time for them to be cut off.

In a nutshell - I guess my answer is you can't make everyone happy, but I try. It is easier on me mentally that I know I won't be judge by the owner if there is a complainer because he trusts my judgement.

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Exactly, that could be cost-prohibitive. For instance, I've hosted in Irish bars where they have Guinness on tap, complete with those specially-shaped Guinness glasses. That's one of the features of their bar; people who like Guinness will go there especially for that. Someone coming into my bar venue will find several beers on tap, but no Guinness. If the customer wants it, he'll have to go elsewhere or make a choice from what's available.

As for "whose customer is it" I'd like to think that everyone who comes to my bar venue is there especially for my show. But the fact is, I've talked with several customers (via my Facebook and MySpace) who say as much as they love my show, they don't like the long waits to get a drink, or the sometimes rowdy crowd, the cleanliness of the bathrooms or a dozen other things that are not under my control.

I can do what I can to make my show entertaining and appealing, but IMHO the bottom line is they are the BAR'S customer. If the BAR doesn't offer what the customer wants (drink, food, service, atmosphere) it's not likely the caliber of any karaoke show alone will be enough for them to look past all that.

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As a person walking into a Venue, I am now the Customer of that venue. If there is entertainment at that Venue, then I am still the Customer of that Venue. The entertainment can take on many forms.

One form of entertainment could be the Video Machines, Pool Table, Dart Board, etc... that are in the Bar. The Bar is paying for those items to be there so that the Customer might be enticed to stay longer and spend more money. If I lose money in the machine, the Bartender (or Manager) will give me that money back (keep in mind, I am not referring to losing money (gambling) in those machines that are labeled "For Amusement Only," but that the Bars pay out for winnings).

Another form of entertainment is a Band performing, Open Mic Night, Karaoke, etc... These are the types of Entertainment that the Venue pays for with the same intent as mentioned above.... to keep the people in there longer and have them spend more money. Also, the added intent is to draw in new Customers to the place.

Now, just referring to the KJ, like the machines that provide some form of entertainment, the KJ is also providing a form of entertainment. The Venue has paid for this entertainment (just like they paid for the above-mentioned items (whether they leased them or bought them)). I am still a Customer of that Venue the minute I walked in the door. Even if I am participating in the Karaoke, I am not the KJ's Customer.... that is, unless the KJ is charging for me to sing (such as in Hawaii). The KJ is providing a service to the Venue (which they are getting paid to provide). That service is to keep the people entertained.

Now, if I am not spending money in the Venue, then it is up to Management to take a stance (let's not get into this here, as this is a whole different topic thread). I may come to the show because a specific KJ is there, but all that makes me is "A Regular" of that particular crowd (the KJ's "Following"). I may come to the Venue because they have Karaoke there that night, and that may just make me a "Newbie" to the place, but once again, I am still a considered to be a Customer of the Venue. The bottom line is, I am a Customer of the place that pays the bills and provides the means for me to want to stay. You (the KJ) are an end to that means.






Unique (and very true) stories.... I'm sure I've told this before, but I'll repeat it.

There are a few Venues where I am a Regular. I may show up once or twice a week (on Karaoke night), but everybody knows my name ("Cheers"... "Norm!"). Every once in a while, I get into a specific type of mood (before I have even gone out to the place). I want something different, which I know the Bar does not normally serve up (because they don't have all of the ingredients). I have actually come into 1 Bar with my own home-made Pina Colada mix, and asked them to add the alcohol. I have openly stated for them to charge me what they would normally charge for the drink regardless of the fact that I brought 1 of the ingredients in with me. I have also gone into a few bars with a recipe for a drink that most never would serve (because they never heard of it). I have even brought in Bananas and Ovaltine Malted mix (to add to that particular recipe). Guess what... They made it for me.

Another place where I liked to go, the Bartender couldn't stand making frozen drinks, so she would always tell me that the blender was broken. Well, one night, when I was in one of those mischievous moods of mine, I came in with my own blender (unbeknownst to the Bartender). I asked the Bartender if the blender was working, and she said, "No." When I pulled my blender out of my bag, her jaw just dropped. She made me my frozen drinks that night (and on subsequent nights after that). A few times, I even brought my Giant Margarita Glass (I think it holds about 48 ounces of liquid), and had her prepare me a super-sized frozen drink... I paid whatever price she deemed appropriate.


Now, I know that the only reason I could get away with the above was because I was a Regular Customer at those Venues. Just like some of you (KJs) have stated, that you will go the extra mile for a Regular as versus for a Newbie, if I were to walk into a strange place with my above requests, they would probably ignore me or just tell me to leave if I don't want to order what they have. I guess the phrase should be, "The Customer is always right when they carry some type of clout or recognition."

Dr. Fred, since you brought it up here first, I have to ask you this. You say that if "the requests of the Customer is going to cost more than they bring in..." You make it sound like you are personally losing money here. What are these Customers bringing in to you (other than your continued employment at that Venue)? You have already been paid for your services (by the Venue). Now, I am not asking/telling you that you have to hook up a player for CDGs, but based on what you just posted, what cost is involved in your hooking up an external player to accommodate those people that come in with their own discs?

The cost for the KJ is buying CD player for karaoke and the associated wires etc, and the time involved setting it up as I have stated. As a KJs most of us are paid to provide karaoke for a set timespan, setup time does not count. So setup time is a direct cost. Do the math, and how much is 5 minutes of your time at every show going to cost? At $120, for a 3 hour show that comes to 2 dollars EVERY SHOW.

The benefit at my venue is less than 1 additional satisfied singer every 130 shows based on number of requests. If they were more frequent I might re-consider.

The deal negotiated between the bar and the KJ is to provide a service at some set level, based on what the KJ has done in the past or promises to do. Now nearly every show could benefit to some extent by throwing money (or time) at it and that money is not going to be the venue's money it is going to be the KJ's money.

Sure my show would be better if I had invested $20,000 in the sound system instead of $4,000 on hardware. And that "improvment" might lead to one or two more happy singers. Same with buying another few thousand songs. But at some point it is all diminishing returns. Just because a $20,000 sound system might bring in 2 more singers a night does not require the KJ to spend $50,000 or $100,000 on a sound system just because it might make one more person happy.

If the bar wanted to hire a KJ setup to make sure that NO-one could ever find ANY fault with their setup, the KJ would have to spend a LOT of money on it, and the bar would have to pay a lot more to compensate the KJ. Most bars realize that the KJ with the super price setup may not bring in many more people to the bar than one with a more modest setup, and they are un willing to pay for the additional cost. The bar realizes that ADDITIONAL costs by the KJ beyond the minimum have to be paid for by the bar. Effectively what the bar is telling the KJ (based on the economics) karaoke is worth x dollars to them a night. Bring in 1 more singers and it is not worth 2x to the venue. If the cost to bring in the extra singer is not worth it to the bar they will not pay the KJ the extra costs to keep them happy.

So the question comes down to will buying an cdplayer so I can play customers disks, or any other investment make the venue happy enough to get me a raise as a KJ (or keep me employed if it is an important omission in the setup). The KJ have to look at it from that point of view. At the same time the bar is looking at it from the point of view that the one more happy customer is not worth paying the KJ some additonal money that the KJ will invest in their rig (either in time or money).

Based on my current rig, the next $300 I spend on it will go to other things that I think will provide the greatest benefit to the most customers. Changing the setup so I can play customer's cds is not making the cut as the most cost-effective way to spend that money. Based on my experience and is less likely to keep another few customers happy than spending it another way (on songs or improvments in the hardware). But we all have different setups, and different customer demands.

Any business KJ or venue will have limited funds that they can allocate to keep the most customers happy, they use their experience on how to allocate those resources. Spending enough to try to keep every customer happy is a good way to go bankrupt either as a KJ or a venue.

The customer may belong to the venue, but the venue has sub-contracted to the KJ to keep them happy as possible on a set budget.

I like and agree with the preceding. It's close to the conclusion I had drawn regarding this subject, before I actually started the thread.

Now, I ask a few more questions in light of and in agreement with the preceding.

Must a KJ do or provide what the customer expects simply because the customer knows that the expectation is do-able and believes it is reasonable?
What if the customer is more technologically knowledgeable in regard to that expectation than the person hosting the show is?
What if the host is more technologically knowledgeable than the customer in regard to that expectation and knows that he CAN'T accommodate the customer?
What if the host is an employee of someone else and hasn't the authority to accommodate anyone's requests?
What if the entertainment is a band and they didn't play your request even though you know the song is in their repertoire?
What if the entertainment is a band who after multiple requests from you, week after week, won't learn a "simple" song that you have requested?

Here is my $.02 on the "bar business"..as always there is no black or white

I've been to and worked at bars where BARTENDERS brought in a crowd, friends family etc. Without that bartender --those CUSTOMERS would not be there. Then there are those customers who frequent a BAR because they like the owner or live close by or like the bartender etc. And then on Karaoke Night there are customers and singers that GO just because of the KJ and their SHOW. They are either singers or listeners etc etc.
Each "employee" or contractor of the bar share a responsibility to EVERY CUSTOMER. Bartenders need to treat singers with respect and KJ's need to do the same for NON singers. Each employee or contractor has a JOB to do - in the case of KJ'ing it is to offer the opportunity to sing karaoke. Like in all business ..they should have th right to refuse service to anyone they choose. (Obviously for good reasons )

KJ's don't work for singers , KJ's don't serve singers ..They work TOGETHER to hopefully provide a great experiance. SO WHOSE CUSTOMER IS IT ...it depends

What is doable and reasonable is a two-way street.

With regard to playing a Customer's personal disc, I understand the arguments given from both sides. It isn't that difficult to do, but depending on how the KJ is set up, he might not have that capability to do so. The Customer has no way of knowing this beforehand (unless he contacted that KJ before coming to his show, or has been to that KJ's show in the past), and thus, as reasonable of a request that it may be, it is not doable in that case. The ball is now in the Singer's court as to what he decides to do... "Should I Stay or Should I Go."

Other things, such as sound adjustments are also reasonable requests. These types of requests may come from the more seasoned Singers and KJs attending a show. BUT, what may sound reasonable, for example, "Give me more reverb," might not be doable, because the KJ is already running a "Hot Mic." I know how to operate my system, and what I can and can't do on it. Unless you are running the exact same system as mine, I can't even begin to understand what kind of problem a simple request like that could cause. The Singer could be stupid-drunk, and making a simple (doable) request such as, "Turn my Mic Volume up," is not really a reasonable request (because nobody wants to hear a stupid drunk shouting over the Mic).

If the KJ can do it, and he has no real reason why he shouldn't do it, then it isn't a big deal to just do it. The KJ should be able to assess the situation, and then decide whether he should be expected to do it just on the Customer's say-so.




It's just rude for the Customer to come up to a KJ and start pointing out his short-comings (if the above is true). It's one quick way for the KJ to go out of his way to ignore you. Aside from that, how many of you KJs that are PC based let others come up and look at your operating system... especially while you're trying to run a show. To me, that is unheard of.





The KJ should know his own system and what he is capable of. If the Customer can't understand that, it's time to move on.





That is not out of the realm of possibilities. Sometimes, if the Host needs to open a new program (just to accommodate the Singer), it could lock the whole system. That could be a very good reason why the person operating the system was told by the owner of that system not to mess around with it. The host should politely explain that this is not his system, and (maybe) apologize for the fact that he is not allowed to make any modifications to how his show is run.




Well, if you tipped the Band to sing that song, it would be rude of them not to oblige. If you just asked them to sing it (without giving them anything for it), well, it's up to them if they want to work it into their routine that night. After all, a Band has already rehearsed what they plan to do in that evening's set. Even if it's a song that they have performed in the past, it just may not fit in their act that night, and the person requesting it has to understand that... Just like going to a concert, the Performer doesn't/can't sing every song that he/she is known for in the small amount of time they have allotted to them.




I think my answer would be the same as above.

A KJ doesn't have to do anything but let the singer sing.


A GOOD KJ should be able to accomodate most singer requests which fall in the parameters of that KJ's show. Tweak the Mix - add some EFX - wireless mics or Mic stand, turn up the music - lower the monitor yadda yadda yadda.
It's LIFE ..It's all about how you ask and the attitude both KJ and Singer bring to the show that night. The karaoke show presented is a reflection of the KJ/HOST.
Thats' why each show is not exactly the same. VARIETY --some like it one way others do not. Kj's either find a VENUE and customer base that FITS THEM or singers find a venue and KJ that fits them.

First and foremost the customers are that of the venue that I am hosting for. I strive to only work in venues with whom I share a similar philosophy about customer service. The closer we are as far as the similarity of our philosophy, the better the business relationship is, and the sweeter the success of my show within those walls.

I left a fairly long-term venue in the summer because I could see things starting to fall apart - owners separated, the wrong partner took it over, and it just wasn't a good place for me anymore so I left. I will not work under those conditions because if the venue is not doing everything (reasonable) that it can to draw in and maintain customers, my job will be impossible.

On the other hand, as a long time host in this area, there are probably hundreds of people who are familiar with my name as a host. I have been very careful to establish rapport with as many of those people as possible; if they stop me in a grocery store because they recognize me, I don't blow them off. It might take me a second to remember who they are, but my point is, they remember who I am. This causes me to believe that my job as a host, which is to build a great singer base, has been successful.

So, in short, the venue provides a comfortable, clean environment; a menu that is consistently great; servers that care about the clientele, and a client base of their own; I then complement that by bringing in a base of singers that are mature, respectful, and blend well with the venue's customer base. Our jobs then overlap and those singers who come in become part of the venue's base now, and those who are regulars at the venue then become my quasi customers as well - if I don't entertain well, run a great show, and provide a great time for everyone, I won't make it there...as we know that it doesn't take many disgruntled regulars to put pressure on an owner to get rid of something that they don't like.

I guess in short, I have customers, the venue has customers, and we have customers together. That's the ideal in my mind, and something I strive for anywhere I work.

All of the responses have been very valuable, concise, clearly defined and non-provocative.

I've enjoyed them all and look forward to additional comments of the same nature!

Am I wrong though to think the patrons are my customers too? I was actually surprised when some people said the patrons are the bars customers solely. I try to keep my customers happy or should I be saying I try to keep the bars customers happy?

The definition is, one that buys goods or services. No one is buying anything from me, but I treat them like their my customers because if I don't, I don't have a job.

Should the question be, Do you treat the patrons like their your customers too?

For me the answers - YES

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

It is my opinion that a patron of a bar is that bar's customer. If it is the fact that the bar has karaoke which has brought me into the bar, then I am the customer of the bar. That is no different than if was the fact that the bar had Steinlager on-tap which drew me into the bar. But the bar's customer can also be a KJ's customer by merely handing in a song request slip... the customer is then requesting the KJ to provide a service (playing the requested track and allowing the customer to sing).

If I were to enjoy the KJ's show and so attend his/her next gig at a different bar or if the KJ advises me he/she has a new gig and would like me to attend, then am I not a customer of the KJ? I think so. But becoming a customer of the KJ does not mean I am not also a customer of the bar.


Yes, a KJ must provide what I expect, the ability to play karaoke tracks and a means by which a person can sing to those tracks. If he/she doesn't, then there is no karaoke show. It would be good customer service if a KJ would be willing to enhance my enjoyment of the show by accommodating my (polite) requests, but there is no absolute requirement for him/her to do so.


Then the KJ is in the wrong job


Then there is no karaoke!


If the KJ can't accommodate anyone's request then what's the point of anyone filling out a song request slip?.... no karaoke!


What of it?


Why would I be there week after week?

They are technically the bars customers, however as many people like to follow certain kj's, if they are there solely because of you and would follow you no matter where you played, then they would be also considered yours as well.

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Ask yourself this question

Would SO&SO be here if I wasn't ?

There are BAR customers
There are BARTENDER customers
There are ENTERTAINMENT customers

But as a KJ you have responsibility for providing all of the customers the best service you can in the area of your employment and expertise.
If they want to sing a song...hand them a book
If they want to buy a drink ....see the bartender
If they act like idiots ---- see the bar manager and bouncer

As a KJ on the night you are working ..YOU ARE PART OF THE BAR

[quote="Lonman @ November 13th 2009, 3:42 pm"][quote="Babs @ Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:44 am"]Am I wrong though to think the patrons are my customers too? I was actually surprised when some people said the patrons are the bars customers solely. I try to keep my customers happy or should I be saying I try to keep the bars customers happy?

The definition is, one that buys goods or services. No one is buying anything from me, but I treat them like their my customers because if I don't, I don't have a job.

Should the question be, Do you treat the patrons like their your customers too?

For me the answers - YES[/quote]They are technically the bars customers, however as many people like to follow certain kj's, if they are there solely because of you and would follow you no matter where you played, then they would be also considered yours as well.[/quote]

I feel that I am a customer of both the KJ and the venue. If I'm there because I'm a regular follower of the KJ, it's highly unlikely that he will do something to cause me to avoid going back. However, if an employee of the bar is rude to me or the people that I am with or the service is lousy, that could affect my future decisions on whether or not I would go back there more often than not.

If I go to a karaoke venue because I like the bar and the regular crowd that hangs out there, then it's really up to the KJ as to whether or not I keep going back to the place or not. One of my favorite karaoke places has rotating KJ's that work there every other week. I ONLY go there when ONE of the two KJ's is working.

If the KJ that I like gets a new gig, I always show up to his new show to show that I appreciate the good job that he does on a consistant basis. I appreciate him and he appreciates me.

That's a pretty good way of looking at it... a KJ is employed by the venue, serving entertainment to the venue's customers. A barman is employed by the venue, serving drinks to the venue's customers. Either way, they are representing the venue and serving the venue's customers.

They are the bar's customers. Period. They do not come up to the KJ and plunk money down to order food and drinks from him. They are paying the bar and the bar is providing them with product, entertainment, and the expereince of being at the bar.

The people participating in Karaoke may be THE KJ's SINGERS.

But they are the BAR's CUSTOMERS and PATRONS.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

short reply but i everyone has made very good points, especially Fred and Kurt, in my opinion.

Be careful with your spending budget and get what you only need for your particular show, and maximize your time and the customers.

The customer belongs to the bar whom gets paid first and we are a only a fixure to enhance the bar, hired by the bar, paid by the bar, so BOTH BELONG to the bar, until we/they decide otherwise.

Try getting "your" singers to your house and charge them the SAME prices for drinks and your karaoke FEE and see how many show up!